37176 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I had my rather older mother with me on a trip to the Sidcup Morrisons, had just picked her up from the railway station down the hill. She didn't have her driving license with her, and they refused to serve us, despite her looking clearly older, and myself having my ID (driving license, age 22 at the time). My crime? I had a tube of super glue in the shopping, amidst the groceries. So, they were making an assumption about your character? Where I come from, that is called deflamation. I'd have rang my lawyer there and then. (well, of course I wouldn't, but I'd have made the cashiers supervisor think I was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 My ex SWMBO works in Asda and they have the same rule 'Challenge 25'. the problem is that although the signs explaining it are plentiful and well displayed, the one thing they don't say is that if you're WITH anybody who looks under 25 they won't serve you alcohol. This is what leads to most of the grief the checkout staff get on the topic, from people in the same position as the OP. When I shop there (different branch) with my son I leave him on a seat near the checkouts with his book (He always has a book). He's not bored and I get round quicker and get a beer or two. No problem. I got asked for ID in Morrison's a while back, despite my very grey moustache and greying hair. I asked very loudly if my bus pass would do. Cue confused student on a Saturday shift who'd probably misunderstood the training "we have to ask everybody" and rapid arrival of an apologetic manager. It's a Waitrose now. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 45156 Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 Morrison's also have an overly strict policy on selling analgesics - two boxes per person - doesn't matter if they are the ones which are legally restricted to 32 tablets or not - it's two boxes per person. I had two ibuprofen and a paracetemol in my trolley the other day (legal as ibuprofen is not restricted) and was refused the paracetemol. I handed it to Mrs 45156 who was with me, we stuck the next customer bar up, and then put it through with her paying cash for it - sheer lunacy, but we got away with it. I have also occasionally been challenged on my age in Morrisons at Morecambe when buying malt whisky - I am 58 with a greying beard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I don't suppose it's got anything to do with 'second child-hood', etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2011 I remember once looking at my receipt from Sainsburys and discovered a line of text saying something like 'Cashier confirms over 21' next to Rennies, anyone tried to OD on Rennies? A couple of times when buying alcohol, the checkout 'kid', obviously under age themselves, school kid - Saturday job, looks round for the supervisor to OK the sale, can't see them so puts it through anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 There is a fine line which staff have to tread in that someone who is 17 years and 364 days one day is legally able to purchase alcohol the next day when they don't look the slightest bit different. That is why there are checks in place for those of younger ages and it is reasonable to suppose that young people might be older than they appear hence the "Under 25" policy of many stores. That applies here in Australia, where excessive alcohol consumption is a national sport, as well. What is not acceptable is any degree of humiliation or defamation. If you feel staff actions have caused you embarrassment or worse you have every right to speak with the "Duty Manager" (rather than just the till supervisor) to explain your position and that - if they fail to apologise you will happily cease shopping there, refer the matter to TRading Standards, the commercial TV stations, your MP and every blog you can find. In a similar vein it is normal here for stores to have a policy of checking your bags before you leave. There are always notices up to this effect. The usual version illustrates a typical shopping bag but I was once stopped and told to open my camera bag (just large enough to hold a point n shoot) for inspection. I was also instructed rather than asked with the words "Show me what's in there". When I pointed out to the staff member concerned that the bag was very much smaller than those they declare a right to inspect and that I considered her approach lacked a certain degree of respect she called the manager. She clearly had reason to believe I was smuggling a week's groceries (since we cannot buy alcohol or smokes in the main supermarket area under Aussie law) out in a bag that size. The manager took my comments on board, verbally reprimanded the woman concerned on the spot and I later received a $50 shopping voucher with a written apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 There is a fine line which staff have to tread in that someone who is 17 years and 364 days one day is legally able to purchase alcohol the next day when they don't look the slightest bit different. That is why there are checks in place for those of younger ages and it is reasonable to suppose that young people might be older than they appear hence the "Under 25" policy of many stores. That applies here in Australia, where excessive alcohol consumption is a national sport, as well. The issue here, though, is that I'm pushing 50 yet it appears that in theory Morrissons will not