Trains From The West Using Plymouth Millbay

[The Stationmaster]

Picking up a question elsewhere but starting a new thread so it can be found and followed more easily by those who are interested.

I haven't done a plod through the Service Timetable (yet?) but a much simpler amble through the September 1938 edition of the 'Working of Passenger Coaches; for the Exeter and Plymouth Divisions confirms that auto-trains were running between Saltash & Millbay at that time. In fact there were a number of sets involved - on the SX workings (n.b. the number of trailers shown is how they started the dya, cars were detached and attached during the day on some workings)

 

Laira Set 1, loco and 4 trailers, empty from Laira, started work on the 06.16 Saltash - Millbay and stayed on Saltash workings until the evening before working a single return trip between Millbay and Tavistock then stabled at Millbay.

 

Laira Set 2, loco and three trailers, empty from Laira, started work on the 07.04 Keyham - Millbay and then did a mixture of trips from Millbay during the day - mainly Saltash, but also one to St.Germans, one to Liskeard, a daytime return trip to Tavistock and it finished on the 11.10p.m. Millbay - Tavistock returning thence to Laira.

 

Laira Set 3, loco and two trailers, started from Millbay and did 3 return trips to Tavistock before doing two to Saltash then one to Wearde followed by another to Saltash then one to St. Germans before doing another three to Saltash and a finish at Laira.

 

Laira Set 4, loco and four trailers, empty from Laira, started work on the 12,45 Menheniot - Millbay and then worked Millbay - Saltash trips before finishing with either Saltash or Liskeard depending on the day of the week, then empty to Laira.

 

Only two sets worked on Sundays and interestingly the coach programme shows 'Plymouth' instead of 'Millbay' suggesting that perhaps they ran to North Road on a Sunday? (however the Connectional Instruction imply that the trains ran to Millbay - maybe I should take a look in the Service Timetable if I can manage to lift it?)

[R A Watson]

Mike,

 

On a "social" rather than "railway" historical view the three towns Plymouth, Stonehouse & Devonport; followed the waters edge of the Plym, The Sound and the Tamar with very little expansion into the hinterland towards the moor. Indeed the boundary of the fully settled area was the line of the (now) A386, apart from some self centred villages which now form the nucleas of modern districts.

 

The railway routes followed the layout of the mass of the population and Millbay was in the centre with North Road only just a mile from the population edge serving a small market.

 

Following the extensive bombing which badly damaged Millbay, and therefore put more emphasis on North Road by default as a simple replacement, the post war developments moved the population closer towards the moors leaving Plymouth as one of the cities where the Civic Centre is now on the edge!

 

Market forces at the time (pre war) would mean that Millbay was the dominant station.

[D1072]

A good source of info is "The Illustrated History of Plymouth's Railways" [irwell Press].

 

On the arrival of the SDR in 1849, the railway ran well to the north of the town, except at Mutley where there was some development along the main (Tavistock) road running north. Hence the station at Mutley.

 

When the LSWR reached Plymouth in 1876 by running powers over the Launceston branch from Lydford they built their terminus at Devonport King's Road, requiring a new viaduct to bypass Millbay.

In 1877 a new joint station was opened at North Road (the actual road at the top of the hill was effectively the outer town limit originally), much more convenient for LSWR passengers. It was only a few chains from Mutley station, the ends of the platforms could be seen from up side platforms (but not the down due to curvature). This would also allow LSWR passengers to change onto GWR/CR trains if they were travelling on to Cornwall.

 

When the PD&SWJR line from Lydford via Bere Alston was opened in 1890, Devonport LSWR became a through station with another terminus constructed at Friary to the east of the town centre.

 

So - the first part of the GW line into Cornwall- from North Road West Junction to Cornwall Loop Junction - over the viaduct - was built by the LSWR!

[The Stationmaster]

 

So - the first part of the GW line into Cornwall- from North Road West Junction to Cornwall Loop Junction - over the viaduct - was built by the LSWR!

 

I think not - GWR information indicates that the Cornwall Loop, North Road Junction to West Junction was opened by the South Devon Railway on 17 May 1876.

[R A Watson]

You are both right gents, the third side of the triangle was, like the adjacent Mutley station, a joint effort although mainly to the benefit of the passage of L S W R trains to Kings Road.

 

Principle traffic was still, as I mentioned above, to Millbay closer to where the majority of the population lived.

[Ozexpatriate]

I haven't done a plod through the Service Timetable (yet?) but a much simpler amble through the September 1938 edition of the 'Working of Passenger Coaches; for the Exeter and Plymouth Divisions confirms that auto-trains were running between Saltash & Millbay at that time. In fact there were a number of sets involved - on the SX workings

Does anyone know when the steam railmotors were replaced by auto-trains on the Plymouth Millbay-Saltash service? There's some information at plymouthdata.info, including some interesting details of the inaugral run at 2:45pm on May 31st 1904, but the termination dates shown clearly reflect auto-trains. It's my understanding that the steam railmotors were still in service in the very early 1930s and I've somehow formed the impression that the Plymouth suburban services were one of their last services.

 

I've seen the following quote here regarding the railmotors.

These were gradually withdrawn between 1914 and 1935. with many of the earlier withdrawals being converted into auto-trailers for push-pull working with suitably fitted locomotives.

[Gwiwer]

then one to Wearde

 

I have always known the station here as "Defiance Platform" rather than Wearde. Its origin and reason for being was to serve naval requirements with HMS Defiance moored in the waters adjacent to the access road. The location, now effectively a district within Saltash, has always been Wearde however. Railmotors were advertised to Saltash and ran to Defiance for Navy personnel though I believe local residents were not denied use of the service.

 

The platform is still visible as is the original course of the GWR main line which originally ran much closer to the river.

 

It is my understanding that the railmotor service operated into and out of Millbay simply because that accounted for the major traffic flow in the inter-war years.

[Captain Kernow]

I have always known the station here as "Defiance Platform" rather than Wearde. Its origin and reason for being was to serve naval requirements with HMS Defiance moored in the waters adjacent to the access road.

The location is still referred to as 'Wearde' by local railway staff and the remains of Defiance Platforms are still extant.

 

The relatively late arrival on the scene of North Road station, of course, accounts for the otherwise rather odd closeness of North Road and Mutley stations.