Kirkcaldy Harbour Railway

[Lochty no more]

I agree, these are great photos Lochty. Thanks for posting (and to Mr Westwater).

 

I've only just found this topic or I would have contributed earlier... yes, 08s did work down the harbour branch. Here are some snaps from 11 May 1979. Judging by the shadows it was mid-afternoon.

 

First of all Kirkcaldy goods yard looking busy, 20111 had just brought a lengthy train of open wagons in from the north; 08441 was the pilot; although it's May there's a nip in the air and the guard has the fire on in his van.

 

08441 heads off north, and enquiries reveal it's harbour-bound. Can't miss that! After some searching I find where the branch starts, a little further north. No-one's around. An open gate beckons to where the harbour branch descends. (Truthfully, I can't remember if it was an open gate or if I bunked a wall, but in the '70s the worst a laddie in spectacles with an obsolete camera could expect from working adults was a telling off. The local wild men might have been another story! All the windows in the adjacent derelict mills had been smashed long since).

 

The notice board at the top of the branch dates from 1908, but it's freshly painted.

 

 

Half way down the branch is an odd little light-grey shed squeezed into the side of the right-of-way. This seems long disused, but judging by the O.S. 25-inch map, this was once the siding for East Bridge Flour Mill. The siding (on the level) had a trailing connection to the branch as it descended to the harbour, worked by a two-lever ground frame. At the back of the shed the siding splits into two very short dead ends, for wagon storage presumably. Scramble down the embankment for a photo.

 

 

Back up on the branch and continue down the hilll past the shed. Suddenly there's a soft noise in the distance, and a brakevan looms into view, almost silently, a muffled purring somewhere behind it. I keep well to the side as it rolls past up the hill, followed by three 20-ton grain hoppers. (The wee hut on the right was presumably for a shunter's use in poor weather; the ground frame was in the open slightly down the hill)

 

 

The purring grows louder, but not loud... 08441 passes, the crew nodding a greeting as they go by, off (I assume) back to Kirkcaldy yard where the wagons would be tripped to Cameron Bridge by a class 20.

 

 

Shame I was too late to catch it at the harbour, but that's how it goes! I'm hungry... time for a poke of chips and a can of Coke somewhere before heading home.

 

So much for the nostalgia... I'd totally forgotten about these photos until I came across this topic so thanks for raising it. I had no idea then that the harbour branch was once so extensive, as seen in the 1913 map. I have the feeling the NBRSG Journal covered the branch, and other Kirkcaldy sidings, in some detail a few years back... can any one confirm?

 

Good luck with your model Scottishlocos!

 

Graham

Do you mind if I forward these photo`s to Pete Westwater, I am sure he would find them as interesting as I do. Here is another of Pete`s photo`s of a Hunslet ( TOPS class 05 ) on the Kirkcaldy harbour branch

[scottishlocos]

Hi all

 

Thanks a million times for these pics and info sadly the Kirkcaldy harbour branch inspired layout is on a backburner at the moment the good news is that the polybulks are going

to be done by Bachmann!

 

kind regards

 

Dave

[keefer]

i'm unsure as to the copyright malarkey with this, so if anyone knows it's a bad 'un, i'll remove it.

 

rather early for the OP's timescale, but 1969 sectional appendix entry for the harbour branch. i suppose alterations will have been made subsequently, but the basic principles remained the same (c.f. the 1908 notice posted previously!)

 

 

btw 'table F' referred to propelling trains or vehicles outside station limits and any conditions that applied:

 

"Kirkcaldy Harbour G.F. to Kirkcaldy Harbour

From Kirkcaldy Harbour sdgs. to Top of branch - single line - Freight vehicles without brake van in front."

 

it would seem a brake van would be needed down the hill, but not up - however i don't know if this still applied later with fitted stock (either air or vacuum)

[Graham R]

Do you mind if I forward these photo`s to Pete Westwater, I am sure he would find them as interesting as I do.

I'd be delighted... thanks for bothering to ask! Please pass on our appreciation of his photos.