sell me alcohol if I happen to have my under 18 kids with me when shopping, which is just plain daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 It is unlawful to sell alcohol if they have good reason to suspect it is being supplied to a minor but purchase for private consumption by minors in ones' home is not unlawful. Therefore the onus is on the retailer (and their staff) to prove their suspicions beyond reasonable doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2011 .... maybe younger generations are prepared to tolerate disrespect from retailers.... Not all of them. My son was buying a game for his X-box that was age restricted and had his approved ID but the assistant wouldn't accept it and refused to say why. Instead of accepting it my son then asked to see the manager who was summoned. The manager made it quite clear that it wasn't my son's ID that was a problem it was his assistant! I asked my son how he knew what to do and he said he just did what his mother would have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 The problem lies with the interpretation of the law. As a cashier, I am supposed to judge whether a person purchasing the age restricted item is likely to be buying the item for someone under age, whether they are with them or not. If I have reason to believe they are, I can refuse the sale, even if the purchaser is obviously over the age of the restriction. Where I work the till prompts me for every item that is age restricted, be it solvent, blades, or whatever, we don't sell alcohol. Our till system has set an arbitary age of 21 for all products, even though many can be purchased at over 16, some at over 18. We are instructed to ask for ID if the person appears to be under 21. Again judgement comes into play. All the onus is on the cashier to make a judgement call ,and if you get it wrong, you could be in serious trouble. Trading standards do send in youngsters, as was said earlier, who look older to check we are doing our jobs. I've no compunction to ask someone who looks over 21 for ID if I feel I need to, so please don't get upset if this happens to you, wherever you shop. If the law said ID had to be produced to purchase these items as the norm, then we'd all get on with it and wouldn't bat an eyelid. Then cashiers wouldn't have to make those judgement calls or ask to see ID to protect themselves from a large fine and a criminal record. Put yourself in my place, what would you do? And all this for minimum wage too. :0)) Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium QWILPEN Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have to admit...on the couple of occasions where I have...or should have, felt embarrassed by a lack of proceedings [staff attitudes, etc]...the store has discovered, a rather full trolley, with fresh, frozen, etc produce, quietly abandoned for all to see at the check-out. I am quite happy to tolerate mild inconvenience, such as going elsewhere to shop..... whether the goods in the trolley ended up back on the shelves, or, spoilt and in the bin, depends on how observant a manager was? Someone would also have the problem of dealing with it...especially if it had been scanned, etc... One example of where the supermarket retail system can backfire upon itself? I find as I get older, there really is a lack of respect for the customer.....I get a sense that the 'system' imagines itself to be bigger than any one individual.... maybe younger generations are prepared to tolerate disrespect from retailers....I am not....but equally, I don't see why I should have to go to the inconvenience of having to complain...but 'complain' I do! The 'grumpy old men' thing really is true....we're all so much more cynical for society's own good. I've been in this position myself more than once, and I agree whole heartedly that I am the customer, the Customer is King , if I'm not being treated like a king then I walk leaving whatever I had in my trolley, on the conveyor or even in carrier bags, if I haven't paid it's not my problem. I take my hard earned cash to where I feel more welcome. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 The issue here, though, is that I'm pushing 50 yet it appears that in theory Morrissons will not sell me alcohol if I happen to have my under 18 kids with me when shopping, which is just plain daft. Clearly of a similar age group, its a bit poor when you think you've got past all the 'Oi!, you eighteen sonny?' from landlords etc, that you now have to wait till yer kids are eighteen before yer allowed to buy some pop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Morrison's also have an overly strict policy on selling analgesics - two boxes per person - doesn't matter if they are the ones which are legally restricted to 32 tablets or not - it's two boxes per person. Ditto Wilkinson's, so if you're determined enough to OD you'll just plan ahead and go to several shops. It's got b*gger all to do with stopping you doing that and everything to do with the chance of litigation I've been in this position myself more than once, and I agree whole heartedly that I am the customer, the Customer is King , if I'm not being treated like a king then I walk... It's not even that. I dont expect to be treated like royalty, but a fair amount of shop staff have a problem treating customers like fellow humans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's not even that. I dont expect to be treated like royalty, but a fair amount of shop staff have a problem treating customers like fellow humans And vice versa. