scottishlocos Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi all I am proposing to build a model railway based on this line but have a few questions about the operation of the line, Firstly what motive power was used and which type of wagons and freight was carried? Secondly was there any restrictions on the number of wagons and were brake vans used? can anybody help with pictures of the line in operation or where i could obtain a trackplan? I am looking at the period from 1980 until 1984 when the line closed Many Thanks Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hmmm, when I used to loiter around there it was the 06 that also worked as yard pilot down at the station. 06008 being - IIRC - the most common performer. 16T minerals laden with scrap were the traffic I recall. Sadly, not so much on RailScot though: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imagesearch.php?textfield1=kirkcaldy&exactfield1=&location1=location1&textfield2=&exactfield2=&location2=location2&textfield3=&exactfield3=&location3=location3&alloptions=&photographer=&daterange=ignore&sd=10&sm=02&sy=2011&ed=10&em=02&ey=2011&d=10&m=02&y=2011&d=10&m=02&orderby=publicon+desc%2C+recno+desc&Search=Search Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi Thanks for the reply already had a look there do you know where the scrap had come from and was going to? The local industries seem to be the flour mill and coal would still have been a major traffic in Fife at that time. kind regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi My lecturer at Kirkcaldy tech(1980s) was known by the nickname of "cod", he used to work the harbour branch, they were restricted to two loaded wagons at a time due to the incline (1 in 21) but one fatefull day in a rush to get finished the maximum load was acceded, the loco and wagons rebounded of the specially reinforced concrete buffer stop (after an earlier incident had demolished the previous buffer stop,and the loco ended up in the harbour) he jumped off the engine and ended up in the water - hence the nickname cod. I would imagine that there must have been a restriction when trains were accending the harbour branch incase of a loss of traction, but I dont know. I also recall an old photograph of Hutchinsons flour wagons at Kirkcaldy harbour from somewhere. The local paper The Fife Free Press may have archive photos of this. Hope this random information is of some help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2011 somehow managed to miss this! RCAHMS has some pics taken in 1976 by john hume - maybe a bit early for you, but certainly showing the harbour rails in their more rationalised form http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/79888/details/kirkcaldy+the+path+ravenscraig+maltings/ and more here http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/52938/details/kirkcaldy+dock+and+harbour/ at www.old-maps.co.uk the only one in your period is a 1:10000 from 1983, which though not as detailed does show how the trackwork was cut back - basically down onto the main pier and back towards hutchison's silo. the latest 1:2500 is 1951, but details the track well, then just a case of picking out which lines were left, by comparing to the 1983 map? (try co-ordinates 328610, 692040) hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 The loco that ended up in the water was an ex-NBR J88 tank engine. There are several photos of it being recovered. The crane that lifted it back onto the quayside was hauled down the branch by 3 other J88s. Try Steam in Scotland by Cross and Anderson for the pictures. In one of them you can see a diver sitting on the dock complete with classic brass diving helmet. Lovely stuff. The only other locos that I have seen pictures of on the branch are, as 'Chard mentioned, class 06 shunters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmc Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi, the only photo I have seen of this branch in the time period you mentioned was in a small book called Scottish Freight Only Branches. It shows a Class 20 with a few of those bogie Polybulk wagons on the branch, I think the date was 83 or 84. Not sure if I still have the book, will have a look. Hope this is of help, James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Hi, the only photo I have seen of this branch in the time period you mentioned was in a small book called Scottish Freight Only Branches. It shows a Class 20 with a few of those bogie Polybulk wagons on the branch, I think the date was 83 or 84. Not sure if I still have the book, will have a look. Hope this is of help, James jamesmc Could the photo you refer to be of the line between Thornton Junction and Cameronbridge as that traffic was going into Cameronbridge Distillery at that time. The polybulks were emptied by a portable grain elevator into a lorry in Cameronbridge Station yard and driven in to the distillery grain intake. A class 20 and a few loaded polybulks going down a 1 in 21 incline sounds well dodgy ( I refer to my previous post ), but then again I have not seen the photo and you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg06003 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I've dug out my copy of 'Scottish Freight Only Lines' and it does indeed show 20223 propelling a couple of 58t polybulks back up the branch. The caption states that at that date (22/7/83) the traffic was seasonal only. The branch closed in October the following year. I've also seen footage of the last known working on the line - also a 20. I think it was in the railways of Scotland video series - volume 1. The 'Thornton Railway Days' book has a couple of pages on the branch. It states that it originally served four customers - Hutchisons Floor mills; McIntiosh cabinet works; a stone dressing yard and an electric power station. A Kirkcaldy Harbour pug also worked the branch. Although I passed it many times in the train I only remember seeing it being worked once - and the details escape me. Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi all Thanks for the replies very usefull information indeed so far I have the following information i have seen the video refered to and it shows a single class 20 with no wagons. However i have had it confirmed by others that class 20's with polybulks did use the line, the only other picture i have seen shows a class 06 with open wagons can anybody confirm what was loaded into the open wagons and if this traffic lasted into the 1980's it has been suggested it was scrap metal. kind regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hi all Thanks for the replies very usefull information indeed so far I have the following information i have seen the video refered to and it shows a single class 20 with no wagons. However i have had it confirmed by others that class 20's with polybulks did use the line, the only other picture i have seen shows a class 06 with open wagons can anybody confirm what was loaded into the open wagons and if this traffic lasted into the 1980's it has been suggested it was scrap metal. kind regards Dave Scottishloco`s I can confirm scrap metal was being exported by Thomas Muir Ltd of Kirkcaldy in the early 80`s, the scrap was piled up on the key until there was a few hundred tonnes, when the ship arrived the load was sitting on the keyside ready for loading. 16t mineral wagons were used to bring in the scrap metal from his yard which was located roughly at the start of the harbour branch. The only loco`s I saw working the branch were the class 06, although I would have loved to see a class 20 with two loaded polybulks decending the 1 in 21 incline harbour branch in the rain - did the driver throw an anchor out the cab door to stop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Thanks for that info Lochty no more the class 06 class 20 mystery is one I am trying to solve so far i have the info you provided that class 06's were used and there are a few pics of them on the harbour however the line closed long after the 06's were withdrawn 1980-1981 the branch survived until 1984 the video with the class 20 is the final working so locos other than 06's must have worked down the line in that period. In addition polybulk wagons are airbraked and the loaded wagons went up the hill but still may have been difficult to stop also given the gradient brake vans were probably used even with airbraked wagons if anybody knows for sure and his pics please post or contact me. kind regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Dave The polybulks on the Kirkcaldy harbour branch were heading to Cameronbridge Distillery (Windygates, Fife), The grain was imported by coaster from Norfolk to Kirkcaldy harbour. Logic would determine that the locomotives collecting the polybulks from the harbour were the same ones delivering them to Cameronbridge (a distance of about 8 miles as the crow flies) the trains ariving at Cameronbridge were normally a class 20 with 5 or 7 polybulks, occasionally a class 27 was the motive power used. I assume these trains went directly to the distillery and not via Thornton yard. I am now going on a trawl of websites to see if I can confirm this Photographically ( always more reliable than the human mind ). Hope this helps to confirm the motive power used 1980 - 84. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishlocos Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hi Thanks again Lochty No more your information is most valuable the loco would have collected the wagons propelled them up the incline and then would procede to cameron bridge for unloading and then onto Thornton or back to Kirkcaldy. Also has a class 08 ever worked down the line I know when the 06's finished on the Auchmuty branch it was 08's that took over. i am aware that this was prob due to the low bridge tho. I purchased a class 20 at the Glasgow show and one of the older type grain hoppers shame polybulks not out in OO. regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Kirkaldy harbour branch is a great subject for a model, regret not paying any notice of it when it was open. I`ve got a mate in Kirkcaldy he may have some photo`s - report back soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormalforFife Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hello there, Can add one snippet of information in that I recall the yard at Kirkcaldy station being full of Polybulks when passing through there during the early 1980s. Presumably, these were brought up the Harbour Branch, singly, or in pairs, and assembled into rakes within the yard for onward transit to Windygates ? Regards, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Some photo`s of Kirkaldy Harbour, courtesy of Peter Westwater this will give you some idea of how steep this