Raffles Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Youi're bang on the money Pixie. Crewe built locos had the flat section between the windows and tail lamps that lifted upwards. Loughborough built locos had the ridge run all the way above the windscreens and tail lamps that, more sensibly, open from the side. BUT... It's not a hard and fast rule. I'll find an example... bear with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ah good, I'm not loosing it then Matt! B) Wasn't there some extra visible piping along the side on either the paralell or series paralell wired ones too? Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2011 47 089. Crewe built but 9/3 at one end. Do I win a prize? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ah good, I'm not loosing it then Matt! B) Wasn't there some extra visible piping along the side on either the paralell or series paralell wired ones too? Pix Yep. SP machines had a section of pipework just below the bodyside. Often painted orange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 47 089. Crewe built but 9/3 at one end. Do I win a prize? No prize, except pride but yes. Just checked some photos and '089 had it's tail lights fitted the Loughborough way at no.1 end. There is another one from that batch though that had a Loughborough cab at one end. 47 website isn't too clever right now but I will find it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm ashamed really... If I may go slightly below stairs for a second, when built, some locos had one long "box" on the buffer beam, immediately below and roughly between the two lower cab front steps (see 105) and some, I think earlier built ones, had two. Anyone know if there was a pattern to this? Heljan has two incidentally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm not so sure about that.... I didn't consider which way round it was when I took the photo but have a look at the photo of '105 above. The dot is outside edge, secondman's side. There is no demister that side if I remember correctly.You can see the metallic strips of the demisters on the driver's side. No your right, I redited my post once I first posted it as I couldn't see the first pictures in the thread, it was only as you quoted for a mere three or four minutes so you've quoted my old post LOL, the dot is on the outside edge of the screen. I didnt know the sedcond mans screen wasnt heated, i thought they all were, hence that odd funky gold/purple effect in certain lighting and from certain angles, ie the gold film laminated into the screen. I would have thought both screens were heated when second men were the norm, but accept it may have fallen out of favour once single man working became the norm, though there may be occasions where the driver needed vision through both screens ?. Best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2011 Pix.....you had better find out how many rivets it has over the left No1 end leading axle set spring hanger.....I am just about to detail my bogie! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Thats always assuming the etches are more accurate than the Heljan research! You've not met Brian then?! Anything from EE shouldn't give any reasons to worry! It just makes other manufacturer's parts look rather poor! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 There was also some slight variations between the cabs. Some had the hinges on the tail lights at 12 and 6 o'clock, whilst others had them at 3 and 9 o'clock. Also the 'eyebrow' lip above the windscreen and below the wiper mounts meets sometimes meets and other times has a gap where it flattens out. I knew about the tail lights, but I'd never noticed the difference in the shape of the brow on the cab before. Well spotted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2011 If anyone isn't already aware of these sources, Sulzerpower.com has a page looking at the variations in front ends with respect to plated over headcodes, differing style marker lights, smooth replacement cabs etc. Modern Railways Illustrated did a two part special on 47s (basically pre and post private owership) which mentioned the Brush/Crewe tail lights and monobrow variations. There is also a photo montage of various style cab fronts in part 1 which gives an interesting comparison of how slight differences in the angle of view (and lens focal length I guess) have a marked effect on how square or curved the windows look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 class47.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 23, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2011 Unfortunately all a scale etch for the frames does is to highlight just how far out the entire cab front is on the Heljan 7mm 47.. I'll try to get some pic's tomorrow later!.. Cheers Brian (Extreme Etchings/Shawplan ) Brian, Any chance of posting a photo? On a related note, is there a decent quality scale drawing of the cab front that anyone knows of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Brian, Any chance of posting a photo? On a related note, is there a decent quality scale drawing of the cab front that anyone knows of? The NRM has Derby and Crewe archives and I did dig up some copies Swindon had when going through those boxes including some of the class 47. Probably find the best resource there for how the cabs were supposed to have been shaped. I certainly found the windsceen size drawings for the class 22 in the box for sending to Pilkingtons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2011 The NRM has Derby and Crewe archives and I did dig up some copies Swindon had when going through those boxes including some of the class 47. Probably find the best resource there for how the cabs