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 At the risk of getting a few backs up, I will say that anybody who genuinely believes that a shop will miss their individual custom because they walked out when a cashier asked them for ID is seriously kidding themselves... Sorry but as somebody says above, you're on minimum wage. When thats the case you're not paid to think, you're paid to do your job. I'm afraid I would always put my desire to finish my shift on the right side of the law above anything else. And whoever coined the phrase "the customer is always right" clearly never had a job where they had to deal with said customers. Sorry folks, thats the system that tends to be worked to. I'm sure the smaller local businesses would be very grateful for the custom of any supermarket desserters out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So minimum wages excuses bad service? it just shows that shops (not the cashiers), do not want to provide a proper service, they simply do not train counter staff properly. The cashier is not responsible for, or paid to deal with, the situations that arise, what is failing is the teaching of the very simple task of passing on the query to a more responsible member of staff. It needs system training, a simple to follow way of passing on the query, without "arguing the toss" which is the usual attitude. Customers do not help, they either fail to respond and accept the appalling service or rise to the bait and argue with the cashier. If all queries were passed on to management it would help by bringing the idiocy of such referrals to an end as they would be snowed under, but at the moment the Supermarkets hope that these issues are swept under the carpet, and allow the situation to continue as it is cheaper to do it that way. The local manager of a supermarket stated to me that the company expected the cashier to "absorb" the queries, to save "bothering" the management.............is it any wonder that the UK has such a bad reputation for service and the lack of it. Make absolutely sure that you stand up for legal rights to service, the shops can demand other conditions that are reasonable from the customer, so make sure you comply, but as part of the bargain they must offer more, you keep them in business, you pay the wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 ...that is called deflamation.... What, the removal of flames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I don't/didn't for one moment consider that Tesco would have missed my custom one iota...... that really wasn't the object of the exercise at all.... the object of my leaving trolley-loads of[unpaid-for] shopping was to make ME feel better....better for knowing that, having been abused as a customer, I could be satisfied that I was not going to rub salt in the wounds by also paying out loadsadosh regardless of how I am treated. In the end, the inconvenience was to the lower management, who had to deal with the goods... I apply this dictum where-ever I part with my hard-earned, for goods or services..... it really is a shame more people don't vote with their feet as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richandhiscatagain Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The trouble is, we're (I should hope) all law abiding citizens who bring up their children in a responsible way. You don't have to read the shock headlines in the tabloids to find out what goes on in some sections of society - just talk to a social worker. Adults buying drink just for their children and their mates is probably more widespread (I seem to remember a report to this effect from the police) than most of us realise. Unfortunately supermarkets alone can't stop this, but I suppose they just have to be seen to be trying in some way, as with the two boxes of paracetamol etc rule (might not as stupid a rule that one as you think, it might at least stop someone doing something stupid on the spur of the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Popped into the Bath branch of Morrison's Saturday evening. As many here know, I collect, if that is the right expression, bottled beers. Picked up a few that I hadn't yet tried and when I got to the checkout, they refused to serve me. This was because, so I was told, I had my children with me. Morrison's policy the checkout woman told me. So to make a mockery of this policy, I sent the kids out to the car and then I was served. Is it me, or is this taking things too far. May make sense if a group all look to be around 18 and only one has ID, but when it is a parent........... Interesting stuff, just having got in from eight hours of being the other side of the fence. This is coming from the orange team's teachings btw, Morissons have a reputation in our town of being rather easy for under 18s to obtain stuff they shouldn't Julian, what happened to you at Morrisons is pure lunacy, and shouldn't have occurred on several levels. If you'd have been buying loads of WKD and Sourz, then I'd have questioned you on its intended drinker. But beers, and bottled too (assuming "traditional" beers), nah not a chance. Common sense there. Incidentally, if a group of teenagers are in the shop, then one goes to pay with the others having left, we won't sell it unless we can see the ID of the others in the group. Sometimes it is genuinely innocent to visit the cashpoint or whatever, but 