[Lochty no more]

Some more of P. Westwater`s Kirkcaldy harbour photo`s

[Ian Kirk]

Hi All,

A really interesting topic. One of my train watching places from the late 50s onwards. I am a native of Kirkcaldy, a pal of Pete Westwater, I met him as a slightly older teenager in our local model shop (Lomond Cycles) about 1960.My memories of the harbour are mainly pre 1970 by which time I was married and away from Kirkcaldy. I saw the loco being lifted out of the harbour, my parents and I formed part of the large crowd who watched from the other side of the basin. I missed the diver going down though, they did it on a Sunday, and my Grandmother insisted I go to Sunday School first.I claim that this put me off organised religion.

The harbour was supposedly out of bounds but facinating to small boys with an interest in railways. If only I had had a camera.. by the time I got a decent camera things were less interesting. When the J88s worked the branch there were also steam cranes IIRC 3of them.They had corrugated iron bodies painted a pale green and as they had standard buffers and drawgear they could also shunt wagons. By the time the Hunslets took over the cranes had been replaced with a couple of rubber tyred diesel cranes and a tractor. I don't think that brake vans came down the branch at this time (it would be another 20T to push back up.) The J88s only took 4 loaded wagons and were always at the bottom end.

The other end of the branch, on the main line would make an interesting model too. Kirkcaldy Harbour Branch Sidings had its own very small signal box. This was built into the banking at the bottom of what was then my Uncle's garden in Balsusney Road. It was locked out at the weekends but open when the sidings were in use.Standing behind it, practically on the roof was a great spot to watch trains. There were two pilots, Kirkcaldy and Harbour branch. The Harbour branch pilot worked up and down the branch and shunted the sidings top and bottom. The Kirkcaldy Yard pilot shunted at the station but also did trip workings to the Branch sidings. This working from Kirkcaldy station on the down line pulled past the signal box then reversed over the trailing connection at the North end where there was a diamond crossing over the up main line and into the sidings. there were a series of loops so he could place his brake van into the departure loop, put the wagons into the harbour down loop then run through a clear loopto join the train of wagons which had been brought up the branch which when the line was clear departed as a tripworking to Kirkcaldy yard. While this went on I was of course able to watch the passing coal trains, J38/35/36/37 WD and the passenger D11 D49 D30 D34 Bi V2 A2 etc. we shall not see their like again. sic in transit gloria mundi

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Ben Alder]

Kirkcaldy, like everywhere else, is a sad shadow of what it used to be. I have often thought that modelling some aspect of it would make an interesting project- the "lang toun" applies as much to its railway as the burgh though and I don't think a complete representation is within most folks reach, but there are a lot of possibilities there. Time............ that diminishing jewel.

[Lochty no more]

Good to hear from Ian Kirk, some more little gems courtesy of Peter Westwater

[Ian Kirk]

Hi,

 

I have always thought that some bits of Kirkcaldy would make a good model but then I am prejudiced as a lot of the "viewpoints" which could make railway scenes were where I watched the real railway as a small boy. Stands to reason that if I ever built the model it would have to be set in the late 50s, the time when I was just old enough to go places on my own which probably made looking at trains more exciting than it ever was again. A couple of great photos in the last posting. Pete and I are not quite as old as all that so he must have got the last two from somewhere else. The steam cranes are as I remember them though but not quite. Memory must have failed as I thought they had buffers and drawgear but can't see that in the photos. I do remember them moving wagons though perhaps, pulled with a chain? Which may have misled me, I was very little at the time. The ship in the photos is one of the Coast Lines. (Black funnel with white V pattern) The Coasters had names like "Fifeshire Coast" Morayshire Coast" and were regulars at Kirkcaldy. In the late 50s a three masted sailing ship (presumably with auxilary engines) called regularly with timber probably pit props. Norwegian flag and IIRC called the "Pax".

I have found a few photos of the harbour probably in the 70s and will try to put them up but computers are a mystery to me so we will see what happens.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Graham R]

These are great photos, the grain unloading facility next the dock is fascinating.

 

Do you know what the wee hut with the access stair and the overhanging eaves at the foot of the incline was for?

 

thanks again for posting these...

Graham

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Wonderfully evocative photos......

 

I remember my parents thinking I had got lost on the day I decided to walk round all the bits of Kirkaldy Harbour.

