How are etched brass kits made ?

[Guest stuartp]

So, what do modellers prefer? A business that can only be reached by snail mail or one that responds to questions promptly by email?

 

One that stocks what I'm looking for. If John only accepted orders by carrier pigeon or in person I would still have bought my Caley Single from him (a long time ago now !) because he was the only manufacturer and I'm grateful that he produced the thing and saved me scratchbuilding one.

 

I can understand how you and others get frustrated at large (or at least full time) businesses who don't answer emails or answer the phone. However, for the smaller traders who don't have email or publicise their phone then that is their choice, I'm guessing that for many of them they are far more valuable to us as modellers than we are to them as customers - they are in fact doing us a favour by staying in business. Provided they don't cash my cheque and do a bunk I'm quite happy to find a stamp for the order and wait for them to get enough together to make a trip to the etchers worthwhile.

[brian777999]

...and what, structurally speaking, are the differences between a GWR single bolster and anyone else's? Buffers and axleboxes can easily be easily exchanged on existing kits to make a fair representation of a GWR vehicle. Also these wagons were common user, so unless you are modelling pre c1930 specific company wagons are not necessary.

 

I am trying to model the era 1900-1906 ; GWR locomotives with red underframes.

[DerekEm8]

With regard to your GWR single bolster model ABS models certainly do a white metal kit for it. Adrian Swain

(Mr ABS/Wrightlines) was at Expo EM at Bracknell last weekend.

 

Another manufacturer not mentioned for cast /etched kits is David Geen. (Specialises in GWR)

 

Google ABS Models, David Geen kits

 

Adrian seems to be only via Post/telephone

David has a full list on line.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol, I hear what you are saying, but I am thoroughly frustrated with trying to do business with British suppliers, including the ones who operate full time operations. Many act as though they are doing you a favour by replying to you, if they ever do. It is not unusual for me to have to send emails several times to most British organisations just in order to receive a reply. And it should be considered that failing to reply to an email is just as rude as not replying to a letter.

 

So many of them are only served by mail, not publishing telephone numbers and only doing business on a Sunday when the moon is blue. In contrast, American companies usually reply the same day and give great service. Why the difference?

 

Yes, emails require you to reply more or less immediately, that's why they were created. And times are changing, so is the way people expect to do business. And they expect to do business by email at the very least.

 

For some time now, the unfavourable exchange rate has been hurting my business, and it is not unusual for me to go 3 to 5 days without a single order coming in. For a full time business like mine, that is not good. But I could not offer the products that I make on a part time basis as they take far longer to assemble than simply packing a few kits at night. At the same time, I try to reply to any incoming email within minutes of it arriving, because that is what is expected and because if I leave it too long I end up with a backlog of communications and frustrated customers.

 

So, what do modellers prefer? A business that can only be reached by snail mail or one that responds to questions promptly by email?

 

Geoff,

 

I can understand the frustrations you describe, I spent most of my career attempting to get the UK dealers of the three different motor manufacturers that I worked for to be more customer focussed, more efficient and more profitable.

 

I can't speak for the UK modelling "industry" (although I know a lot of the small manufacturer/suppliers), just one particular supplier. I accept that many customers want to do business by email, but if the supplier can't cope with it at present, and a slower but still efficient communication system exists, then you have to go with that. Perhaps it's more important for conducting business overseas than within the UK.

 

It is of interest though, that one historical railway society I belong to has over 700 members, but only about 100 have joined the society's internet forum. Perhaps email communication is less important to many modellers, particularly in the older age group, than we think. This forum wouldn't reflect that, obviously.

 

The fact that you provide immediate replies to emails also reinforces the image that all suppliers will do that. It's what the customer wants and comes to expect. If you can't provide that, for reasons already outlined, then frustration and dissatisfaction results. So if you can't deliver that experience, shouldn't you recognise it and let the customer know that you can't.

 

I think that you are portraying an inaccurate picture by saying that producing kits just involves packing a few kits. I am told it takes 20 - 30 minutes just to pack a kit. Add to copying the instructions, rolling etched boilers, ordering new etches, brass castings, nickel castings, nuts, bolts, wire, packaging, etc. When those arrive (especially the castings) they have to be sorted and stored. Recently one whitemetal casting supplier (although some is done in house) abruptly ceased trading, new patterns had to be made and moulds obtained, not a five minute job. Doing everything in house as you do, at least gives you complete control.

 

Jol

[craigwelsh]

I am trying to model the era 1900-1906 ; GWR locomotives with red underframes.

Thought not red between the frames apparently..

 

You'll find even less kits for that period so you might have to etch some yourself or turn to scratch building.

