orcadian Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 In Roger Harris' 'The Allocation History of BR Diesels & Electrics (3rd & Final Ed) Part Five, apparently WR wanted a fleet of 350 of them! D1074 - D1099 would have continued the 'Western -----' theme, of which D1086 Western Isle would possibly have had the shortest plate. (Would it have been used for 'specials' on the Kyle of Lochalsh line???) Then would have come 65 'River's, 26 'Star's and Constellations, followed by 9 natural disasters - including Tornado (How Hornby would have loved that!) The final hundred might have been q mixed collection of fauna - insects, birds, fish and mammals. 'Daddy, what's a Geranuk?' 'Oh it's just like a 'Phalanger - one of those nice big Western engines!' Perhaps it is just as well that Swindon quit while they were ahead! Whilst on the Swindon naming lottery theme, I wonder if the Warship names carried by Class 50 give any clues as to the names that the cancelled D600 batch might have carried. Does anyone know whether a list of those has ever come into the public domain? This sort of speculation is harmless, I think! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2011 "Western Earthquake" thundering past with a rake of stone wagons... "Western Hurricane" blasting past Ealing Broadway with a rake of commuters on their way home from work... "Western Volcano" with both Maybachs clagging on it's last duty before overhaul at Swindon.... Pity that such good photo captions will never appear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The very thought of 350 extras Wezzies existing has just turned by brain to jelly! How about ''Western Superiority''....? On a related notes, it's been mentioned in several books that while Beyer-Peacock were building the Hymeks the BR Board were all set to order another 300, on top of the 101 actually built, but as they were in the throws of going under the contract for 300+ Type 3s went to English Electric instead, hence the 309 37s built..... reality or myth, who knows! What brains I have left are now dribbling away at the thought of 401 mighty Hymeks scurrying about the WR Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 way out Western? Spaghetti western? how the western was won? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Western Minister, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles2 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The very thought of 350 extras Wezzies existing has just turned by brain to jelly! Western Euphoria Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2011 Western Sahara Western Isles Western Australia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2011 The very thought of 350 extras Wezzies existing has just turned by brain to jelly! How about ''Western Superiority''....? On a related notes, it's been mentioned in several books that while Beyer-Peacock were building the Hymeks the BR Board were all set to order another 300, on top of the 101 actually built, but as they were in the throws of going under the contract for 300+ Type 3s went to English Electric instead, hence the 309 37s built..... reality or myth, who knows! What brains I have left are now dribbling away at the thought of 401 mighty Hymeks scurrying about the WR Nidge I have always understood it be correct Nidge. What put the kybosh on it was always stated to be mainly the result of comparative trials on the South Wales Valleys between a Hymek and an EE Type 3 borrowed from the Eastern plus, of course, the BRB's strong dislike of diesel-hydraulics which was made even worse by the problems with the engines and gearboxes on the Hymeks plus the 1000s going through a rough patch of poor reliability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 GWR = Gas Works Railway, according to ex Great Central railwaymen. However in my book, the Westerns, Warships and Hymeks were stylish machines with a powerful deep engine sound. 350 ? - How about Westerns - Western Hydraulic Leak, Western Shy Torque, Western Banker, Western Deficit, Western Unemployment. Western Collapse. Rivers - Rivers of Blood, River Island, Cry me a River Stars - Iggy Pop (Loco Mosquito), Billy Idol (out of gear), David Bowie (Station to Station), Rolling Stones (19th nervous breakdown) Constellations - The Black Hole (Swindon), Hydra (The Hydraulic!!), Natural Disasters - Flood, Famine, Pestilence, The Grim Reaper. Mixed collection of fauna - insects, birds, fish and mammals. - Dung Beetle, Teradactyl (extinct), Pilchard (oily fish !!), Weasel The Diesel. Brit15 (Was a western Brit once !!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 For a Western in golden ochre livery - "Western Sandbank"? Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 This sort of speculation is harmless, I think! This is the ultimate wishlist topic! Western Rapture Western Exaltation Western Pleasure Western Ecstasy Western Coming Western O r g a s m Western Climax Western Culmination Western ######## Whoops! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernowtim Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Following the trend of naming after customers we have Western Power ,Western Greyhound and Western National,OK last 2 are bus companies,and maybe Western Independance Continuing the Deltics racehorses theme we have Western Super Mare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Western Movie? Western Shootout. Western Sunset. Western Beach. Western Main Line. Western Sunrise (that should get the pundits thinking!!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkitt Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 One of the magazines published a list of the extra "Western Something" names a few years ago, can't remember which one though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have seen that list somewhere but, like you, can't remember exactly where! