Train Journeys From Hell

[Ian J.]

A quick heads up for this programme on Monday 21st March, 2011, at 8pm GMT:

 

Train Journeys from Hell

 

The page linked to suggests it will be available on 4OD after broadcast.

[Ian J.]

Was it only me who watched this then?

 

Suffice it to say that I don't think there was anything in it that we here would find surprising. Much coverage of overcrowding, the absurd ticket arrangements and lateness of trains. The only production thing that got my goat was the repeated references early on in the programme to the Dispatches website. The oddest thing was the use of a shot of a double headed steam train for the closing credits! Seems there's a desire on someone in the production team's part to return to steam...

[caradoc]

Just watched this programme. Somewhat disappointing, in that everything said has been said many times before. There are certainly many areas where rail performance has to improve; The unyielding imposition of penalty fares, for example, must be tempered with some understanding of human error. However, not one single person on the programme, from Richard Wilson to so-called rail experts Christian Wolmar and Barry Doe, offered any solution to the problems. Anyone can moan about poor service, but how about proposing, and costing, how these problems could be solved ? To alleviate overcrowding, for example; How many extra carriages do you buy, which then make 1 return trip each Monday to Friday and lie idle the rest of the time ?

 

There was a strange contradiction; On the one hand, train fares are too expensive, but on the other, trains are also overcrowded. Should fares be reduced, thus leading to more overcrowding, but less income to improve the service; Alternatively, should fares be increased to the point where some cannot afford to travel, resulting in more comfort for the privileged few who can ?

 

I look forward to equally hard-hitting programmes on the inadequacies of Britain's competing forms of transport; Perhaps Channel 4 might look at the 3000 plus people killed by road transport each and every year ? This, I suggest, is a far more important national issue than uncomfortable commuting.

[JamesB 34067]

I missed this but lucky I have 4OD on me Playstation 3,

 

James

[chrisf]

I was disappointed as well. It's all very well holding the telephone enquiry system up to ridicule for a cheap laugh but there can be little realistic prospect of putting the anomaly-filled fare structure to rights. Season ticket holders are never going to accept that their tickets are heavily discounted despite costing thousands of pounds. As for Stephen Norris, although the film showed his lips moving I had the feeling that the sound was coming from a body part more suited to sitting than to speech.

 

It will be interesting to see what McNulty recommends by way of stripping out some of the ridiculous costs that infect the industry but much of the blame must be laid at the door of those who brought about the structure of the privatised industry.

 

Chris

[The Stationmaster]

 

It will be interesting to see what McNulty recommends by way of stripping out some of the ridiculous costs that infect the industry but much of the blame must be laid at the door of those who brought about the structure of the privatised industry.

 

Chris

 

Perhaps not entirely down to those who brought about the structure (which has more than enough byzantine complexities in even its simplest form) but as much, if not more, down to the politicos of all shades who subsequently messed about with it in various ways and really b*llse*d up some things.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Just watched this programme. Somewhat disappointing, in that everything said has been said many times before. There are certainly many areas where rail performance has to improve; The unyielding imposition of penalty fares, for example, must be tempered with some understanding of human error. However, not one single person on the programme, from Richard Wilson to so-called rail experts Christian Wolmar and Barry Doe, offered any solution to the problems. Anyone can moan about poor service, but how about proposing, and costing, how these problems could be solved ? To alleviate overcrowding, for example; How many extra carriages do you buy, which then make 1 return trip each Monday to Friday and lie idle the rest of the time ?

 

There was a strange contradiction; On the one hand, train fares are too expensive, but on the other, trains are also overcrowded. Should fares be reduced, thus leading to more overcrowding, but less income to improve the service; Alternatively, should fares be increased to the point where some cannot afford to travel, resulting in more comfort for the privileged few who can ?

 

I look forward to equally hard-hitting programmes on the inadequacies of Britain's competing forms of transport; Perhaps Channel 4 might look at the 3000 plus people killed by road transport each and every year ? This, I suggest, is a far more important national issue than uncomfortable commuting.

 

While I agree with your first two paragraphs, I think it's unrealistic to compare the rail transport problems with road transport and the tragic issue of road deaths. The one thing you cannot legislate for is peoples stupidity, which is what causes most road accidents. You can (to a degree) legislate for avarice and commercial incompetence.

[Rivercider]

As for Stephen Norris, although the film showed his lips moving I had the feeling that the sound was coming from a body part more suited to sitting than to speech.

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

Norris gets me annoyed every time I see or hear him. If he said something was black I would want to argue it was white.

Early on he said that everyone knew British Rail was a byword for inefficiency, but later talked of the current situation where annual spend

on the railways had risen from £1 billion per annum to £? billion per annum, saying that efficiency savings had to be made.

Surely he should have been challenged about that? The current model is seriously flawed, and every post privatisation change

in structure/funding/regulation throws up more obsurdities.

As one of my former railway colleagues used to say 'it's a failed project'

 

Anyway rant over, I didn't learn anything new either.

 

cheers

[caradoc]

I was disappointed as well. It's all very well holding the telephone enquiry system up to ridicule for a cheap laugh but there can be little realistic prospect of putting the anomaly-filled fare structure to rights. Season ticket holders are never going to accept that their tickets are heavily discounted despite costing thousands of pounds. As for Stephen Norris, although the film showed his lips moving I had the feeling that the sound was coming from a body part more suited to sitting than to speech.

 

It will be interesting to see what McNulty recommends by way of stripping out some of the ridiculous costs that infect the industry but much of the blame must be laid at the door of those who brought about the structure of the privatised industry.

