The Bristolian

[Benjamin Brady]

Hi All

 

I am looking at building a model of the the Bristolian in early BR days once it was re-instated after the war, I am looking to see if anyone can help me with what coaching stock it ran with and what formation this was in.

 

Many Thanks

 

Ben

[Coach bogie]

George Heiron and Kenneth Leech photographs usually show the whole train in books such as 'A Century of Steam' Titled Trains of the Western' +others. Early 50's formation prior to the MK 1's appearing over during 1955, was often a full rake of Hawksworths + a GWR Buffet (with long counter such as H41). The Buffet was noticable as the headboard is roof mounted compared to the Hawksworths that carried the boards above the windowline.

 

Seven coaches Mon-Thursday, usually with a Castle up front. If it has a King on it was a Friday usually with an extra coach.

 

Brake third x 2, composites x 3, third x 1 and buffet. Extra third Friday/Saturday (often non matching stock)

 

One of the Railway Roundabout videos includes a detailed film of the preparation and run with 7018 in the MK 1 era.

 

Although in the timetable, the postwar Bristolian was no faster than any other Bristol - Paddington express, the 105 minute timings not being restored until 1954.

 

In 1953 the headboard carried the addition of a crown, for one year only, due to the Coronation.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[robertcwp]

This might help.

 

I don't think the crown was carried for the whole of 1953 - only the period around the Coronation.

Bristolian Notes 4-4-11.pdf

[Coach bogie]

This might help.

 

 

 

Be cautious if using these notes as they are based on Official diagrams NOT what actually happened. In 1951 the Mark 1's were only just entering service and photographs suggest the WR was still using Hawksworth stock, some of which was brand new. Prior to the accelerated service in 1954 photographs show some Mark 1 stock appearing within formations but I have not found any evidence of a complete Mark 1 set as the diagram suggests. The 1954 accelerated service diagram listed shows it's back to all GWR stock and a 7 coach formation with buffets either H41/53 until the mid 50's. The Bristolian definately had dedicated mark 1 set in 1956 when the train was relaunched with chocolate and cream stock.

 

As always use dated photographs. Heiron/Leech were very active in the Bath /Chipping Sodbury area in the 50's and their photographs show what was actually happening.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Benjamin Brady]

Hi Mike/Rob

 

Many thanks for this information which I might add has been a great help, also great help with what coaching stock actually ran and the locos, well think it is time to start building and I think a Friday service is in order with a King on the front, with original western region coaching stock.

 

Once again

 

Many thanks

 

Benjamin

[Coach bogie]

1958 Bristolian film with Castle and Mark 1's (still a GW H53 buffet) from Railway Roundabout here.

 

Note 7018 couples up to a Hawksworth not seen on runby shots

 

Superb interior shots of a working GW buffet car

 

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

 

If you want a set of headboards/coach boards I can recommend these

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160456302619&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Stationmaster]

1958 Bristolian film with Castle and Mark 1's (still a GW H53 buffet) from Railway Roundabout here.

 

Superb interior shots of a working GW buffet car

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Complete with a young looking Peter Murren (sp?) as one of the attendants - who retired in late 1985 not long after some trips as Chief Steward on several of the GW 150 'record breaking' runs of that year.

[robertcwp]

Be cautious if using these notes as they are based on Official diagrams NOT what actually happened. In 1951 the Mark 1's were only just entering service and photographs suggest the WR was still using Hawksworth stock, some of which was brand new. Prior to the accelerated service in 1954 photographs show some Mark 1 stock appearing within formations but I have not found any evidence of a complete Mark 1 set as the diagram suggests. The 1954 accelerated service diagram listed shows it's back to all GWR stock and a 7 coach formation with buffets either H41/53 until the mid 50's. The Bristolian definately had dedicated mark 1 set in 1956 when the train was relaunched with chocolate and cream stock.

 

As always use dated photographs. Heiron/Leech were very active in the Bath /Chipping Sodbury area in the 50's and their photographs show what was actually happening.

 

Mike Wiltshire

The notes state clearly that they are formations extracted from the carriage workings, and I agree you need to cross-check with photos.

 

The Merchant Venturer was one of the Festival of Britain trains with BR Standard Stock in Summer 1951 and interestingly it is not listed as BR Standard Stock in the Winter 1951-2 workings, suggesting that the Bristolian set listed came largely from the Merchant Venturer minus the catering cars.

 

Photos are more plentiful from the mid-1950s onwards and The Bristolian is a train that usually matches exactly between carriage workings and photos/film (lots of trains don't match). That does not guarantee such a match in 1951 though.