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 How about Western Union? Or maybe River Phoenix, There must be lots of bad star puns... Star tMe Up Star ring in Panto Star Man Star Way to Heaven Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_stevens Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 One of the magazines published a list of the extra "Western Something" names a few years ago, can't remember which one though. According to Precision Labels website, D1074 - D1099 were to be named: D1074 WESTERN VALIANT D1075 WESTERN SCEPTRE D1076 WESTERN DIADEM D1077 WESTERN JEWEL D1078 WESTERN CROWN D1079 WESTERN VICTOR D1080 WESTERN LUSTRE D1081 WESTERN EAGLE D1082 WESTERN HAWK D1083 WESTERN FALCON D1084 WESTERN COMET D1085 WESTERN PLANET D1086 WESTERN ISLE D1087 WESTERN METEOR D1088 WESTERN ZEPHYR D1089 WESTERN MISTRAL D1090 WESTERN FLOWER D1091 WESTERN ROSE D1092 WESTERN GARLAND D1093 WESTERN EMBLEM D1094 WESTERN LEGEND D1095 WESTERN HERITAGE D1096 WESTERN FURY D1097 WESTERN RAPIER D1098 WESTERN SABRE D1099 WESTERN JAVELIN I don't have John Mayo note from Railway Modeller in 2003 to confirm Luke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Had all those extra 52s been built, would they have been kept instead of building the 56s? Whilst Br might have disliked hydraulics, a fleet of some 350 locos would be hard to justify premature binning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 Had all those extra 52s been built, would they have been kept instead of building the 56s? Whilst Br might have disliked hydraulics, a fleet of some 350 locos would be hard to justify premature binning. The whole picture would have been very different if that many 1000s had been built. First of course there would have been far fewer Brush Type 4s as the WR would not have had any and would other Regions have accepted having to have diesel hydraulics because the WR would never have found work for that many But whichever way it had gone then BR would still have been looking for a heavy haul freight diesel and what would have happened at that stage would have been very much influenced by the ability, or otherwise, to fit the 1000s for eth operation - in other words more than a lot of 'what ifs'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Western Railburner Western Brush Western Deltic Western Whistler Western Rules Western Wanderer Western Athletic Western Northwestern Western Midland Western Princess Western Spamcan Western King Western Great (Dyslexia Regiment) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 The whole picture would have been very different if that many 1000s had been built. First of course there would have been far fewer Brush Type 4s as the WR would not have had any and would other Regions have accepted having to have diesel hydraulics because the WR would never have found work for that many But whichever way it had gone then BR would still have been looking for a heavy haul freight diesel and what would have happened at that stage would have been very much influenced by the ability, or otherwise, to fit the 1000s for eth operation - in other words more than a lot of 'what ifs'? Mike I have a book (which is currently closer to Laira than I am at the moment) which has a draft Swindon drawing of a hydraulic with an altered Western bodyshell equipped with two uprated MD 870 Maybach (Hymek) engines, making it a type 5. That, if it came to fruition, would have competed with the 56. The ETH question could possibly have been answered as Swindon did carry out a feasibility study to equip the 52s with such. What a sight and sound that would have been, a type 5 hydraulic. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 From what I saw, a Western could run rings round any Diesel Electric Type 4, so maybe they should have been type 5 anyway. Maybe it was BR politics...........Shades of the early LMS when the LNWR George V and Precursors were rated Class 3 while the innefective Compounds were rated Class 4 and had to be double headed on LNWR trains that the LNWR 4-4-0s had been routinely hauling for the previous decade or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 According to Precision Labels website, D1074 - D1099 were to be named: D1074 WESTERN VALIANT D1075 WESTERN SCEPTRE D1076 WESTERN DIADEM.............. I don't have John Mayo note from Railway Modeller in 2003 to confirm Luke. I have the exact same listing from another source too. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Western Halfwit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 From what I saw, a Western could run rings round any Diesel Electric Type 4, so maybe they should have been type 5 anyway. Maybe it was BR politics...........Shades of the early LMS when the LNWR George V and Precursors were rated Class 3 while the innefective Compounds were rated Class 4 and had to be double headed on LNWR trains that the LNWR 4-4-0s had been routinely hauling for the previous decade or so. I think it was largely BR politics plus - possibly, but I don't know - pressure from certain parts of the British locomotive industry which was very diesel-electric oriented. I do know that some of the comparative figures used to make out a poor case in the DE vs. DH 'debate' were far from being a straightforward reflection of what was actually happening because instead of using costs from the one heavy maintenance depot on BR which was maintaining both types (i.e D10XX and Brush Type 4) costs were taken from another WR depot for the D10XX and a depot on another Region for the Brush design. As the two Regions accounted their overheads and main works costs on a completely different basis the figures were incompatible (and in favour of the diesel electric) before they even got down to depot costs. Going a bit further than that I was told that modification work - to deal with their multiplicity of 'teething troubles' was excluded from the Brush figures but included for the D10Xx - again due to differences in accounting methods. In other words you could have written the report's conclusions first and put the numbers in afterwards to suit what the report was meant to say before it was even written Mind you it should be noted that this information came from a WR loco engineer - but he was spot on about the fact that the ideal depot for comparison was not used and about the accounting differences so I can but assume the rest was true as well. Equally for anyone who worked with the locos in any way their comparative abilities were, I think, fairly well known with - generally - the 1000s coming out as the better of the two especially in terms of sure-footedness and sheer ability to shift tonnage. In that respect a DH did have the advantage of, in effect, having what amounted to coupled axles on each bogie thus minimising the risk of individual wheel slip and they had sanders (they also had brakes which didn't wind themselves 'on' in running to the extent of heating wheels sufficiently to loosen the tyres). But then I'm probably biased as I had a lot of experience with them as an operator PS And of course in drawing up comparative details a lot of the work was done by Derby - perhaps some things never changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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