were supposed to have been shaped. Reading through some old forum posts on this, I came across a mention of Model Railway Journal 63, which is one of the handful I already own, and there is an absolutely cracking article by Monty Wells including fantastic photos of both bogies (straying slightly off this topic!) and his own drawings measured up from various locos he crawled all over at Gloucester shed. Based on these (and they do look right to the eye) the Heljan 7mm cab front does appear to be somewhere around 3mm too narrow, after the body tapers, with the windows (and headcode) similarly squashed in width to fit. The windows are also a tad too big vertically: I think the bottom edge is in about the right place and it's the tops that are too high, particularly at the outside, therefore making the rain strip even further out than it looked already. I still think a window frame etch, even if simply nearer scale rather than 100%, would help. Alternatively a replacement cab would be tremendous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2011 I've just bought a Bachmann 47 - purely in the interests of research you understand - which without opening up old debates, I think is generally accepted as having a pretty good shape. I drew this to scale, blew it up to 7mm and have compared the resulting drawings to the Heljan O gauge effort. Accepting this is therefore only as accurate as Bachmann's interpretation, they are remarkably similar everywhere up to the bottom edge of the windscreens. Aside from the straight bottom edge of the Heljan windscreens, the top of the windows are approximately 1mm higher than a 7mm Bachmann would be and the roof gutter is nearer 2mm higher. Nothing that hasn't been suggested already but interesting to confirm, as it were. What did surprise me is that the Heljan width wasn't vastly different to a scaled up Bachmann. I think the apparent "pinched" look is largely caused by the Heljan effort's height. Personally I'm going to carry on working on overlay window frame mods and if I can get them acceptable will build up the courage to move the gutter. Short of studding it with pins, I'm not sure how to recreate the Bachmann rivets in 7mm though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I've just bought a Bachmann 47 - purely in the interests of research you understand That was the excuse I used. I have 3 now. Purely for research purposes etc etc Acknowledging the use of a smiley, the 'rivets' were flush fitting, flat headed screws. (I know we've done this to death previously elsewhere...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Are there any etches availiable for the windscreen frames for the class 47, I have a Lima 47 that could probaly do with some, as it has the "sad face"look to it, as well as the cabside frames as well that are too prominent NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Are there any etches availiable for the windscreen frames for the class 47, I have a Lima 47 that could probaly do with some, as it has the "sad face"look to it, as well as the cabside frames as well that are too prominent On the 47 in my thread I've reprofiled the windows but haven't added new beading - with black window surrounds this isn't noticeable really. But you could easily adding beading using plastic rod a la Peter Johnson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 sounds a good idea James, Im sure I saw "class 47 windows" advertised on a Shawplan advert, im wondering what they actually are? I found this today guys, which hopefully the website owner hopefully wont mind me linking and if everyone hasnt seen it already; it lists all of the cab front modifications over the years including all the FOC mods as well http://sulzerpower.com/frontends/headcodepanels.html NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It may of been PMP, I am aware Shawplan do laser cut glazing, and a fine product it looks as well! Shall be investing in some for my fleet of Vi 47s and may incoporate it for my "Limbachby" 47 NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can anyone recommend replacement windscreen wipers in 4mm please? I need the later, single arm type. Ta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Shawplan, do single arm wipers, cant remember how much, but they are only couple of quid.. NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2011 Shawplan, do single arm wipers, cant remember how much, but they are only couple of quid.. Many thanks. Website makes me feel a bit like a kid in a sweet shop! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 There was also some slight variations between the cabs. Some had the hinges on the tail lights at 12 and 6 o'clock, whilst others had them at 3 and 9 o'clock. Also the 'eyebrow' lip above the windscreen and below the wiper mounts meets sometimes meets and other times has a gap where it flattens out. Compare http://www.class47.c...g=1158051141211 and http://www.class47.c...g=1151051054211 . I had thought that this was depending on where they were built but I'm not sure, it seems to be a bit of a mixed bag. Rivet countery but I thought I'd throw it in! Christ, I need to get out more. Pix As a rule of thumb continuous "eyebrows" means a Loughborough built 47 and split ones means a Crewe built 47. As for the tail lamps the Brush built locos having these lamps hinged sideways, whereas Crewe built examples have the hinge on top. However crash repairs over the years have led to all sorts of variations. The erstwhile 47163 for example. have a look at its cabs after its smash at Willesden 1977 to see what I mean. the loco was built by Brush. Regards Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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