trisonic Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 One of the advantages of living on the old GER side of Eastern was that you could get an appreciation of the workaday locos (although I always loved to see Britannia, herself). Look at it. The B1 does have beautiful lines. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Thought you may be interested in seeing the difference between a standard out of the box Bachmann and the Comet kit. It's easy to see the compromises Bachmann have made to make a robust loco... It's a pretty cruel close up and I still have much to do in terms of cleaning and painting. The one thing very much in Bachmann's favour is the weight of the loco. Those old split frame chassis were pretty hefty. Looks like I'll have to make a few trips up the local church roof to find that much lead.... Edited October 2, 2011 by gordon s 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Been busy all week, but finally managed to get the chassis running and into the paint shop today. Sadly, I managed to strip one of the gears in the Comet gearbox. The design is OK, but there is a grub screw right in the middle of the gear teeth and you do need to be careful with the alignment. I hadn't really picked this up and Geoff very kindly sent me a replacement. Whilst I was waiting, an old High Level gearbox caught my eye, so I thought I would have a play until the replacement gear turned up the following day. This is a High Flier box that I bought for my Mucky Duck experiments and fitted perfectly. So much so, it could go round either way and the thought of being able to get loads of weight over the cab and middle drivers was too much to resist. The Mashima motor fits perfectly, although this one doesn't have a flywheel. If you want a flywheel, the no problem at all. Just turn the motor/gearbox around and it will fit in the firebox. I order some Vallejo primer a few days ago and it turned up this morning. It sprayed well, but adhesion to metal surfaces is not as good as the Simoniz red oxide. It may be it needs far more time to harden, so I'll see how it looks tomorrow. Thanks for your input on spraying the chassis. I propped it up and ran it at 10% whilst I sprayed and it turned out well, so many thanks again. Edited October 7, 2011 by gordon s 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Looking the business Gordon, that's the gearbox choice I would go for, you shouldn't have any problems there. Edit:- you shouldn't need a flywheel with it anyway. Edited October 7, 2011 by Worsdell forever Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Good work, Gordon. The chassis looks super! With the benefit of hindsight, how helpful was the chassis alignment tool? Best, Pete. Edited October 8, 2011 by trisonic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 For someone with limited experience, absolutely invaluable. Although I have the basic engineering knowledge, I have yet to learn the nuances of loco/chassis building that can only come with practice. The jig was a shortcut to getting everything in line and square and I doubt the chassis would have run as smoothly without it. Worth £200? For me, yes, as it gave me the confidence to attempt something I feared. I bought it on the basis that it would give me a fighting chance of improving basic skills and if it didn't work out then I could always sell it without too much damage. Certainly cheaper than wrecking a few kits.... Just the pickups to do. I've done tender pickups before, but those for a loco are a whole new ball game. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Well, 200 quid is pretty good if you amortise over, say, 5 chassis (that WILL be correct)! The more expensive the loco kit the faster the payback. I really enjoy your updates, Gordon, because you're like "everyman" doing something and you never say "assemble this part in the usual way" - which always bugs me about the "experts"......... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 You've made a really good job of that, Gordon. I entirely agree about the Avonside jig. I started by building a few frames using a simple home made jig like the London Road type together with some long pieces of 1/8" silver steel rod to check alignments, and so proved to myself I could do it that way. Then I bought an Avonside jig. It's a real luxury but, as Pete says, spread the cost over several kits and it is well worthwhile. In particular, I find the ability to just drop the frames back on to the jig at any point to check that all is well is invaluable. As you say, if you have some basic skills all you then need is a bit of confidence and practice. I'm in the middle of building the inside valve gear for a Brassmasters 4F and am regularly amazing myself as the sub sections come together. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Well, 200 quid is pretty good if you amortise over, say, 5 chassis (that WILL be correct)! The more expensive the loco kit the faster the payback. It's not quite like that, Pete. The jig has a second hand value, say £100, so the ammortisation is £20.00 per chassis. More to the point is that you are more likely to build a second or third chassis, if the first couple are successful. If the jig were rubbish, then I agree with you, the investment doesn't stack up. My view is that you are likely to give up after attempting to build two or three chassis that fail owing to the lack of experience, skill or the correct tooling. This jig allows you to go beyond two or three chassis builds and as such the figures change dramatically. Apologies for using this as a business plan, but years of loss/return analysis are hard to change and I tend to look at most purchases in that idiom. Edited October 8, 2011 by gordon s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Did you really miss "work", this morning, Gordon? I knew I shouldn't have used the word "amortise". I should talk, I spent over $600.00 on a Renzetti Master Fly Vise more than ten years ago. It was so beautifully engineered I could not resist it........ Best, Pete. Edited October 9, 2011 by trisonic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 The last few months have seen me totally change my view on what I wanted from my own layout and caused me to reflect on the lack of progress on ET. I have been easily diverted into other things like the B1 chassis and advice given to me months ago to simplify the whole project from Dave Shakespeare of Tetleys Mill and Great Northern of Peterborough North has been festering away in my brain for some time. The demands of this project initially seemed achievable, but as weeks turned into months and months into years, I seem as far away from completion as ever. Of course I have enjoyed learning new skills, but the magnitude of the project and some of the engineering issues regarding gradients have been considerable. One of the things that has really surprised me is the amount of pleasure I have gained from new areas of modelling. Initially I couldn't see past long track runs and therefore the focus was on track and RTR stock. As time has gone on, I've realised that there is far more to railway modelling and the pleasure to be had from every aspect of this hobby has completely changed my view on what is the primary focus of any layout. Getting away from the whole thing for a holiday in St Lucia was the best thing that could have happened to me at this time. Both my wife and I are quite happy relaxing so whilst she was reading I was reviewing the whole layout on Templot and the decison has been made to simplify the whole layout. I will still be able to run full length trains, but the whole layout will now be on one level and ET will now be a through station, rather than a terminus. The other side of the room will be an 18 road storage yard, that should hold around 30 complete trains of various lengths. Yes, it is still a large layout, but now it should be totally manageable and without the major problem of gradients. Seeing GN's progress on Peterborough North has certainly given me inspiration to push ahead with this change and now doubt Tetleys Mill 3 will be progressing rapidly once Dave has finished his house. As highlighted on here many times, time is a finite resource and it is the lack of progress on a large project that saps your motivation until everything grinds to a halt. Hopefully this will allow me to progress much faster, rather than give up railway modelling completely. I've still got some final tweaks to make on the Templot plan, but here is the first pass on Eastwood Town's new station layout. There are basically six loops to allow trains from both the Eastern and Midland regions to run through the same station. Up and Down lines for both regions plus a double loop for freight which will serve an industrial area each side of the main station. Storage was a massive issue on the earlier plans and removing the various gradients has allowed a whole new storage yard on the opposite side of the room. 18 roads, each over 18' in length effectivel doubles the storage of the traverser that featured in the inital plan. The next step will to pack away all those divertions that have given me so much pleasure and get focussed on the actual build. Here's hoping this will prove to be the way forward and ET will finally come to life..... 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ian Posted October 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2011 That's another enjoyable aspect of the hobby. Planning 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I'm sure it'll be a very professional, well planned job whatever you do Gordon. But some of those loops you've been through ... familiar somehow ... Have to admit to waxing and waining myself over the years between super ambitious layout plans to easier to manage simpler affairs that might actually have a chance of completion. I've found that on an ambitious layout the sheer number of different things to do has lead me to total stagnation - result - nothing gets done! Sound familiar? I've had the same through the summer this year - the end result of which has lead to me to abandon my large 00 layout 'Midland Junction' and turn to O Gauge. This at least has stimulated me and re-invigorated my enthusiasm. Good luck with it Regards Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The way you have the station laid out Gordon, you can just imagine the heavy expresses thundering through, whilst the local suburban trains, freights & parcels carry on slowly. It will be great to watch what you do with this one. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hate to admit it, G, but I never could work out the the last plan - I trusted your judgement! Look forward to reborn ET! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 25, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well Gordon, it turned out to be a mutual assistance class while you were relaxing in St Lucia! I reckon that's one of the best things about this hobby- people's willingness to share advice and information. I'm glad to have been of some assistance, and I can't wait to see what a combination of this new plan and your multitude of talents will reveal over the coming months. The great thing is that you will see quite rapid tangible results, which I can assure you is a terrific motivator. Those station buildings do look very nice Will you have room for the other stuff as well, particularly the Maltings, which was always my favourite? I look forward to seeing the plan when it's finished, particularly the fiddle yard solution. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Gordon, Intrigued to watch your progress with the new layout design. Your work has been a real inspiration to me up to now and I'm sure that will continue. Best wishes, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Fantastic: Another big roundy-roundy layout. They are the new black! I can't quite put my finger on why they endure - maybe something to do with the original train set circuit that is deeply embedded in our psyche? They joy of watching the trains go-by, whatever it is: best of luck with this. I hate to say it but I was always a little scared by your ultimate Eastwood Town plan. There were elements of it that I really liked - the flyover and the multiple levels but I never quite bought the idea that the terminus would work - I was also worried about how much time your trains were going to spend climbing up to the scenic section. In reality termini can be quite static with only small movements here and there as trains arrive and depart and to do the bigger ones justice so much space is required. This new idea is easy to imagine a more fluid and ever-changing scene not unlike what Gilbert has excelled with at Peterborough North. