Vintage 4mm 00 track

[Re6/6]

Here are a few snaps of some of my 'vintage' 4mm track.

 

First up a Gem point from the 60's

 

Some pre-war 'Bakerlite'/hard fibre and rivet pointwork. 'Repaired' in the sixties.

 

Some early 'Markway' pointwork

 

Some ABC (Allan Brett Cannon) 'Chairway' trackwork marketed by one of Ian Allan's companies in the City of London in the 60s. This was the first 'do-it-yourself' kit that I'd ever bought. The bullhead near scale finished look was quite reasonable for it's day. It was very painful on the fingers when threading onto the rail all those plastic chairs!

 

Some very early bullhead fibre and staple constuction. almost certainly pre-war.

[Enterprisingwestern]

....and Peco still playing catch up.

[Neil]

That's a pleasant trip down memory lane John. When I got back into the hobby in my early twenties I sought out second hand Graham Farish OO track as I preferred the appearance to Peco. Of course it's all long gone now, but some photos remain, perhaps it's possible to make out the track on these old photos of my long scrapped layout, Trawden.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

I remember ABC - their shop was in station approach, London Bridge. I think it's now a restaurant or some such. My earliest non-sectional track was Farish Formoway, which looked better than Streamline, but was a bit more difficult in certain respects for an early-teen, not least because the point-blades were sprung, I think, which meant you needed a lever to hold them against the spring. Streamline quickly became more popular.

 

Some older friends, building an OO layout in the late 50s, used Wrenn track with the fibre sleepers. It seemed terribly sophisticated by comparison with my Dublo 3-rail sectional stuff. Finest stuff I ever saw in those days was a friend's father's Individulay, much of which was ballasted & looked the biz, outside third rail and all. That aspect was good and bad news - his 2-PAN looked good collecting current that way, but the Schools rather less so.

[bertiedog]

The hard SRB sleepered track, with rivets, was Hamblings, usually with brass section pre-war, although steel was used after the war on cost grounds . I have two of the original jigs, found abandoned in the workshop in the 1970's.

 

Hamblings also made a version of the track with white metal chairs, inserted with a special riveting tool, but the points never officially had chairs, except if fitted around the rivets by the customer, who would saw them in half, and solder back on, or glue them into place.

 

 

The P4 18.83mm track system with rivets and wood sleepers was very similar to the older OO Hamblings.

 

In the chaired version, it was considered quality scale track, using a code 80 bull head rail section in brass or steel, because of the full chairs non scale wheels would not run on the track. Extended sleepers were made that took a third rail on raised rivets, for outer third operation, more common on scale track than inner third, which was why Steam outline continued with it longer. Inner third pickups ruin the arrangement of brakes and underside detail, whereas outer was easy to fit. Outer third started after two rail, which was developed in the 1920's, but was considered electrically to complex for reverse loops etc.

 

The trouble was the quality of the finished product depended on the customers assembly, and the standard was all over the place. The workshop assembled points were OK though, as was pre-assembled track, but to save money post war, people just bought the parts.

 

Pre-war Hamblings offered US made Mantua HO track as ready to lay track, this stopped with the war.

[Re6/6]

That's a pleasant trip down memory lane John.

 

Glad to be of service Neil! I probably should have binned it all by now.

 

Nice looking little layout. I often wish that I'd kept some of my earlier efforts. One regret is an N gauge Swiss 'rabbit warren' that I had built for my son (as you do!) that was such fun to play with. I've a couple of GF Formoway points and oddly a double slip long before Peco ever thought of one.

 

 

The hard SRB sleepered track, with rivets, was Hamblings, usually with brass section pre-war, although steel was used after the war on cost grounds . I have two of the original jigs, found abandoned in the workshop in the 1970's.

 

Stephen, thanks for the identification of the Hamblings track. It has long been a puzzle as to what is was. It came into my posession in the late 50's when I was at school in London. We had resurected the school model railway club and this stuff was found mouldering in the bottom a dark cupboard and the master asked if anyone wanted it. The club was only interested in Dublo 3-rail. So naturally I said 'yes' because even that long ago I was dissatisfied with the 'tinplate' Dublo.

[bertiedog]

The pre war fibre and staples may be Stewart Reidpath, of Herne Bay in Kent, origin, they made stamped fibre sleepers, individual ones and standard small steel staples were inserted, and flatbottom rail soldered on. This was copied from early 1930's US ideas for HO track construction at home. However, as usual, Hamblings also marketed fibre sleepers for staples, and these were probably the same S-R product, the companies shared directors and production.

 

 

Robert Lindsay in California, developed the staple idea with a special stapler that split the staple, leaving a "spike" each side of the rail section, flatbottom of course. Kemtron continued the device for may years, but it's not made nowadays.

 

There were several makers of fibre sleepers or hard SRB board sleepers just before the war, Basset Lowke and Bonds made fibre sleepers that took rivets in O gauge, and Bonds marketed OO track via W&H in London just before the war. Most O gauge track was wooden sleepered, but fibre was cheaper for mass production.

 

Most pre-war makers ,except Hamblings, expected you to build the points, the Hamblings points were the first OO more widely available.

 

The Grandad of all the 00 flexi-track was US Mantua HO, who had a complete line well before the war, and were sold in the UK by Hamblings, so this make may turn up on occasion. It resembles Farish/Wrenn, who frankly copied the design after the war. Wrenn made closing frog points to try to make the track take any 00 wheel standard.

