37079 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 According to the advert in Railway Modeller, this is to be the next release in 4mm scale (unless I read it wrong). You wait years for a horsebox then several come along at once... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 That sounds great, at least someone is doing the LNER horsebox. Do you know when its likely to be released? I will sell the 2x GWR horsebox's (ones BR) I picked up cheap. MArk in OZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Aye but what diagram? If one has just bought some D&S ones this is a significant issue I prefer glue to solder as I cannae burn myself.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Looks as if 2010 could be the year of the Hunt Special, finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Now this is a nice development! I shall look forward to this one. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2011 I spoke to them this morning, it'll be to LNER diagram No5, and February release date is realistic. I will very shortly be adding this to my Parkside-dedicated transfer Sheet S1, and transfers for this horsebox are also on my transfer Sheet C64 - see http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm . Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Looks as if 2010 could be the year of the Hunt Special, finally. Keep up Jon, it's 2011 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 It was started last year.... if you really want to be pedantic, the year of the Hunt Special will be 1952. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I spoke to them this morning, it'll be to LNER diagram No5, and February release date is realistic. These are illustrated with a photo and drawing in Tatlow, Peter (2000) Historic Carriage drawings Volume three: Non-passenger coaching stock. Publ. Pendragon Partnership, York, UK. ISBN 1 899816 09 7 128 pages. on Page 81. I am going to ask on the LNER yahoo group if the diag 4 is the same - from Harris, Michael (1994) LNER Carriages Publ. Thomas & Lochar, Nairn. ISBN 0-946537-98-4 160 pages it is unclear - he states the two diagrams have similar dimensions, and that diag 5 were unnumbered - whereas Tatlow shows the number series of diag 5 running on from diag 4. Parkside have announced that there is going to be a LNER horse box in 7mm. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 Was there a final diagram built in the 1950's that was similar but longer? This was before the BR one came along. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 These are illustrated with a photo and drawing in Tatlow, Peter (2000) Historic Carriage drawings Volume three: Non-passenger coaching stock. Publ. Pendragon Partnership, York, UK. ISBN 1 899816 09 7 128 pages. on Page 81. I am going to ask on the LNER yahoo group if the diag 4 is the same - from Harris, Michael (1994) LNER Carriages Publ. Thomas & Lochar, Nairn. ISBN 0-946537-98-4 160 pages it is unclear - he states the two diagrams have similar dimensions, and that diag 5 were unnumbered - whereas Tatlow shows the number series of diag 5 running on from diag 4. Parkside have announced that there is going to be a LNER horse box in 7mm. Paul Bartlett To answer my own question (and confirmed by Bill Bedford). Harris is mistaken. Diag 4 were shorter in body - do not have a lavatory, although the wheelbase is the same. I now realise there is an exceptionally nice Don Rowland photograph in Larkin, David (1978) BR General parcels rolling stock Pictorial survey. Bradford Barton Ltd, Cornwall ISBN 0 85153 320 5, 64 pages. It is on page 46, of E2242E. So Parkside have chosen the rarer vehicle, presumably because getting information about NPCS is so difficult. To answer Roger, I believe the later ones, given by Harris as 2366 - 2390 were to LMS diag 2181. It is confusing, because the LMS/LMR had three batches of these 2391 - 2460, 2461 - 2490, 2491-2510. This information is from Jenkinson, David & Essery, Bob (1991) An illustrated history of LMS coaches. I: General introduction and Non-Passenger Vehicles. Publ Haynes Publishing (Foulis-OPC) 166 pages ISBN 0 86093 450 0. I say confusing because they are clear these were all in the LNER number series, and an LNER design (they give as diag 9). Unfortunately, although clearly an LNER inspired design it has a 16ft wheelbase and is 24ft overheadstocks - so longer in all dimensions than LNER D5. Weight diagram and photographs are pages 71 - 72. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 ... he states the two diagrams have similar dimensions, and that diag 5 were unnumbered - whereas Tatlow shows the number series of diag 5 running on from diag 4. From the LNER diagram :- DIAGRAM No. 5 CODE No. 8005 No.OF VEHICLE /SPECIAL LETTERING 2336 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2337 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2338 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2339 REG DAY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2340 B.