Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[Stanley Melrose]

I first enquired about availability of this turntable in May 2009!  In 2015, I was told that a test etch had been produced but there was no one to build it.  I volunteered to do it but received no response to that offer.

 

Such a shame as it appears there are quite a few interested potential customers.

 

Maybe we should all ask John Redrup if he will do one?

 

Stan

 

Happy New Year to you as well!

 

I was up and about at 4.00am this morning as this head cold made it hard to breathe, so was reading about your plastering skills.  I have to say, Stockrington is really coming along well.  Those sweeping curves across the plain and then the lower bridge over the river are a joy to behold.

 

It seems Metalsmiths have sold the whole lot to Midland Railway Centre and it's still the same....:-)

 

One day it will happen.  Probably just after I've ordered an ADM one....

 

Of course Iain wants one for Camden, so that's three of us already.

 

Screen Shot 2018-01-02 at 09.18.44.png

[Rowsley17D]

Hi Gordon, have you seen that Templot will now create tandem turnouts automatically? Would this help with your MPD problems?

[The Stationmaster]

A few points (sorry) Gordon -

 

1. If you swap the coal stage with the engine shed I think you are going to shoot a hole in your foot over the way the shed will, or rather won't, work as it will leave the turntable in the wrong place for a reasonably smooth progression of locos around the yard.

 

2.  the coal stage is definitely on the wrong siding and should be on the middle one as you suggest, ideally with a crossover towards the end of the siding so engines progress through instead of having to shunt back and forth, thus engine coming on shed turns (if required, goes towards the coal stage to coal, crosses over to the other siding and then back over the ashpits, then back towards the neck of the yard to finally go onto a shed road for whatever it's going to do next.

 

Hope that helps with your thoughts.

[teaky]

Would it be possible to very carefully saw the ends off the shed and swap them over then disguise the joints with paint or some structural detail (e.g. drain pipes, pipework, cabling, ...)?

 

I have to say though that it looks promising already despite being just a few buildings on a sheet of paper.

[gordon s]

Apologies for my absence.  Just taken a couple of hours out to watch my Tottenham boys play West Ham.  I won't say anything about the game in case it's on later, but there's two of the best goals I've seen this season.....

 

I've come to the conclusion ET is like Groundhog Day and right now I feel like Bill Murray....

 

Mike you're a star!  Over the years your input has been invaluable.  In it's simplest terms ET is a model railway, not a model of a railway and whilst I'm not driven to have prototypical accuracy of everything, I do try to add some value of my own and get the basics without glaring errors.  Over the years, there have been numerous versions of my layout and each time there has been some gentle banter about how railways work and flow patterns through sheds etc.

 

This is where Mike, Martin and numerous others have nudged me and gently pointed out that is not quite right and in some cases totally wrong.  Shed dynamics is one of those and now I can recall having exactly this discussion a while back and I went away and pored over various shed books to arrive at this design.  Of course we're now months if not years down the line and I'd completely forgotten why I did certain things and so jumped to the conclusion I'd cocked up.

 

I now realise what I have (apart from the coaling stage) is correct and I'd accepted the issue with the shed wall.  I have some ideas how to deal with that, but bed beckons and I'll touch on that again tomorrow.  Hopefully I'll get more than an hour or two of sleep, but don't be surprised if I'm back here again at three am.

 

Thanks for all your ideas and contributions over the years.  I certainly don't know enough about real railways as I'm always trying to learn.  The biggest problem is then remembering it......

Edited January 5, 2018 by gordon s

[aardvark]

The biggest problem is then remembering

 

Amen to that!

[Regularity]

I have a question, and a couple of observations/questions.

 

A - what purpose does this crossover serve? Could it be removed?

B - do you need this road if...

C - ...you rotate the coaling plant 180 degrees?

 

[Pete Harvey]

Where do the empty coal wagons go?

[martin_wynne]

Hi Gordon,

 

re the brick paper. Allan Downes is a member of RMweb: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/user/18579-allan-downes/

 

A PM might discover that he still has some sheets of the brick paper, or can advise the source. Also active on YMRC: http://yourmodelrailway.net/

 

But some sort of structure against that wall seems the best option. Some stores sheds or similar wouldn't look out of place.

 

p.s. the shed also needs a sand-dryer somewhere, see: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106308-midland-sand-drying-houses/

 

Martin.

Edited January 5, 2018 by martin_wynne

[gordon s]

Morning all...Managed to grab a few hours sleep, albeit on the sofa downstairs, so that's a plus.

 

Thanks for all your input, as now I've realised the route of some of the errors.

 

The shed track was wrong.  This shed came from an earlier plan that had been tweaked and I'd missed that crossover.  Many thanks for picking that up.

 

Here's a few shots with my corrections.