 

Chris

 

It sounded as if Richard Wilson was using an automatic voice-activated telephone enquiry service. In which case, why call such a service from outside, where noises from the weather, traffic, etc, are liable to have an adverse effect ? Unless, of course, you deliberately wanted to portray the service in as poor a light as possible.

 

Steven Norris, as a former Chairman of Jarvis, responsible for maintaining the track at Potters Bar, has forfeited any right to make pronouncements on the state of our railways, and should crawl back under his stone.

[Horsetan]

....Jarvis, responsible for maintaining the track at Potters Bar...

 

Could we insert the word "not" between "for" and "maintaining"? Thank you.

[Welly]

I sat down to watch it but the subtitles were out of sync so I couldn't watch it. I only watched the bit where Richard Wilson rode a 142 and described it as "dire" {yawn}

 

I laughed when Richard got off the train at KX and was asked if he has permission to film there!

[PrestburyJack]

The unyielding imposition of penalty fares, for example, must be tempered with some understanding of human error.

 

I sympathise with the person who accidently forgets their railcard - perhaps the penalty fare could be refunded on later production of a railcard which was valid at the time of travel. Also the person who accidently gets on the wrong train - there was a case in the news recently concerning a family who caught the 9:39 instead of the 9:59 (or similar) and were charged the full fare. However, some people may book a ticket for a cheap train and then deliberately travel on a different train for which no cheap tickets are available - pity the guard who has to decide between the genuine error and the deliberate.

[10800]

It sounded as if Richard Wilson was using an automatic voice-activated telephone enquiry service. In which case, why call such a service from outside, where noises from the weather, traffic, etc, are liable to have an adverse effect ? Unless, of course, you deliberately wanted to portray the service in as poor a light as possible.

 

Obviously there was some of the latter, but in principle why not phone from outside? If a system like that is meant to be useful in this I-everything age it should function with outside noises off. What Richard didn't do though was restrict his answers to just the name of the station when prompted.

 

But even inside, I'm sure we've all suffered from the likes of the Odeon cinemas automatic information line: "Say the name of the cinema you want to attend". "EX-E-TER". "You asked for information on films showing at NEWCASTLE"

 

Clearly there has to be lots of improvement in these voice activated systems before they can be seen as reliable. Better to stick to text entry or speaking to a real person for now.

[APOLLO]

Yes, I watched the programme. Nothing new, but then again we are all railway enthusiasts here - WE know it's fact. The general public mostly don't.

 

Our modern, privatised railways are a national disgrace - a sick, expensive joke. Billions in subsidies paid to the operators, together with high fares provide millions in profits to the bus (& airline !!) company executives & shareholders. A leaking gravy "train" of immense proportions.

 

What frightens me is an editorial article I read in the "Railway Magazine" a couple of years ago. It is coming true.

 

The article stated that "the privatised operators have little incentive to REALLY invest in new trains, why invest when you can "squeeze the asset", charge more for what you have, also when road fuel gets prohibitedly expensive (as in RIGHT NOW) and trains get even more overcrowded, the operators way of dealing with this is to charge even more. Why build new trains when you can squeeze the suckers (sorry, customers) for ever more" !!

 

It's all about profits, it's modern business 2011 style.

 

And DON'T get me going about gas, electricity, telephone, water, insurance, NHS, etc, etc, etc.

 

Brit15

[EddieB]

Norris gets me annoyed every time I see or hear him. If he said something was black I would want to argue it was white.

cheers

 

Agreed. He was my former MP and unfortunately I cannot say just how deplorable I found him on a public site.

 

Sadly, I was also a shareholder in Jarvis (probably still am, though my holding is worthless), before he took over and ran it into the ground.

[EddieB]

Yes, I watched the programme. Nothing new, but then again we are all railway enthusiasts here - WE know it's fact. The general public mostly don't.

 

Our modern, privatised railways are a national disgrace - a sick, expensive joke. Billions in subsidies paid to the operators, together with high fares provide millions in profits to the bus (& airline !!) company executives & shareholders. A leaking gravy "train" of immense proportions.

 

Brit15

 

Not forgetting the big retail banks who own or owned the rolling stock leasing companies.

 

Once again, the profits are privatised, the risks nationalised.

[plarailfan]

I thought it was a pity Christian Wolmar never mentioned about lines and stations being "full" to capacity, such as London and the South East. No suggestions were made as to why longer trains are not always possible, due to platform length at some stations. I thought christian might have briefly mentioned the solution of double decker trains, and the subsequent expense of lowering tracks, or raising bridges, but instead, no sloution was offered or suggested, by anyone on the programme, regarding the railway being able to cope with so many commuters, which probably left many viewers in limbo, wondering what may, or may not happen to their overcrowded journey in the future.

All in all, it was just an observation of well known issues, with no praise for the West Coast upgrade, Trent Valley four tracking, Pendolino's and other positives, that have come on stream since privatisation.

[APOLLO]

Pendolinos positive ??

 

Give me an 87 with 10 Mk3's anyday (or better still, a Brit and 12 Mk 1's !!)

 

Brit15

[WIZ]

All in all, it was just an observation of well known issues, with no praise for the West Coast upgrade, Trent Valley four tracking, Pendolino's and other positives, that have come on stream since privatisation.

the reality of privatisation on the west coast main line is reduced services with longer travel times and higher fairs,and you wont get a seat on a cross country train.not all bad some praise to london midland