 

Didcot has a pair of 19th C bolsters

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/32337and8/32337and8pic_01.html

 

The reason kits of bolsters like these are usually unpopular is that they tend to have an 8' wb and so need another set of brakes drawing up for them. I think this was the case for the wooden u/f LMS ones I looked at hence I didn't use my chassis kit to do them. I'm not sure if the GWR ones are 8' though.

[brian777999]

With regard to your GWR single bolster model ABS models certainly do a white metal kit for it. Adrian Swain

(Mr ABS/Wrightlines) was at Expo EM at Bracknell last weekend.

 

Another manufacturer not mentioned for cast /etched kits is David Geen. (Specialises in GWR)

 

Google ABS Models, David Geen kits

 

Adrian seems to be only via Post/telephone

David has a full list on line.

 

 

I am fairly certain that ABS models no longer have a web presence. I have looked and cannot find them anymore although I did order from them years ago.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I can agree that if he has a full-time job, then telephone calls are not welcome, however that does not rule out using email. I run my model business on a world-wide basis and email is my preferred method of communication. It takes far less time than written letters and is far less costly. And you can elect to reply to emails any time, so can easily be done out of hours. And it works far better than letters when the information provided by the customer is incomplete or requires clarification.

 

I'm sorry, but I do not regard any of the reasons given as valid for not conducting business in a professional and efficient manner, and in modern times, that means email and a decent web site.

 

It should be remembered that many of the "small suppliers" that support this hobby are not big enough to provide a living wage. Yes, I can relate to that, but what about the small supplier who does it as a full time job, and does not have the luxury of a second job, pension etc.

 

I accept what you say and possibly agree with it. Several caveats though. It doesn't take much multiplication to realise that most of these 'small suppliers' are operating it all as a hobby with all that implies in relation to time spent on it. Websites require almost constant attention from scammers and hackers who attach pop up ads for gambling or XXXXX enlargement and sending credit card details on an open E mail is a recipe for financial suicide for the sender.

 

There is also the time difference to take into account so just as you are settling down to tea your UK small supplier is probably going to work so wont see your E mail for at least 8 hours by which time it is the early hours of the morning where you are........I exaggerate but the point is made.

 

Also the post is currently a nightmare and hugely expensive with high risk of loss or damage en route plus the irrecoverable loss of time in visiting the Post Office to weigh and pay for the package. Frankly, it isn't worth the hassle. Then of course you might say that you are ordering a lot of kit ect but your UK supplier is quite happy visiting a few shows and supplying customers by word of mouth and getting to know fellow modelers and it costing nothing to do all that as sales just about cover costs.

 

The market in Australia or indeed anywhere in the world, UK included, is just plain not big enough for these specialised models to go global or be anything but a hobby.

 

I suspect the same applies for UK modelers of Australian prototypes.

[Kenton]

Didcot has a pair of 19th C bolsters

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/32337and8/32337and8pic_01.html

I'm a little uncertain what the OP is referring to by the term "bolster wagon" especially "GWR bolster wagon", also are we seeking a 4 wheel, 6 wheel or bogie bolster?

The GWR had a range of wagons under separate diagrams and codes (BEAVER C / BEAVER D / POLLENS / TOTEMS / MACAWS / MITES / GANES) all of which can be loosely described as "bolster" wagons.

 

For example that pair at Didcot is a MITE - a permanently coupled pair of MACAWS. There are many variants and much confusion in the diagramming of these vehicles, with quite a few "one-offs". Many designs were tested during the period in question.

 

The issue of wheelbase is worse than you indicated. The J8 MACAW and J9 MITE have a 7'0" wheelbase!

[Kempenfelt]

So, what do modellers prefer? A business that can only be reached by snail mail or one that responds to questions promptly by email?

 

 

Geoff, in an ideal world yes email would be prefered. However, because our hobby tends to be made of suppliers who are modeller's assisting other modeller's as appose to businesses trying to maximise their return, I am happy to adhere to what ever sales methods suit the suppliers. After all, there's not many businesses outside our hobby that I would be willing to wait 6 months for a £30 order!

 

I'm not knocking you're approach Geoff, I very much approve of it! I do however prefer the chance to buy our supplies via the various antiquarian that are available to us, as appose to having the items removed from the market purely because of the hassle put on the supplier and instead leave us to fight over the occasional dog eared kit that may appear on the extortionate car boot sale that is 'flea bay'!

 

This shouldn't deter you from wanting to improve the service of your business using the likes of email, websites and online purchasing, as this will very much improve your sales and customer relations. Derek who is the latest proprieter of Eileen's Emporium is a good example of this. Unfortunately not all suppliers are in the situation for one reason or another to do this and therefore we have to let them make the choice to implement change as appose to demanding it as a customer. We don't have to buy if we don't want to afterall, and I know it takes a lot less effort to adhere to the suppliers terms that it does to design the kit yourself!

