LMS Riveted Fowler Tenders

[finelines]

I have been working on a bit of modelling for myself and at some stage in the future I might need a riveted Fowler tender, which I thought was easy. But studying photographs there is definately a type that has a rivets on the tank and the "beading". On others it appears that the top of the beading forms the upward extension of the tender side.

 

Do you know?

 

Roger

[67A]

Hi Roger,

 

I can tell you that several of the early Jubilee's had high sided Fowler tenders which looked different to the common type found on Crab's, 4F's 8f's etc. What are you modelling?

regards

Mike

[bike2steam]

There were 4 different types of Fowler tenders in the Jubilee class alone.

[cb900f]

Roger

 

There is an article covering the high sided Fowler tenders in Model Railways April 1974 including 4mm plans.

I have just made the sides with all the rivets with a riveting tool and have the blisters for my pains.

 

Pete

[finelines]

I am talking about the "bog standard" Fowler 3500 tender, although having just read the Compound book almost no 2 seem to be the same.

 

Many people describe the flat strips as beading and I will use this description. When you look at flush rivetted tenders the light can play tricks which suggest that the top beading is not beading but a sheet that flows straight up to the top of the tender side. Now turning to the riveted type the light does play the same tricks. If you look at the pictures of 42980 in "The Book of the Stanier 2-6-0s" on pages 93 and 94 you can see the trick of the light. In different pictures the same tender looks different. But when you look at other tenders with better lighting you can't see the line on the top of the beading. I also think they are missing the upright beading at the front and rear.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Roger

[bike2steam]

There's flush head rivets, there's snap head rivets, beading, no beading, combination of all four, and then there's flush sided, take yer pick.

Oh, and there's Fowler bodies on Deeley frames -confused ?

[Lambton58]

Two types of riveted tenders? Those that leaked and those that didn't?

 

I'll get me coat

 

Ralph

Lambton58

[Poor Old Bruce]

There is an article covering the high sided Fowler tenders in Model Railways April 1974 including 4mm plans.

I have just made the sides with all the rivets with a riveting tool and have the blisters for my pains.

In fairness there were only ten of that type although they did get around a bit, originally allocated to Jubilees they ended up on Patriots, 4Fs and 8Fs as well. When I did one many years ago I got some etches from Alan Gibson to stick to an Airix 4F tender.

[coachmann]

Ignoring the tall tenders and tenders with small tanks of Deeley frames, these were the main Fowler LMS 3.500 gallon tender types :-

 

Tender 1) Flush rivetted (ie: none on show) with flat-strip beading along base, verticle at each end and across the upper 'waist', so forming a rectangle.

 

Tender 2) Round head (snap head) rivetted with separate upper plate overlapping lower part of tender.

 

Tender 3) Round head (snap head) rivetted with separate upper plate overlapping lower part of tender plus additional flat plate surround as per Tender 1 but pop-rivetted rivetted in place.

[finelines]

Thanks Coach. That was the conclusion I had come to. It also explains why the line above the the waist riveted strip is hard to see.

 

Roger

[Poor Old Bruce]

Ignoring the tall tenders and tenders with small tanks of Deeley frames, these were the main Fowler LMS 3.500 gallon tender types :-

 

Tender 1) Flush rivetted (ie: none on show) with flat-strip beading along base, verticle at each end and across the upper 'waist', so forming a rectangle.

 

Tender 2) Round head (snap head) rivetted with separate upper plate overlapping lower part of tender.

 

Tender 3) Round head (snap head) rivetted with separate upper plate overlapping lower part of tender plus additional flat plate surround as per Tender 1 but pop-rivetted rivetted in place.

Then there were those built without water scoops, so no dome and only one operating handle at the front

[finelines]

Were there type 3 with flush rivets? ie overlapping upper plate without visible rivets.

 

Roger

[LMS2968]

What I call 'beading' when considering these tenders when attached to the Stanier Crabs is the finishing strip around the top edge of the side and rear panels. There are differences there too.

 

On most tenders this strip of steel, an inch or so wide, lay on top of the panel, and so formed a T but with the top face slightly rounded. On others, it was fitted flat against the panel, in the manner of a P. The difference can be very difficult to see in photos unless the angle is right, but since the Irwell Book of the Stanier 2-6-0s has already been cited, I'd refer to Pages 60/61 and 65 for an example of the former, and to Pages 59 (lower), 66 to 68 for good examples of the latter.

 

The other issue of course, was coal rails, which became standard around 1932 or 1933, although earlier tenders were also sometimes fitted with them retospectively.