RMweb Gold Chris Chewter Posted January 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm aiming to model the popular seawall stretch between Dawlish and Teignmouth during the late 50's and early 60's, basically BR late crest. Whilst waiting for a house with a decent sized garage for conversion, I'm massing rolling stock. One of the things that appeals is the southern diversions that ran over the route. However I'm finding the images of such diversions difficult to find. Probably because the books contain mainly BR(W) engines, so they probably thought that a Westcountry or Battle of Britain wouldn't be welcome. Basically does anyone know of photos of such diversions and what engines ran them. I'm particularly after more unusual locos rather than the well known examples spam cans which I know did the route. Book references as well as web links welcome. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2011 'Plymouth Steam 1954 - 1963 by Ian Lane contains the following images of SR locos on the GW route although none are are clearly dated 75073 1632 Plymouth - Exeter St Davids stopper (?1957) unidentified light pacific 14.15 Plymouth - Exeter St Davids stopper late 1956/early 1957 75075 (new) 11.25 Exeter St Davids - Plymouth stopper 34029 same train as above (75075), early totem on tender I have - somewhere - seen a pic of a Maunsell mogul on a GW working but can't remember which book it was. The only unusual one I can find is an SC Nash pic taken at Hemerdon on 20 Septr 1958 and showing 2 x T9s (30712 and 30716) that had come off a down SR special worked back to Exeter on the 16.32 stopper from Plymouth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 It was a requirement that if not all, some SR crews from Plymouth, and Exeter had route knowledge of the GW line between the two towns/cities, giving reason for occasional SR loco workings which have even included Exmouth Junction standard class 3 2-6-2T's. Reason enough for modeller's license ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I tried the same exercise myself a few months ago as I was looking for an "excuse" to run Southern locos on WR lines in Devon. Apart from the "route knowledge" workings i.e normally BB/WC classes on WR metals and WR moguls on SR workings not much came to light. From my extremely brief notes all I can add to what has been already stated is that the two T9's, which Stationmaster mentions were taken off the "Special", having worked the SR route from Exeter to Plymouth, and were apparently replaced by SR MN class 35023 (from the web) for the WR run from Plymouth to Exeter St D's departing at 3.35 p.m and followed by the T9's, about an hour later. As I have not found any other photographic or book or web reference to this "event" , I have treated it with scepticism and wonder if it is completely wrong. The only other photograph which appears to be "different" to those already mentioned I noted was one of a N Class Mogul on Newton Abbot Shed but the notes to the photograph stated that the working that it got there was unknown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtee More Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 There were, I understand, regular workings.. I read somewhere, possibly in Plymouth Steam 1954-63, that Stationmaster mentions, that both the Southern Region and the Western had one train each a week diagrammed to work over the others' line. This, I believe, was on a Sunday. The reason was to maintain route knowledge, in case a diversion became necessary. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2011 There were, I understand, regular workings.. I read somewhere, possibly in Plymouth Steam 1954-63, that Stationmaster mentions, that both the Southern Region and the Western had one train each a week diagrammed to work over the others' line. This, I believe, was on a Sunday. The reason was to maintain route knowledge, in case a diversion became necessary. Ian 1. They were booked workings to maintain diversionary route knowledge. 2. I doubt if they were daily on the same train but there might have been one turn every day, or several days a week on different trains. 3. The trains involved were weekday trains (I've just checked the timetable and confirmed that both the 14.15 and 16.32 from Plymouth to Exeter ran on weekdays - neither ran on Sundays). 4. What did happen on Sundays (sometimes) were real diversions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 And as if by magic, this appeared on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Colour-Rail-Slide-34063-Aller-Jct-1959-BRW-317-/190494636194?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2c5a5d78a2 Not a brilliant shot granted, but the stock looks intersting. Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted January 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2011 My reaserch has indicated that 2 trains a day in each direction were hauled by Southern locos to maintain route knowledge on the Western main line. Photographic evidence seems to indicate that these were usually stopping trains. There used to be a similar freight working but this was dropped soon after the nationalisation (although the equivilant WR working over Southern metals continued into the 60s). I have used this an excuse to get a Westcountry on my layout which is set just to the east of Plymouth on the Western mainline. I also have pictures of N class moguls at Millbay with Banana trains due to strike action at Southampton docks. I am unsure if these trains would have worked East via the Western or Southern routes though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 25, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2011 My reaserch has indicated that 2 trains a day in each direction were hauled by Southern locos to maintain route knowledge on the Western main line. Photographic evidence seems to indicate that these were usually stopping trains. There used to be a similar freight working but this was dropped soon after the nationalisation (although the equivilant WR working over Southern metals continued into the 60s). That's quite interesting as I don't remember that many in my spotting days in Plymouth in the late 50s early 60s. Maybe some only worked to/from N Abbot on locals? I was always led to believe that there were only a couple of turns a week for the whole St David's, North Road section. The book mentioned earlier and compiled by Mr Lane( a fellow school pupil) is a must for anyone from that area or modelling that area. Happy memories for any Janner of my era. I also have pictures of N class moguls at Millbay with Banana trains due to strike action at Southampton docks. I am unsure if these trains would have worked East via the Western or Southern routes though?/quote] They would have gone up from Millbay and 'turned left' past Victoria Park, on the triangle that used to be in place just west of North Road, heading over the viaduct for Devonport Junction and the LSWR route. 36E (ex 83D) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Chris Chewter Posted March 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2011 Just been doing a spot of reading on Light Pacifics when I came across one statement which made my heart sink slightly. Apparently when the light pacifics were rebuilt, they were heavier, which reduced their route availability. Now as Dawlish was open to kings, it had a double red route availability, but it then struck me that I've never seen a photograph of a rebuilt light pacific on route learning along the sea wall! A quick flick through my library plus a google and flickr search drew a blank. Anyone seen one? If not, I've got a Hornby rebuilt pacific that'll soon be going on eBay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted March 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2011 I've got pictures of them at Plymouth North Road but no indication if they used the Southern or Western route to get there. My understanding was that the rebuilds were only barred from the withered arm into Cornwall but could still make it to Plymouth via Oakhampton. This would mean they would still be viable motive power for the route knowledge turns via the Western. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 10, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 10, 2011 Just been doing a spot of reading on Light Pacifics when I came across one statement which made my heart sink slightly. Apparently when the light pacifics were rebuilt, they were heavier, which reduced their route availability. Now as Dawlish was open to kings, it had a double red route availability, but it then struck me that I've never seen a photograph of a rebuilt light pacific on route learning along the sea wall! A quick flick through my library plus a google and flickr search drew a blank. Anyone seen one? If not, I've got a Hornby rebuilt pacific that'll soon be going on eBay! According to one source Rebuilt Light Pacifics were allowed through to Plymouth over the SR route after Meldon viaduct had been strengthened in 1960 - and there's at least one published pic to prove the fact. They were permitted over the WR route from Exeter although that confirmation is from a 1963 official document. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have - somewhere - seen a pic of a Maunsell mogul on a GW working but can't remember which book it was. That rings a bell, it might eb in one of Maurice Dart's volumes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 That rings a bell, it might eb in one of Maurice Dart's volumes. Lockett collection includes 34024 Tamar Valley on the sea wall 20/4/57. GWR/SR crews had to know each others route in case of diversions. 34061 72 Squadron on 13/8/52 (R Beaton photograph) all on the sea wall SR workings onto the western were not uncommon. Some Southern crews required route knowledge to Bristol and Oxford from pregrouping days. Ivo Peters, Norman Lockett, M Yarwwod etc have several shots of SR moguls working to Bristol Temple Meads. It was a reciprical working on the GW route to Salisbury.1624/6 being the most common. Prior to this the Portsmouth - Bristol trains were worked by D15, L12 and T9 classes all seen in Ivo Peters books Southern steam to Oxford is too numerable to mention. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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