branch was ( you would think twice of going down there on a bike ) the original bridge the pug that fell in and how they fished it out and finally how they got the crane out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Kirkcaldy harbour sidings ( Photo`s courtesy of Peter Westwater ) Class 06 at Kirkcaldy Harbour triangle ( the points were lifted and re used on the Lochty railway ) The Kirkcaldy town council pug at the harbour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochty no more Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just found another photo from the same source, hope its of interest Class 06 before TOPS ( note the canvas over the radiator, a feature on many 1960`s photo`s of shunters )this is heading out of Hutchison`s flour mill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 26, 2012 what a fantastic set of pics lochty! especially love the top view of the branch showing the incline and the crane being sent back up - i bet that was real squeeky-bum time! some pics at RAILSCOT: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=kirkcaldy%20harbour and one of the warning sign at the top: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=28131 fascinating pics of a branch that doesn't get much coverage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 LTM - those are simply awesome, the swimming pug is incredible. And lo! what do I see - LGW cottages being tripped over the main road! Brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I agree, these are great photos Lochty. Thanks for posting (and to Mr Westwater). I've only just found this topic or I would have contributed earlier... yes, 08s did work down the harbour branch. Here are some snaps from 11 May 1979. Judging by the shadows it was mid-afternoon. First of all Kirkcaldy goods yard looking busy, 20111 had just brought a lengthy train of open wagons in from the north; 08441 was the pilot; although it's May there's a nip in the air and the guard has the fire on in his van. 08441 heads off north, and enquiries reveal it's harbour-bound. Can't miss that! After some searching I find where the branch starts, a little further north. No-one's around. An open gate beckons to where the harbour branch descends. (Truthfully, I can't remember if it was an open gate or if I bunked a wall, but in the '70s the worst a laddie in spectacles with an obsolete camera could expect from working adults was a telling off. The local wild men might have been another story! All the windows in the adjacent derelict mills had been smashed long since). The notice board at the top of the branch dates from 1908, but it's freshly painted. Half way down the branch is an odd little light-grey shed squeezed into the side of the right-of-way. This seems long disused, but judging by the O.S. 25-inch map, this was once the siding for East Bridge Flour Mill. The siding (on the level) had a trailing connection to the branch as it descended to the harbour, worked by a two-lever ground frame. At the back of the shed the siding splits into two very short dead ends, for wagon storage presumably. Scramble down the embankment for a photo. Back up on the branch and continue down the hilll past the shed. Suddenly there's a soft noise in the distance, and a brakevan looms into view, almost silently, a muffled purring somewhere behind it. I keep well to the side as it rolls past up the hill, followed by three 20-ton grain hoppers. (The wee hut on the right was presumably for a shunter's use in poor weather; the ground frame was in the open slightly down the hill) The purring grows louder, but not loud... 08441 passes, the crew nodding a greeting as they go by, off (I assume) back to Kirkcaldy yard where the wagons would be tripped to Cameron Bridge by a class 20. Shame I was too late to catch it at the harbour, but that's how it goes! I'm hungry... time for a poke of chips and a can of Coke somewhere before heading home. So much for the nostalgia... I'd totally forgotten about these photos until I came across this topic so thanks for raising it. I had no idea then that the harbour branch was once so extensive, as seen in the 1913 map. I have the feeling the NBRSG Journal covered the branch, and other Kirkcaldy sidings, in some detail a few years back... can any one confirm? Good luck with your model Scottishlocos! Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 26, 2012 what a fantastic post graham. thank you, not just for the pics, but the narrative too. excellent stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Have you come across a layout called Dubbiside by Allan Goodwillie, now well known as leader of the Burntisland 1883 team? This started in the 1970s as a small model based on Kirkcaldy harbour. I remember seeing it inan exhibition somewhere in Fife in the 1970s and being very impressed by the standard of the buildings and the overall atmosphere of the model. It has since grown and has been used for illustrations in Scalefour News quite often. If you can track down Allan I am sure he could help. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 There was a very good article in the North British Study Group Journal a couple of issues back that gave a detailed account of the two locos that went into the water. A lot of information was provided on the working and shunting of the various sidings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.