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2341 G.B.BARKING RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2342 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2343 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2344 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2345 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2346 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2347 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2348 CAPT.G.BOYD ROCHFORT RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2349 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2350 HON.G.LAMBTON RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2351 C.P.KIRK RETURN TO KENNETT 2352 CAPT.G.BOYD ROCHFORT RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2353 GEORGE R.DIGBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2354 LORD GEORGE DUNDAS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2355 LORD GEORGE DUNDAS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2356 RETURN TO LEYBURN 2357 J.G.THOMPSON RETURN TO ACKLINGTON 2358 RETURN TO MALTON 2359 'EGERTON HOUSE' RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2360 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2361 CAPT.P.WHITAKER RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2362 THE EARL OF DERBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2363 THE EARL OF DERBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2364 R.J.COLLING RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2365 MAJOR W.V.BEATTY RETURN TO NEWMARKET Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 Again, from the diagrams :- Diagram 4 : 50 built at York 1936 [Nos. 2227 to 2276 incl.] 59 built at York 1937 [Nos. 2277 to 2335 incl.] 2233 demolished in mishap at Bow 11-7-45 14'WB., 22'OH., weight 10-17-0 5'-1.5" luggage compt., 9'-9" horse compt., 6'-2" groom's compt. Diagram 5 : 30 built at York 1938 [Nos. 2336 to 2365 incl.] 14'WB., 22'OH., weight 11-12-2 3'-8.5" luggage compt., 9'-9" horse compt., 4'-6" groom's compt., 3'-0" toilet. Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 From the LNER diagram :- DIAGRAM No. 5 CODE No. 8005 No.OF VEHICLE /SPECIAL LETTERING 2336 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2337 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2338 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2339 REG DAY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2340 B.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2341 G.B.BARKING RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2342 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2343 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2344 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2345 J.L.JARVIS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2346 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2347 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2348 CAPT.G.BOYD ROCHFORT RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2349 FRANK BUTTERS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2350 HON.G.LAMBTON RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2351 C.P.KIRK RETURN TO KENNETT 2352 CAPT.G.BOYD ROCHFORT RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2353 GEORGE R.DIGBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2354 LORD GEORGE DUNDAS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2355 LORD GEORGE DUNDAS RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2356 RETURN TO LEYBURN 2357 J.G.THOMPSON RETURN TO ACKLINGTON 2358 RETURN TO MALTON 2359 'EGERTON HOUSE' RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2360 RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2361 CAPT.P.WHITAKER RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2362 THE EARL OF DERBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2363 THE EARL OF DERBY RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2364 R.J.COLLING RETURN TO NEWMARKET 2365 MAJOR W.V.BEATTY RETURN TO NEWMARKET Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/ Fantastic John... Were these individuals trainers or rich amateurs? Did the branding survive into BR days? Biil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2011 Fantastic John... Were these individuals trainers or rich amateurs? Did the branding survive into BR days? Biil Sorry - I have no knowledge other than that quoted from the LNER diagram; beyond the fact that many of the names had been subsequently crossed-out on the copy (of a copy) that I have. There is no indication when they were crossed-out. Regards, John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Fantastic John... Were these individuals trainers or rich amateurs? Did the branding survive into BR days? Biil The Earls of Derby were owners, they named the race after one of them. Google throws up C Boyd Rochfort as a trainer (rather than G) but nothing obvious on the others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Major W.V. Beatty is identified as a 'trainer' in this 1934 article http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=EP19330804.2.25.5&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- To use the term 'Major' he would have to have been one in the army and would have been well off in society terms. In the paper it doesn't refer to as 'Ret'd' (retired), so he could still have been serving at the time and may have had 'trainers' working for his stables, rather than him being the trainer as such. He is mentioned regarding races in Kentucky in 1939, so he had some standing in the industry. Whitaker and Lambton also appear on ciggarette card descriptions, but not clear of their status as either owners/trainers or both. Fascinating stuff.... Are there any account of railway operations involving horse boxes for racehorses? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 To answer my own question (and confirmed by Bill Bedford). Harris is mistaken. Diag 4 were shorter in body - do not have a lavatory, although the wheelbase is the same. I now realise there is an exceptionally nice Don Rowland photograph in Larkin, David (1978) BR General parcels rolling stock Pictorial survey. Bradford Barton Ltd, Cornwall ISBN 0 85153 320 5, 64 pages. It is on page 46, of E2242E. Paul Bartlett Another nice view here: http://www.southernrailway.net/search/display_pic.php?search_fd0=33256 Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Fascinating stuff.... Are there any account of railway operations involving horse boxes for racehorses? Bill There are probably plenty. But GWRJ no. 76 Autumn 2010 has a John Lewis Article about horsebox traffic. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2011 Lower LH door shows some writing which could be some/similar markings to those listed above. From the length of the individual words, I'd hazard a guess at RETURN TO NEWMARKET. This is, of course, a Diagram 4 example, not a Diagram 5 as per the forthcoming Parkside kit. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 As an aside John, does one have Diagram 4 details on your transfer sheets please? That nice Mr Pinnock sent me one just before Christmas... B) Its going to be interesting comparing this new Parkside with Dans auld kit. Modern plastic moulding Vs ageing but quality etching; mind, much naughtiness beckons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted January 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2011 As an aside John, does one have Diagram 4 details on your transfer sheets please? Sheet C64 - BR steam era horsebox and other NPCS lettering. Includes horsebox lettering for :- exGWR diagram N16; exLMS d.1952, d.1956, d.2125; exLNER d.4, d.5; BR d.751 (all four regions); exLNER bogie brake d.327, 4w van d.120, 6w brake d.358; exSR special cattle van d.3141; BR bogie CCT d.817 on LNER underframe; bogie CCT (no diagram) on GER underframe; bogie CCT (no diagram) on LNER underframe; bogie PMV (no diagram) on GER underframe. Lettering for 24 vehicles. 2mm., 3mm., 3.5mm. & 4mm. scale price is £6.00 S scale price is £12.00 7mm. scale price is £18.00 Gauge 1 price is £24.00 Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sheet C64 - BR steam era horsebox and other NPCS lettering. Includes horsebox lettering for :- exGWR diagram N16; exLMS d.1952, d.1956, d.2125; exLNER d.4, d.5; BR d.751 (all four regions); exLNER bogie brake d.327, 4w van d.120, 6w brake d.358; exSR special cattle van d.3141; BR bogie CCT d.817 on LNER underframe; bogie CCT (no diagram) on GER underframe; bogie CCT (no diagram) on LNER underframe; bogie PMV (no diagram) on GER underframe. Lettering for 24 vehicles. 2mm., 3mm., 3.5mm. & 4mm. scale price is £6.00 S scale price is £12.00 7mm. scale price is £18.00 Gauge 1 price is £24.00 Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. http://www.cctrans.f...uk/products.htm Thank you John A very comprehensive sheet methinks and on the wanted list. Errm that is if I'm allowed by the home authorities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have this sheet... very useful (with a bit of tweaking) for lots of similar vehicles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Major W.V. Beatty is identified as a 'trainer' in this 1934 article http://paperspast.na...---10--1----0-- To use the term 'Major' he would have to have been one in the army and would have been well off in society terms. In the paper it doesn't refer to as 'Ret'd' (retired), so he could still have been serving at the time and may have had 'trainers' working for his stables, rather than him being the trainer as such. He is mentioned regarding races in Kentucky in 1939, so he had some standing in the industry. Whitaker and Lambton also appear on ciggarette card descriptions, but not clear of their status as either owners/trainers or both. Lambton was apparently the Hon George Lambton, son of the Earl of Durham. He trained horses for the Earls of Derby from the 1890's to the early 1930's, when he was replaced by Frank Butters, who is also mentioned on John's list. Lambton died in 1945, so is a 'pre-nationalisation' trainer in railway terms, though maybe his yard continued to operate after his death- his son Edward was also a trainer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lambton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Butters To pick up on the question AberdeenBill asked about racehorse traffic (don't have access to the GWRJ article Paul mentioned at present), I'm guessing that these could have been seen pretty much anywhere that was on a route between Newmarket and the various major racecourses around the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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