 

 

The correct line is now shown in black.  It was there to allow loco's to move from the coaling stage into one of the shed roads without having to back out right down the shed access road.

 

The coaling stage was the wrong way round.  Again In was thinking of a viewers perspective, forgetting you have access on three sides.  As the back of the coaling stage is less interesting than the front (visually) I turned it round.  Turning it through 180 degrees now makes sense and allows the storage siding for empty coal wagons in blue.

 

I want to free up the central area and will probably move the workshop to the side and relocate the water tower.

 

This will allow these changes.

 

 

I'm not a member of the flat earth society and to deal with the blank shed wall, I'm thinking about a half height shed access road running across behind the shed with a down ramp into the shed area itself.  This road will only be say 30mm above the shed so the gradient is gentle.  A pair of double gates across the entrance set back from the road will also give some interest.  I can then have a low retaining wall and perhaps a storage area of sorts between the shed wall and the road.  All of this will allow me to do something with the blank wall.  I will drop a PM to Allan Downes as the original builder of these items.  I'm guessing they are now probably 10 years old, but you never know he may be able to identify the brick paper used at the time of construction.

 

Vacating the central area makes it a little more spacious and I will still have room to fit a sand dryer building in the yellow area.

 

No doubt there will be other chat during the day, so speak to you later.

Edited January 5, 2018 by gordon s

[Michael Edge]

Morning all...Managed to grab a few hours sleep, albeit on the sofa downstairs, so that's a plus.

 

Thanks for all your input, as now I've realised the route of some of the errors.

 

The shed track was wrong.  This shed came from an earlier plan that had been tweaked and I'd missed that crossover.  Many thanks for picking that up.

 

Here's a few shots with my corrections.

 

DSCF9040.jpg

 

The correct line is now shown in black.  It was there to allow loco's to move from the coaling stage into one of the shed roads without having to back out right down the shed access road.

 

The coaling stage was the wrong way round.  Again In was thinking of a viewers perspective, forgetting you have access on three sides.  As the back of the coaling stage is less interesting than the front (visually) I turned it round.  Turning it through 180 degrees now makes sense and allows the storage siding for empty coal wagons in blue.

 

I want to free up the central area and will probably move the workshop to the side and relocate the water tower.

 

This will allow these changes.

 

DSCF9038.jpg

 

I'm not a member of the flat earth society and to deal with the blank shed wall, I'm thinking about a half height shed access road running across behind the shed with a down ramp into the shed area itself.  This road will only be say 30mm above the shed so the gradient is gentle.  A pair of double gates across the entrance set back from the road will also give some interest.  I can then have a low retaining wall and perhaps a storage area of sorts between the shed wall and the road.  All of this will allow me to do something with the blank wall.  I will drop a PM to Allan Downes as the original builder of these items.  I'm guessing they are now probably 10 years old, but you never know he may be able to identify the brick paper used at the time of construction.

 

Vacating the central area makes it a little more spacious and I will still have room to fit a sand dryer building in the yellow area.

 

No doubt there will be other chat during the day, so speak to you later.

 

That blue siding doesn't look very useful for empty coal wagons, unless you are shunting by gravity it's not easy to see how you can get the wagons in and out of it.

[gordon s]

Off to the Doc's at 10.00, but here's the revised track plan which deals with the various issues we discussed yesterday.  I'll hold fire on printing it full size in case there are other minor improvements.

 

[Regularity]

That blue siding doesn't look very useful for empty coal wagons, unless you are shunting by gravity it's not easy to see how you can get the wagons in and out of it.

Like this?

[danstercivicman]

The siding could always be a cripple road full of scrap Q6's or similar retired locos?

Edited January 5, 2018 by danstercivicman

[The Stationmaster]

That blue siding doesn't look very useful for empty coal wagons, unless you are shunting by gravity it's not easy to see how you can get the wagons in and out of it.

 

True.  So what solution is needed and that is the big problem?

 

1.  'Regularity's' 'green siding is probably the best answer but I would not take out any of the roads leading off the turntable, in fact an 'adjustment of one (if the curve can be fitted in) leading into a double slip which continue to both the coaling tower wagon handling side and the coal siding would be a good solution if it will fit.  That then allows coal wagons to be shunted without interfering with engine movement from the turntable to the coaler.

 

2.  The sand dryer needs to be closer to where the sand will be used - the present sit of the building with the red/blue arrows leading out of it would be good or on the opposite side of the shed lines.

 

[JeffP]

I like the present layout of the shed, but one comment from me would be that, every shed I visted as a boy had about 75% of it's stabling outside, with only 25% covered. This one has little or no outside stabling, unless you count the area immediately in fron of the shed building.