 

Best Wishes

 

Paul

 

 

Looks like David White was coming to the same conclusions at the same time! :-)

 

 

[Craigw]

There is also the time difference to take into account so just as you are settling down to tea your UK small supplier is probably going to work so wont see your E mail for at least 8 hours by which time it is the early hours of the morning where you are........I exaggerate but the point is made.

 

Also the post is currently a nightmare and hugely expensive with high risk of loss or damage en route plus the irrecoverable loss of time in visiting the Post Office to weigh and pay for the package. Frankly, it isn't worth the hassle. Then of course you might say that you are ordering a lot of kit ect but your UK supplier is quite happy visiting a few shows and supplying customers by word of mouth and getting to know fellow modelers and it costing nothing to do all that as sales just about cover costs.

 

The market in Australia or indeed anywhere in the world, UK included, is just plain not big enough for these specialised models to go global or be anything but a hobby.

David,

 

I have been buying models from the UK for quite a few years and doing some serious purchasing since I started modelling the GWR in 2004. In that time the only postal problem I have ever had was an Ebay purchase that did not arrive. Though I can prove nothing, I am quite certain it was never sent. So your talk of a nightmare and hugely expensive is not really accurate - especially when "I" pay the cost. It might not be worth the hassle to you, but there are a good number of UK suppliers who have been very helpful to me and other Australian based modellers and I have passed quite a substantial amount of money to them. I have made a minimal number of purchases from "shops" - the majority of my purchases have been from cottage industry suppliers. While there are some suppliers who are very frustrating to deal with, the majority are terrific. In some cases the "good" suppliers have even offered to buy things from the PITA suppliers for me! If a manufacturer decides he only wants to do your word of mouth approach to business that is fine by me, but I have found that most are very helpful when they realise that you want to give them some of your hard earned for their products.

 

regards,

 

Craig Warton

[craigwelsh]

I'm a little uncertain what the OP is referring to by the term "bolster wagon" especially "GWR bolster wagon", also are we seeking a 4 wheel, 6 wheel or bogie bolster?

The GWR had a range of wagons under separate diagrams and codes (BEAVER C / BEAVER D / POLLENS / TOTEMS / MACAWS / MITES / GANES) all of which can be loosely described as "bolster" wagons.

 

For example that pair at Didcot is a MITE - a permanently coupled pair of MACAWS. There are many variants and much confusion in the diagramming of these vehicles, with quite a few "one-offs". Many designs were tested during the period in question.

 

The issue of wheelbase is worse than you indicated. The J8 MACAW and J9 MITE have a 7'0" wheelbase!

The op uses the term single bolster actually which is normally the 4-wheel item used in a pair and the Didcot one is just a permanent pairing of there.

 

Blimey 7', not surprising I guess for 1881 but probably very little chance of anyone bothering to etch that unless they really want one!

[Kenton]

The op uses the term single bolster actually which is normally the 4-wheel item used in a pair and the Didcot one is just a permanent pairing of there.

I guess that narrows it down a bit to the MACAWS (J11 MACAW B (1904), J4 MACAW B (1907), J7 MACAW A, J8 MACAWS) The later J14 (1913) variants (angle trussing, buffers, brake gear) and the even later WWI modifications can all be ignored.

 

Personally, I think this would be quite a challenge in etched form and providing adequate weight for running problematic.

[craigwelsh]

Falcon Brass one was the J8 apparently so it will have that 7' wb mentioned.

WK108 GWR Single Bolster Dia J8 £10.25

 

A sprung mineral wagon can be weighted to 50g easily enough and that has a plastic body so these should be able to get over 40g fine with the brass solebars and floor along with w/m buffers etc.

 

 

ABS don't have a web presence anymore which is a pity as there is a vast range of bits there.

[coachmann]

In olden days, a customers free time was evenings, weekends and bank holidays, which is when most phonecalls arrived. Of course, I was always too polite to tell people that evenings, weekends and bank holidays were also my free time. Sadly it never worked in reverse, as I was occasionally accosted by irate her-indoors who reminded me that I had no right to contact him-indoors in the evenings, weekends and bank holidays, or when 'Coronation Street' was on TV. Today we have emails which circumvent all time barriers.

 

As for time-wasters.......

 

How much do you charge for painting a King in GWR green livery?

£xxx.xx sir.

Right. So if I supplied it in primer how much would it cost?

£20.00 more sir. I would have to strip it and start again in order to guarantee my paintwork.

Do you do lining only?

No.

Er, do you know of any other painters?

A few.

Have you got their phone numbers?

I have.

Fire away, I've got a pen...

999 547 977 541..... Bye.

 

Ten minutes later.....

That number you gave me....................It put me through to police, fire & ambulance..!

