2EPB & 4EPB inner ends and rooves

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

As I have just about finished my N gauge 2HAP (BR Design) (just needs the final varnish coats when the weather improves again) so I decided it was time to take a look at the next EMU project(s).

 

I plan to build a 2EPB and a 4EPB both BR designed versions. Now the DMBS are I believe identical to the 2HAP I have just built, however, I cannot find any conclusive pictures or details of the inner ends for the 2EPB DTS or the 4EPB TSO. Are they just plain with the connector box at the top or do they also have foot steps?

 

For the 2EPB does anyone have any information on the layout of the pipes on the rooves?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[pete_mcfarlane]

Bit of a minefield, as the units seem to have been built in batches with differences between them. Here's a good photo of a 2-EPB inner end at the SEMG.

 

The 2 and 4 EPB motor coaches had detail differences:

 

2-EPB units were 1951 type stock with cables on the roof. There are at least two different arrangements of the cables on the standard units (and a third on the Tyneside ones).

4-EPB units were 1957 type units, with different underfloor equipment and no cabling on the roof. Some later units had smaller headcode panels and Commonwealth trailer bogies.

 

I struggled with the roof cabling when I did my 2-EPB - it was mostly done from photos taken at not very helpful angles. Try BR Fleet Survey volume 10 (Ian Allen) and "Southern Electric Multiples Units 1948-1983" by Colin Marsden. They have some useful pictures.

[PaulCheffus]

Bit of a minefield, as the units seem to have been built in batches with differences between them. Here's a good photo of a 2-EPB inner end at the SEMG.

 

The 2 and 4 EPB motor coaches had detail differences:

 

2-EPB units were 1951 type stock with cables on the roof. There are at least two different arrangements of the cables on the standard units (and a third on the Tyneside ones).

4-EPB units were 1957 type units, with different underfloor equipment and no cabling on the roof. Some later units had smaller headcode panels and Commonwealth trailer bogies.

 

I struggled with the roof cabling when I did my 2-EPB - it was mostly done from photos taken at not very helpful angles. Try BR Fleet Survey volume 10 (Ian Allen) and "Southern Electric Multiples Units 1948-1983" by Colin Marsden. They have some useful pictures.

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I hadn't seen that image which confirms the inner end for the 2EPB DTS.

 

I have both of those books whilst not bad for the rooves don't unfortunately give much away for the 4EPB trailer inner ends.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

The 2 and 4 EPB motor coaches had detail differences:

 

2-EPB units were 1951 type stock with cables on the roof. There are at least two different arrangements of the cables on the standard units (and a third on the Tyneside ones).

4-EPB units were 1957 type units, with different underfloor equipment and no cabling on the roof. Some later units had smaller headcode panels and Commonwealth trailer bogies.

Not sure I quite follow you here. 2-HAP and both 2- and 4-EPB units were all built in separate batches to both 1951 and 1957 designs, and they are indeed very different. The 1951 versions have a broadly Bulleid profile, as befits units that were in effect a next-generation of the 4-Sub design. The 1957 stock is of a BR Standard design. The South Tyneside 2-EPB units were to 1957 design, but had 2-ton brakes and fewer compartments. These three classes of unit cover 6 different types, with the Tyneside units adding a seventh. I suggest individual drawings for the type in question to be an essential basis for any sort of model.

[PaulCheffus]

Not sure I quite follow you here. 2-HAP and both 2- and 4-EPB units were all built in separate batches to both 1951 and 1957 designs, and they are indeed very different. The 1951 versions have a broadly Bulleid profile, as befits units that were in effect a next-generation of the 4-Sub design. The 1957 stock is of a BR Standard design. The South Tyneside 2-EPB units were to 1957 design, but had 2-ton brakes and fewer compartments. These three classes of unit cover 6 different types, with the Tyneside units adding a seventh. I suggest individual drawings for the type in question to be an essential basis for any sort of model.

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have drawings but they only appear to show the driving car inner ends not the TSO inner ends.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

This pic from Robert Carroll's flickr collection gives some roof detail. Some of his other stuff might be useful, too.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Not sure I quite follow you here. 2-HAP and both 2- and 4-EPB units were all built in separate batches to both 1951 and 1957 designs, and they are indeed very different. The 1951 versions have a broadly Bulleid profile, as befits units that were in effect a next-generation of the 4-Sub design. The 1957 stock is of a BR Standard design. The South Tyneside 2-EPB units were to 1957 design, but had 2-ton brakes and fewer compartments. These three classes of unit cover 6 different types, with the Tyneside units adding a seventh. I suggest individual drawings for the type in question to be an essential basis for any sort of model.

 

 

The "1951" and "1957" designations apply to the control gear used on the units, not when they were built.

 

From a modelling viewpoint this means different underframe equipment between the two types and whether the unit has lighting cables etc on the roof (1951 type units do, 1957 type units don't). The roof cabling makes the 1951 type units trickier to model.

 

The BR designed units used both types of control gear. 2-EPBs were built from 1954-1958 and all had 1951 type control gear. The BR design 4-EPB units were all 1957 type units, and 2-HAPs a mix.

 

These photos show the difference in roof detail:

 

1951 type roof (2-EPB)

 

1957 type roof (4-EPB)

 

 

 

 

[roythebus]

1951 and 1957 as oldddudddddeeerrs points out had different body designs too. the earlier had the Bullied body shape, the 1957 stock the BR standard body shape as well as major underframe differences.

[Lyddrail]

Paul,

I hope the following is of use. As said above there are many differences between a BR 2 EPB and BR 4EPB, traction equipment, roof vents and conduit runs etc.

 

2EPB roofs etc:

 

 

4EPB general info:

 

 

There were more than one batch of BR 2EPBs and 4EPBs causing further differences.

 

Cheers.

[PaulCheffus]

Paul,

I hope the following is of use.

 

Hi Paul

 

Yes it is and many thanks for posting those.

 

A couple of questions.

 

The drawing mentions that some of the inner ends on the centre coaches had alarm gear. Would this have been one end of each trailing coach or both ends of one of the trailing coaches? I'm guessing the former.

 

The drawing also mentions that some of the inner ends had footsteps would this be on the same end as the alarm gear or the opposite end?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Lyddrail]

Paul,

 

Alarm gear at one end of each coach. Steps at both ends (I think) from new later removed except for bottom step (can't remember when).

 

Cheers.