 

I only had an instamatic at the time - so the phots are long gone.

 

Thanks

[Ian Kirk]

[.Graham asked.

 

Do you know what the wee hut with the access stair and the overhanging eaves at the foot of the incline was for?

 

We called it the signal box. Odd really as the only signals I can remember were the ones at either end of the swing bridge over the dock entrance. (just behind where I took the last photo from). and they were altered by hand when the bridge was swung. I presume that there was some communication from here (the little building) with the proper signal box at the top sidings as the signalman there would not want a train coming up if he had the trip engine in that end of the sidings. Once the loco and wagons left the harbour to tackle the 1in20 he would certainly not want to stop and would have to go straight into the sidings. One of Pete's photos shows how steep the last bit was. I am afraid that don't know how the branch was worked (as a long siding or as a proper branch with one engine in steam or even if there was a tablet for the hill section) I must try and find out.

 

Hutchisons are still operating using road transport and there is some talk of dredging the harbour to allow small vessels use it again to deliver grain. This is opposed by the owners of the Marina style flats which now fill up the landward half of the site but I believe that the Ports Authority still own the water and the wharves.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Graham R]

I am afraid that don't know how the branch was worked (as a long siding or as a proper branch with one engine in steam or even if there was a tablet for the hill section)

 

It was one engine in steam, covered in Keefer's earlier post in this thread. But what you say about phoning before sending the train up the hill would make a lot of sense. I suppose there must have been a train staff - the ground frame at the mill siding half way up had two levers, which I think would be one for the points, and one to lock the frame normal, which the staff would unlock. It's interesting that the sectional appendix makes no reference to yard working at the harbour itself, since from what you say the steam cranes would have been moving around and shunting.

 

What was carried in all the sheeted open wagons in some of the Peter Westwater photos earlier in the thread? I assume it was being landed at Kirkcaldy not shipped out? Fertilizer? Moulding loam for the foundries?

 

cheers

Graham

 

Edit: there's also a nice shot of the swing bridge signal you mention in another of Keefer's earlier posts linking to the RCAHMS site. It looks like McKenzie & Holland equipment. There's also two good photos of Hutchison and LGW grain hoppers.

[Lochty no more]

Some more of Pete Westwaters photo`s of Kirkcaldy harbour

[BernardTPM]

Nice 101 - looks just like my MINIX one!

[Graham R]

I have a trip notice for 1975 (a bit before the OP's era, but it's the only one I have) for the Fife area, which has this for Kirkcaldy:

 

 

(AMC means controlled by Area Manager)

 

It's interesting that two pilots are listed, one double-shifted and one single-shifted... also that the pilots are noted as stabled at the harbour sidings (presumably at the junction, not the harbour itself, since only five minutes is allowed for the trip to the station). I am not sure I totally believe this, I seem to recall the pilot was always tucked in the siding next the signalbox at the station when not in use... but maybe I am remembering late not mid 70s. (Similarly, the Dundee harbour pilot is noted as "immobilised overnight at the harbour Monday to Friday", whereas I'm pretty sure it returned to the shed every evening, not just at weekends.)

 

Does anyone know for sure whether the Kirkcaldy 06s were stabled at the harbour sidings in 1975?

 

regards

Graham

[Bon Accord]

As an addition to this thread, as of last year shipping movements carrying grain have resumed to/from Kirkcaldy harbour on a regular basis. Alas the onward shipment now moves by road!

[keefer]

i was aware there was the proposal to do this, as last year they spent a while dredging the harbour. as has been mentioned, the owners of the neighbouring apartments might not be too happy! there has been talk on and off for at least the last 20 years about the harbour being turned into a fancy marina with dining, bars, shops etc., but the only thing to come of it was the posh flats.

[keefer]

talk on another thread reminded me of the signalling record society, in particular the ScR notices published there:

 

http://www.s-r-s.org.../brscotsig.html

 

in there is a 1980 resignalling notice for kirkcaldy: http://www.s-r-s.org...0-kirkcaldy.pdf

 

it mentions that there will be a new kirkcaldy box opposite the former sinclairtown box and that:

 

"The Kirkcaldy Harbour branch single goods line is worked in accordance with the One Train Working

Regulations as contained in the General Appendix, Train Staff custodian is the Chargeman at Kirkcaldy."