 

The problem with photos is dating - captions are often inaccurate so you need to look for additional evidence, eg condition of loco. It's possible the train was a set of Mark I stock apart from the buffet car by Autumn 1951 as the stock had been introduced earlier that year. In fact, very early on the WR and LMR tended to keep their few sets of Mark I stock together until gangway adaptors had been fitted more generally to their stock of pre-nationalisation designs. There were contemporary reports of this problem in 1951 - the LMR even ended up borrowing vehicles from the SR and ER that had Pullman gangways and buck-eye couplings to substitute for non-available BR Standards in the Royal Scot - a published photo of that train with a Bulleid coach in the set confirms this happened.

 

For a photo of a full Mark I set on the Bristolian (apart from buffet car) in 1953 see 'Locomotive Headboards - The Complete Story' by Dave Peel (Sutton Publishing 2006) page 20. Never mind the caption, the photo can be dated to 1953 by the Coronation crown on the headboard. However, the one slightly odd thing is that the train appears to be running on the relief lines.

[The Stationmaster]

Admittedly a good few years before my time but according to the final Yardmaster at Old Oak passenger yard - who I knew well in his final years on the railway at Paddington and who had worked either there or at West London since the early 1950s - there was always h*ll to pay and lots of 'phone calls passing to & fro if the 'prestige trains' were not correctly formed. Obviously vehicles had to be swopped for maintenance or defect reasons and catering vehicles had to come out for heavy cleaning plus vehicles would be added for strengthening but normally they did their utmost to keep those trains formed as per the book/any nominated vehicles.

[multiprinter]

Complete with a young looking Peter Murren (sp?) as one of the attendants - who retired in late 1985 not long after some trips as Chief Steward on several of the GW 150 'record breaking' runs of that year.

 

Peter was still going strong in mid 1991 as Chief Steward on 0800 Padd - Swansea and 1132 return. A lovely man and a very calm and efficient Chief Steward. Nothing flustered him, even a late swap of sets leaving him to organise breakfast from a TRB with its small kitchen.

One morning a passenger complained that there were no baked beans with the fried breakfast. Peter, in his politest manner, said 'This is English breakfast sir'

[The Stationmaster]

Peter was still going strong in mid 1991 as Chief Steward on 0800 Padd - Swansea and 1132 return. A lovely man and a very calm and efficient Chief Steward. Nothing flustered him, even a late swap of sets leaving him to organise breakfast from a TRB with its small kitchen.

One morning a passenger complained that there were no baked beans with the fried breakfast. Peter, in his politest manner, said 'This is English breakfast sir'

 

Isn't odd how passing time plays tricks and merges all those years into one (good excuse that), I was sure that he'd finished much earlier.

[Keegs]

On 05/04/2011 at 06:21, robertcwp said:

This might help.

 

I don't think the crown was carried for the whole of 1953 - only the period around the Coronation.

Bristolian Notes 4-4-11.pdf 71.41 kB · 205 downloads

Sorry for reviving a dead thread but I’m trying to reproduce “The Bristolian” in 1935-6. Would the formation here for 1937-38 be the same as earlier, and if so what is the Diagram of the “First (7 compartments)” ? 
 

Thanks,

Kegan

[Coach bogie]

I have a Soole image which has an ex artic first, A18. Others look like an A20

 

Mike Wiltshire

[phil_sutters]

On 04/04/2011 at 14:24, Coach bogie said:

Seven coaches Mon-Thursday, usually with a Castle up front. If it has a King on it was a Friday usually with an extra coach.

Mike Wiltshire

In the final weeks of steam on this service Kings also appeared on Mondays it would seem. King George VI on 1st June 1959 and King Charles II on the 8th.

Sorry, I don't have an earlier photo. Dad was snapping in the 1930s, but not around Bristol.

 

[Steamport Southport]

Funnily enough King Charles II was the one in the Hornby train pack, albeit in 1930s condition. If you do a search there may be some still lurking on shelves if anyone wants one. I managed to get one heavily discounted from somewhere.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164492/hornby_r3401_the_bristolian_train_pack_limited_edition/stockdetail

 

 

I don't think Hornby have done any Firsts. They certainly haven't done any suitable dining vehicles.

 

 

 

They also did a pack a few years ago with a Britannia (Venus) and Mk1s.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=1653

 

 

 

 

Jason

[robertcwp]

On 09/03/2022 at 21:22, Keegs said:

Sorry for reviving a dead thread but I’m trying to reproduce “The Bristolian” in 1935-6. Would the formation here for 1937-38 be the same as earlier, and if so what is the Diagram of the “First (7 compartments)” ? 
 

Thanks,

Kegan

1935/6 winter 10.0 am Paddington-Bristol was Van Third, Third, Composite, Buffet Car, Composite, Third, Van Third.