 

The use of fibre base came from the fact that most of the makers were from the electrical part manufacturing world, and fibre sheet was a common insulator, washer, and gasket material. Farish made the fibre base sheet during the war, and used it as a cheap alternative to plastic.etc. washers, gaskets and then track base, selling the line to Wrenn.(Both Bromley, Kent, based companies).

 

Mantua had been electrical, and radio part makers, and made fibre washers, so were used to stamping fibre parts.

Fibre fell out of favour due to Wrenn, the track was mechanically very poor, and broke up to easily when damp attacked it.

 

Mr Pritchard's Peco track was superior in every way for most users.

[bertiedog]

Old advert for Mantua pre-war black fibre track parts and 1946 advert for the flexi-track. Note the different fibre stampings for two rail and outer third pickups.

 

 

[roythebus]

Remember too W&H mad fibre based track, specifically for Jim Russel's "Little Western" layout in the early 1960's, featured in RM in 1962 (?). This also used the staple method, and W&H made the bases available for general sale.

 

I used the Farish \track in the late 60's as it provided a good range, including 3 ways and double slips.

 

there was also the Fleetwood-Shaw track used on the MRC's Brampton Sands layout. This used a stamped wooden base with rails held on by clips like staples that went under the sleepers and onto the rails. On the layout, this was only secured at the board ends to allow for exhibition expansion problems. This was demonstrated admirably in the late 1970's when the BBC filmed the layout at Central Hall. The TV lights made the track expand so much the rails reached platform height!

 

Wrennmade a vast range of pointwork, including double junctions!

[bertiedog]

I think the W&H design came from the Bonds design they once marketed, and was picked up after the war by Romford , who were owned by W&H and they probably manufactured the parts. The problem with all the staple ones was the availability of the tiny staples, they were not standard office sizes.

Stapled track still works if you can find the staples and add plastic chairs to the outside. The staples grip the sleeper better than rivets or the plastic chair on it's own.

Most of these older tracks were designed with sectional use in mind, people often did not lay permanent layouts, and track was pulled up for re-use far more, basically for cost reasons and limited availability . Wrenn implied that the track could be re-bent etc., something their track could not do!! Once cut it was set to curved use only, although you could re-cut all the webs completely to re curve it or get it straight with the right sleeper spacing. The same limitation applied to Manta and Atlas fibre, you had to cut webs to get curves.

Mr Pritchard's design was so much better on curves it stole the market, Farish's Formoway never had a chance, they failed to understand marketing.

Stephen.

 

[BR60103]

I see that they supply rail in 36" lengths but price it per 100'.

I remember a mail order shop (had 2 or 4 page ads in Model Railroader) that offered 99' of rail -- I always wondered if they coiled it or what.

In 1960 my first flex track and first (Atlas) switch kit were on fiber ties. I think some of it may still be around.

[10800]

You've got the basis of a small museum there John

 

After my Triang Standard and Series 3 mixtures as a child (these were in about 1960)

 

 

 

I also moved onto Formoway when I was a teenager for my Rivarossi/US themed layout. I suppose I fell for the eternal full page ads on the back of the Modeller, although obviously the niceties of 00 and H0 escaped me at the time!

[5050]

First post for many a year! I occasionally pop in here to see if any 'gems' have turned up and the track topic is one that interests me as I too have a 'black museum' of old track. One of my star exhibits is this Wrenn Double Junction. As a wet-behind-the-ears youngster, if I had saved up 2 years or more pocket money, I might have been able to buy this but would have been extremely dissapointed to discover when I got it home that I would not be able to get it to work without lots of bonding and soldering which, in those days, I had no idea about!

 

How times have changed - but you still can't buy a complete RTR Double Junction!

[Oldddudders]

First post for many a year! I occasionally pop in here to see if any 'gems' have turned up and the track topic is one that interests me as I too have a 'black museum' of old track. One of my star exhibits is this Wrenn Double Junction. As a wet-behind-the-ears youngster, if I had saved up 2 years or more pocket money, I might have been able to buy this but would have been extremely dissapointed to discover when I got it home that I would not be able to get it to work without lots of bonding and soldering which, in those days, I had no idea about!

 

How times have changed - but you still can't buy a complete RTR Double Junction!

It even has "moveable elbows" on the crossing - how cool is that, as they say? Yes, I too was seduced by the apparent sophistication of these readybuilt formations at the time - I think they had a whole advert full of all these exotic points. True, you can't buy the whole shebang in one ready-to-plonk piece today, but I think Mr Peco will tell you his geometry allows you to build the same in Streamline - minus the swing-nosed xover, of course.

[bertiedog]

The let down was the electrics, the wiring was complex to assemble, and you had to be adept at soldering steel, and some of it, the frogs, were die-cast mazak, which does not solder well, so were left as dead frogs unless the contact between the live rail moving part made contact with the frog when closed.

 

The plus side was that all known wheel standards went through the points, and yes, Peco's geometry matches any setup better than the fixed assembly.

[roythebus]

I also remember the first "scale" track system, that made by OOscale models in York Way, Kings Cross. This used the then new finescale bullhead rail produced by the Protofour lot; brass stamped chairs, real wooden sleepers and self-adhesive granite ballast.

 

Part of my job at the shop was to sometimes work the flypress in the basement which made the chairs in 3 steps from thin brass strip. The H section bits were formed into fishplates similar to the C&L ones produced today, and some was sold as signal ladder. Very little was wasted. Kings Cross also produced a set of templates in 00,EM and P4.

 

Nice to see the historic pics of the Wrenn and Triang Series 3!