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Gordon, that is some change. If you can still have full length trains without gradients and lots of over and under passes, go for it. When I was intially in the planning stages i was planning an inverted 8, but decided to keep it simple and flat with a shallow viaduct to come. Look forward to seeing how it all comes together. good luck Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artizen Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Just do it! You have obviously made your mind up and you seem to be getting total support from all of us on here as well. Just don't build it on the table again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) This is still very much a first pass as I have to finish the good facilities and the shed. ET shed will come off a road at the station and go down the side of the yard, with the shed at right angles to the storage area, and then extending across the room to finish 3' away from the station on a peninsular. To each side of the station will be industrial units with rail and road access. Directly opposite the station building will be a 75mm retaining wall with a road and terrace housing beyond. I probably have another week of drawing in Templot before finally arriving at a design that will function properly. Despite the trials and tribulations of the past, I do like to cover most operational issues whilst the plan is still on the screen, so I will pick it up for a few hours at a time and make minor corrections before starting to cut wood and build pointwork. The goods loops will sit 25mm above the main running lines to give a little variety and overcome the flat earth appearance of lines all on one level. I'm hoping the open top construction will also allow roads or a river to pass under the tracks. I may consider reducing the length of the loops to see if I can gain a little more scenic area, but like everything we attempt, there is always a trade off between storage requirements and scenic areas. Edited October 25, 2011 by gordon s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's book-matched or mirror imaged left to right? Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Hi Gordon, If the design is still fluid have you considered making it a junction station with a bit of a branch line? Even if only a single DMU to a buffer stop and single platform above/behind/in front of the fiddle yard? The extra operational interest of having a train which departs and arrives somewhere else on the same layout is considerable, and you can have fun arranging the connecting stopping services at the junction. If you can add something else down the branch such as an industrial private siding, the junction operations become that much more interesting. And it adds a bit more scenic potential. Also, if you have non-modeller visitors, you can let them have a "play" on the branch without risking them creating mayhem on the main tracks. Now you have the TDV in Templot you can post your plans here in diagram mode, which looks much neater than a screenshot. You can also add the platforms in Templot, or even use the new sketchboard feature to add some colourful scenic detail. p.s. Here's Railcar D arriving at Adavoyle Junction, having crossed from the Monaghan Branch behind the signal box: regards, Martin. Edited October 25, 2011 by martin_wynne 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's book-matched or mirror imaged left to right? Best, Pete. Well spotted, Pete! One of the easy things with Templot is to make mirror images which can be used as a starting point. It's such a flexible yet complex programme, producing a mirror image, particularly of a storage yard simplifies the work considerably. I set myself pretty rigid design considerations in terms of track spacing and in particular minimum radii for both normal curves and pointwork. When you have 18 tracks to deal with, every one is has to be designed from scratch to maximise the storage length, yet not fall foul of the minimum restrictions you have set. It's that which has taken a while to crack. I have done many through station designs before, but they all fell down on my own self imposed restictions. I was beginning to think it was an impossible task and it wasn't until I escaped on holiday was I able to solve the problem. As I said at the beginning, this is very much a first pass and it's easier to create a mirror image in some respects and then tailor one or both ends to disguise it started that way. Of course once you add buildings etc, it moves the whole thing away from it's original design. Think of it more as a sketch rather than the final design. It was pretty nigh impossible to feed 18 tracks from just two feeds. I have just 14' width to play with as the slope of the roof and the height of the boards from the ground dictates the available width. Each turnout has a minimum of 3' radius, but most are 4'-6' radii. A ladder stack approach will need the best part of 6'-8' each end to achieve the multiple feeds to cover each road. I have tried putting each turnout on the curve and whilst this provided more scenic space, it compromised the length of each road, so I went for six feeds, each with three storage roads. The final design constraint came from the station buildings themselves. I have no regret buying them at all, but they need six tracks and eight foot platforms for it to look acceptable. So once again a 4' radius curve each end and 8' of platform and you suddenly see that 18' length sounds a lot, but in reality is 8-10' too short. It's simply a statement of fact, not a complaint. I recognise I'm lucky to have this space available, but 26' x 18' would be better. I just accept there are compromises to be made. Thanks Martin for your input. There is space to run a small branch in front of the storage roads and I have laid out two bay platforms for local traffic. It would certainly provide a screen for the storage area, although I am concerned it is already three feet deep. Perhaps as an adjunct to the shed, it would make more sense and not compromise access. I will take a look at the diagram mode on the TDV. Apologies, this whole issue had taken over all my spare time and I want to look at the TDV properly to do it justice. I will certainly need asymetrical crossings, so that's another specific area of interest for me. Oh well, in for a penny. Here goes then....It failed the first couple of times as it was over the 256k limit. I reduced the size in Photoshop and all is OK now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yes, it is amazing just how "space" disappears, Gordon............ Martin, so good to see Irish railways at the correct gauge (I'm assuming, it certainly looks right). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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