9 times out of 10, the walkers are under 18, and the 18 year old leaves with nothing. The Think 25 policy in operation basically says if the customer is under 25 and they are buying an age restricted product then they are asked for proof of age. The example often quoted is a group of girls with make up and nice hair etc, ready to go out in town. Are they 16, 18 or 21? Often it is genuinely hard to tell, and 25 is deemed a safe margin that someone who looks over the age, isn't going to be under the upper limit (18). I ID'd someone today, and was surprised they were 25. I'd have said more like 19... I really don't understand why people over 25 keep getting ID'd and appearing in the paper - surely the concept of proof of age is one of the basics? Training is refreshed every 6 months, too If a cashier is cought by trading standards selling to underage, potentially they, their supervisor/manager, the store manager and the company could be penalised. The issue with Rennies showing up as age restricted is because all items are categorised - they come under medication on the system. Same result with teaspoons coming under cutlery - because knives do too, it flashes up as restricted. Oh, and don't get me started on poor customer service... Hopefully this helps to clear up where we are coming from, and some of the background to what may appear odd procedures jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the strict observance of fools. It's an old saying but more relevant today than at any time ever. And what's that about age-restricted party poppers? You had to be 16 to buy them when I was a lad...! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2011 But there is no age restriction on purchase of teaspoons therefore no shop may lawfully try to impose one. One customer will not be missed. Ten likewise. A hundred might be noticed. A thousand and there will be a change of management or policy at least. It is also well said that it takes ten good reports to cancel one bad one and I have no problem whatsoever with advertising substantiated cases of poor service or dubious policies by making full use of the internet. It starts with one person. Or in the attributed words of one M. Gandhi "The journey of a thousand miles starts with one step". My customer service maxim has always been that "The customer may be mistaken, misguided or misled but they are never wrong". I apply that equally no matter which side of the "counter" I am on, and for most of my working life it has been both sides. If you don't like the service then in most places we have a reasonable alternative; try that instead and write to the offending establishment explaining why you have shifted you allegiance. Send back your loyalty card to reinforce the point; why do you think they run these schemes anyway? And don't be afraid to tell others. On this forum we have feedback for many shops within our hobby remit; it doesn't take much to get something going on Facebook (for example) highlighting a substantiated reason why you feel Morrisons (in the OP's case) deserve to be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Oh dear. I remember trying to buy some beer in Moose Jaw. We finally said to hell with it and waited till we got to Medicine Hat. Ontario was even sillier with booze and beer in separate shops. Ah, in Alberta where you couldn't even get a glass of wine with your meal on a Sunday. Happy days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Morrison's also have an overly strict policy on selling analgesics - two boxes per person - doesn't matter if they are the ones which are legally restricted to 32 tablets or not This is also one of my annoyances. Analgesics are one of those things (there are a few ) that are cheaper in the UK. I'd much rather spend 19p on a box of paracetamol than the equivalent of nearly 5 pounds. However, having to pick up a couple of packets every time I go in the shop is annoying. I can't even got to a pharmacy and buy 250 like you used to be able to. Another example of total insanity - given that 16 paracetamol is more than enough to cause liver damage. Sadly, this whole topic is indicative of the way that things seem to be going. We are all being penalised because of a minority of irresponsible people. Some people have an absolutely astounding lack of common sense - and it seems that we are duty bound to protect them from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2011 The issue with Rennies showing up as age restricted is because all items are categorised - they come under medication on the system. Same result with teaspoons coming under cutlery - because knives do too, it flashes up as restricted. But there is no age restriction on purchase of teaspoons therefore no shop may lawfully try to impose one. Jo didn't say that there was a restriction on selling teaspoons - just that their automated till puts all items of cutlery into one category and as that category also includes knives they get a warning on the till - cancel the warning and carry on serving the customer which is the same as the issue with the Rennies medication. The point here is that they need a different way of flagging up what is and isn't restricted - each item is individually recorded on the system for description and price and so it should be possible to add a warning to only those items that are really restricted. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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