[DerekEm8]

(More of Beasts invisible ink)

 

As stated above ABS models Post/Telephone only.

 

39 Napier Road, Poole, BH15 4LX, Tel: 01202 672891 for ABS Models & Wrightlines MAIL ORDER and enquiries.

 

ABS as stated above definitely do GWR bolsters both single and twin with 7' w.b. with both grease and oil axleboxes in the kit. From memory the twin pack can be built as 2 singles or 1 twin.

 

ABS also do a 9'wb single bolster but that may be a bit late for the O.P.

 

Quick pics both, built about 25+ years ago and showing it.

 

7' WB twins

 

9' WB single

[brian777999]

(As stated above ABS models Post/Telephone only.

 

39 Napier Road, Poole, BH15 4LX, Tel: 01202 672891 for ABS Models & Wrightlines MAIL ORDER and enquiries.

 

ABS as stated above definitely do GWR bolsters both single and twin with 7' w.b. with both grease and oil axleboxes in the kit. From memory the twin pack can be built as 2 singles or 1 twin.

 

 

That is it ! Exactly what I have been looking for. I will phone as soon as possible. He probably does a lot of other kits I would like too.

 

The David Geen site is good. He has some interesting kits including an open wagon with curved ends. Some of those would certainly add a bit of character. He does not have a phone number though so it looks like snail mail. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned him before.

[artisan100]

Don't expect a quick reply from David Geen just now. He's currently touring Italy in his motor caravan.

 

Geoff

[craigwelsh]

The David Geen site is good. He has some interesting kits including an open wagon with curved ends. Some of those would certainly add a bit of character. He does not have a phone number though so it looks like snail mail. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned him before.

Mainly because you'd wanted brass kits . The David Geen prices are probably out of date on that 2009 list on the website, material costs and VAT have gone up since (though the latter isn't an issue for you postage will be I guess).

 

Glad the ABS one is useful anyway.

[brian777999]

Mainly because you'd wanted brass kits . The David Geen prices are probably out of date on that 2009 list on the website, material costs and VAT have gone up since (though the latter isn't an issue for you postage will be I guess).

 

Glad the ABS one is useful anyway.

 

Postage costs from the UK are never a problem. The Royal Mail is one of the cheapest and most reliable in the world. It would be a different matter if I was sending mail to the UK. Our postage costs are twice what you would pay !

 

Adrain from ABS prefers to communicate by email : adrian39@talktalk.net

 

Payment can be made using Paypal. His OO gauge catalogue costs 1.50 pound.

[brian777999]

Don't expect a quick reply from David Geen just now. He's currently touring Italy in his motor caravan.

 

Geoff

 

Does anybody know when David Geen is expected back in the UK ? I am very eager to buy some of his brass wagon kits.

[craigwelsh]

Does anybody know when David Geen is expected back in the UK ? I am very eager to buy some of his brass wagon kits.

Which ones do you think are brass? Most of them are w/m and very similar to ABS hence my comment earlier about not suggesting them as you'd asked for brass kits.

[brian777999]

Which ones do you think are brass? Most of them are w/m and very similar to ABS hence my comment earlier about not suggesting them as you'd asked for brass kits.

 

Oh, I thought they were brass. I thought somebody else had said that they were etched brass kits ? Anyway, no problem. There are still at least four white metal kits I wish to purchase from him when he comes back.

[Siberian Snooper]

That is it ! Exactly what I have been looking for. I will phone as soon as possible. He probably does a lot of other kits I would like too.

 

The David Geen site is good. He has some interesting kits including an open wagon with curved ends. Some of those would certainly add a bit of character. He does not have a phone number though so it looks like snail mail. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned him before.

 

 

 

Hi

 

David Geen has an email Address

 

sales@davidgeen.co.uk

 

Cheers

 

SS

[craigwelsh]

Oh, I thought they were brass. I thought somebody else had said that they were etched brass kits ? Anyway, no problem. There are still at least four white metal kits I wish to purchase from him when he comes back.

Some have brass details, his new coaches are mainly brass and his milk tank kit has brass detail but mainly wm. They'll produce decent kits though for 00 but personally in P4 I don't like wm superstructure as it can just bend out of square too easily.

[Adam]

Some have brass details, his new coaches are mainly brass and his milk tank kit has brass detail but mainly wm. They'll produce decent kits though for 00 but personally in P4 I don't like wm superstructure as it can just bend out of square too easily.

 

One has to wonder what exactly you plan on doing to these putative whitemetal bodies Craig? Unless you make a conscious effort to drop them on the floor or trample them underfoot (which, I reckon would be somewhat unreasonable treatment...), then whitemetal bodies are seem very stable, and dad's - 20 years or so older than mine - have never given a problem in that regard in the course of normal handling.

 

Adam