 

also mentions the ground frames:

 

"Kirkcaldy Harbour branch .

A four lever ground frame to operate the connection between the Up Fife Iine and the Harbour branch

single goods line together with the ground position light signal No.(1) on the diagram. Trains may be shut in."

 

signalling diagram is on the last page, but does not show the new kirkcaldy box

[Wizard of the Moor]

The current (August 2012) issue of Railway Bylines has an article on the Kirkcaldy Harbour Railway. Lots of photos of D2743 (I think!) shunting, together with a few general shots and a map/trackplan.

 

Very inspiring!

[Blandford1969]

Have you seen there is an article in the current Bylines?

[keefer]

The current (August 2012) issue of Railway Bylines has an article on the Kirkcaldy Harbour Railway. Lots of photos of D2743 (I think!) shunting, together with a few general shots and a map/trackplan.

 

thanks for the heads up - i don't often buy magazines but have lately had a quick skiff through various ones in smiffs in the search of some fife interest. will definitely look this one out

 

cheers

[asarnot]

Re earlier post by Graham R, I seem to recall that there was a short siding or headshunt, which was equipped with an ash pit, immediately north of the Roseberry Terrace overbridge. I don't recall a water column, but I am sure the Harbour branch pilot 'rested' there between duties, and perhaps overnight as well. This was used as a signing on point for a short while, and was even noted as the Kirkcaldy 'sub-shed' of 62A Thornton Junction in a few issues of the Ian Allan ABC's in the days before it became customary to park the pilots at Kirkcaldy station. There was also a timber structure of some kind, but whether it was a primitive coaling bench, I have no idea. I don't recall whether it lasted into Hunslet diesel days, but if so, it couldn't have been used for long thereafter. Was it not customary to keep a pilot at Sinclairtown Goods between shifts?

hope this helps, Andy.

[Ian Kirk]

Hi,

 

I had forgotten about that headshunt. When the Hunslets replaced the J88s I think that they moved to the spur next to the signalbox at Kirkcaldy station. The Sinclairtown pilot was usually a J69 but I don't know if it was stabled there or returned to Thornton. The Dysart loco (Dubby shunt) was a J36 and it definately worked back to Thornton.

Andy, would you be the same Andrew Arnot who was a member of the Kirkcaldy Model Railway Club when it met in the room behind the Lomond Cycle Shop?

 

I found a few more photos of the harbour. These show the triangle leading to the swing bridge. You can see why they needed short wheelbase locos to get around these curves. The line that cuts through the centre is the one that appears in Pete's photo of the horse/cart/ship posted earlier.

 

best wishes

 

Ian

[asarnot]

Hi Ian,

Yes, I am one and the same! Many years ago I moved on to modelling the West Highland lines (fictional, but hopefully based on fact), but I have always retained an affection for the Harbour branch, as I worked in Hutchison's during my Uni vacations in 1961 -62. Although Hutchies were flour millers, the majority of their business at that time was in the malting of barley for the brewing and distilling trades. There were four maltings, East Holms, West Holms and Rravenscraig to the north of the East Burn, (known to all and sundry as the smelly burn) and Harbour or Harbourhead malting on the south side. The three northern maltings were accessed by a low girder bridge crossing the burn, with the rails set into the road surface, and the buildings themselves forming a close or 'pend'. Locomotives were not permitted into the pend, and wagons were shunted by wire rope and capstan - an occasionally hazardous procedure. Locos at that time were the Hunslet 0-6-0 DM, later given TOPS Class 05, of the D2576 to D2585 series, the J88's having disappeared a year or two before. Rolling stock consisted mainly of BR 20T grain vans, mostly unfitted, a variety of 12T box vans, and some experimental bulk malt conflats. There were also quite a few of the peak roofed wooden bodied grain wagons, mostly LGW, but also a few of Hutchies own for internal use. To my great regret, I never took any photos of the traffic in the mill, or in the harbour area either, although this was still considerable and very varied in the early to mid 60's, but if anyone is interested, I could probably remember most of it.

Regards,

Andy.