 

Loco's in steam, awaiting next turn of duty, were rarely stabled inside as they filled the shed with steam/smoke.

[gordon s]

Right back from the Doc's so able to comment on your replies.  To feed the coaling stage will require an 08 plus 3 16 tonners.  There's never going to be more than 6 empty wagons, so at that point 08 returns and then shunts them off somewhere.  Now I see the issues from the original proposal.  

 

Picking up on Mike's point, I will always try and avoid slips as they are a pain to build and get tip top running quality.  I could possibly do it, but the curved slip rails have to be larger than 36".

 

Tried to run an additional turntable road, but I cannot do that without the radius dropping below 36"

 

So a bit of tinkering and these two options came out of Templot...

 

Option 1

 

 

A storage siding for empties added above the coaler road.  With a bit of running around, an 08 could get to the back of the wagons and push them into the coaling road.  You can then pull forward with the empties and push them into the storage road.  You then have two escape routes.

 

The length of the storage road after the turnout is around 430mm.  I don't have the dimensions of a loco and wagons, but I'm guessing that might be OK.

 

Option 2

 

 

Similar set up although you gain a little in storage length.  It goes up to 600mm after the turnout.  The two crossings might prove a bit of a challenge in building and wiring, but could be attractive.

 

I had no idea where a sand-drying plant would go, so just plonked it.  Nearer the time we can play around with buildings.

[hayfield]

 

Picking up on Mike's point, I will always try and avoid slips as they are a pain to build and get tip top running quality.  I could possibly do it, but the curved slip rails have to be larger than 36".

 

 

 

 

How about a switched diamond if you want to exclude slips ?

[gordon s]

Sorry John, took me a while to understand what you meant.

 

Using switched crossings instead of a K crossings is one option and I seem to recall building one that way a while back.

 

Food for thought....

 

Edit:  Just drawn one up in Templot.  That's a possibility. 6 Tortoise motors on one piece of track would be expensive....

 

Just as well I bought several when they were £10 each. 

 

OK, Mike, let's assume I can build one.  Can you scribble out a pencil sketch of your proposal so I can see exactly what you were suggesting and I'll have a go in Templot tomorrow.

Edited January 5, 2018 by gordon s

[gordon s]

Right, best I could do in an hour or so.  The make double slip option certainly helps, but it took me ages to work out how to get the slip going in the right direction to get to the correct roads and still be able to access the turntable correctly.

 

Apologies for the camera shot.  Templot is on my windows PC and I work on a Mac (don't go there!).  The sketch facility is great, but shows the whole plan so the slips etc lacked the detail I needed.

 

Got there eventually, so quite happy.....

 

[martin_wynne]

The sketch facility is great, but shows the whole plan so the slips etc lacked the detail I needed.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

To show full template detail on the sketchboard -- on the sketchboard control panel, trackplan tab, untick the in diagram mode tickbox, and then click update now button.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[jukebox]

Hi Gordon

 

I hate adding a criticism without offering a solution...  so as an "observation"; a double slip is a fairly expensive and mechanically complex bit of kit in real life.  I wonder how out of place it will look on a coaling stage road in a depot?  I haven't gone back and looked, but if you went through the ER and NER volumes of Paul Bolgers depot plans, I suspect you would not find too many double slips inside a steam era MPD.

 

I understand the issue is one of space, and compression, however as model coaling operations are imaginary, anyway, perhaps sacrificing true to life "operability" for a track arrangement that is simpler, but more visually in line with what you would see, is a compromise worth considering?

 

Always remember - It comes down to what *you* are happiest with. My opinion is only worth 2p. Some may say that needs discounting!    

 

Regards

 

Scott

Edited January 5, 2018 by jukebox

[trustytrev]

Hello Gordon,

                  Could you not use the PrtScr/SysRq  key to get a screen grab? I think it would be easier quicker and better than a camera shot.

trustytrev.

[martin_wynne]

Hello Gordon,

                  Could you not use the PrtScr/SysRq  key to get a screen grab? I think it would be easier quicker and better than a camera shot.

 

Or:

 

 

Martin.

[bgman]

Hi Gordon,

 

Ref your post #3392 " I work on a Mac (don't go there )

 

For several years I've been using an old PC running Windows for Templot and wished that I could use my MacBook for the programme.

 

About two weeks ago I bit the bullet and downloaded a free software called Winebottler and Wine to run Windows based programmes on my Mac. There are a few videos on YouTube with some helpful pointers too, albeit for the gamers of this world, but if read between the lines so to speak gives a good idea of its use on a Mac. It also saves having to partition the hard drive which some may know about.

 

Being rather nervous about the process all my fears have been allayed and I now run Templot without any problems. It may not be for everyone but possibly worth mentioning for those who wish to give it a try.

 

 

Grahame