Building an N gauge coach kit

[DavidK71]

On 08/02/2015 at 22:33, R Marshall said:

I'm just starting out with an Etched Pixels Thompson CL

Yay, always good to hear of someone making coaches in N/2mm 🙂

 

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Did you try to keep the underframe clear of paint where it's inset to take the sides, or will the impact adhesive lock on to the paint anyway? I'm worried a lighter strip might show through.

I do try to keep most of where I'll glue the sides free of paint. This isn't so much about whether it will adhere (though that is a valid concern), as Evostick Impact tends to react a bit with paint it comes into contact with, so if you're not careful enough you get a sticky glue-paint mixture that, if it shows anywhere, can be difficult to get rid of. I try to make sure that the paint covers the ends and goes a little bit under where the sides fit, and when gluing the sides I will try to not have any glue too near to the edges of the sides.

 

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In the meantime I need to drill for grab handles before rolling some curve into the sides - this is the bit I dread most!

Just take your time and you'll be fine 🙂

 

Good luck, and post some pictures!

Edited September 6, 2022 by DavidK71

[Karhedron]

Only one post in 2014, and now it's 2015 already. How did that happen? So, not a lot got finished in 2014, but one vehicle did make it off the workbench: this odd little thing is an Etched Pixels O.13 GWR milk brake, in BR(W) crimson.

 

milk.jpg

 

This consists of brass sides and ends overlaying a 3D printed shell, with an underframe made from a cut-and-shut of two Peco brake van underframes. While not in the same league as richbrummitt's 2mm reduction from a Blacksmith's kit (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/416/entry-8241-back-of-the-queue-o13-milk-van-part-2/), it does look the part. If I were to do another I would try harder to get the 3D printed roof smoother (possibly with Halfords filler primer) and the rainstrips are a bit too prominent, but overall I am pleased with the finished result.

Hi David,

 

That is a great model you have produced there. I must get around to finishing my other 2 off. The cut-n-shut of the underframes turned out very well. I put my departmental version on a Farish 4-wheeled chassis but it turned out to be a bit too long and I had to cut it down anyway (I suspect that the 4-wheelers may have changed over the many years they were in production).

 

[R Marshall]

David,

 

Here's a few pictures of my 1st foray into coach kits - this is an Etched Pixels Thompson CL.

 

I'll do what you did earlier and try to show the progress I (hopefully) make. My pictures won't be up to your standard, but here goes.

 

The first pictures show the 3D-printed bodyshell with underframe details, etched ends, buffers, bogies and couplings added. The 3D-printed roof is also shown with the torpedo ventilators added - these were very fiddly to fit.

 

I tried the assembly with the recommended short NEM couplers on some settrack 3rd and 4th radius curves, to ensure it would couple up to other carriage stock without buffer lock. Coupling was a bit hit and miss, but I don't plan to use curves as tight as this anyway and I can always substitute longer NEMs (say 1 in 2?) if there are still problems. The assembly is very light at this point, so I'm wondering whether I'll need to add some weight.

 

When I've finished this to my satisfaction (don't hold your breath) I plan to add 2 brake 3rds to form a typical NE Region "Link B" set.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

 

[DavidK71]

On 23/02/2015 at 15:06, R Marshall said:

Here's a few pictures of my 1st foray into coach kits - this is an Etched Pixels Thompson CL.

It's looking very good 🙂

 

On 23/02/2015 at 15:06, R Marshall said:

The 3D-printed roof is also shown with the torpedo ventilators added - these were very fiddly to fit.

One problem with these printed roofs is that they're not very smooth. I know it's not a very helpful suggestion after you've done all that work getting the vents in, but it might be worth taking them off, then spraying the roof with something like Halfords filler primer and sanding it down to get a smoother finish. I spent a while painting and sanding the roof of the milk brake I posted a photo of, and even so I'm not entirely happy with the roof.

 

Of course, you might also decide to not worry about it 🙂

 

On 23/02/2015 at 15:06, R Marshall said:

The assembly is very light at this point, so I'm wondering whether I'll need to add some weight.

Are there white-metal battery boxes to go on? They add some useful weight underneath.

Edited September 6, 2022 by DavidK71

[R Marshall]

David,

 

Yes, there is a battery box on the off-side in the pictures - I should have thought to photograph both sides, of course, but it's an etched front over a 3D-printed rear - no weight to speak of - I could add some white metal or lead behind it - if I keep it to the same profile, or, better still, flat against the underside, it shouldn't be too obvious. The only other available space for weight is in the central lavatory compartment, which isn't large, but has the advantage of frosted windows. I guess the lower the better though.

 

I don't know whether I can bear to take off all the (17) ventilators, in case I make holes in the roof. I might try sanding the roof carefully without removing them - I'll give this some thought and test the filler primer on some scrap to see how much it obscures detail. The most pronounced lines in the 3D-print are longitudinal either side of the flatter central section which holds the vents. I realise I'll have to be very gentle with the sanding to make sure I don't remove the gutters (there must be a specific name for these on a coach) at the roof edges.

 

The (Dapol) bogies are fitted for lighting, with pickups in place - I plan to paint the outside of the pickups, because they stand out too much in those pictures, and I think I'll paint the coupler sockets - they're opaque.

 

Your comments much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[R Marshall]

David,

 

Please could you post a picture of the jig you made for rolling coach sides?

 

I've read the description earlier in the thread, but it would be so easy to get it wrong.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[Atso]

David,

 

Yes, there is a battery box on the off-side in the pictures - I should have thought to photograph both sides, of course, but it's an etched front over a 3D-printed rear - no weight to speak of - I could add some white metal or lead behind it - if I keep it to the same profile, or, better still, flat against the underside, it shouldn't be too obvious. The only other available space for weight is in the central lavatory compartment, which isn't large, but has the advantage of frosted windows. I guess the lower the better though.

 

I don't know whether I can bear to take off all the (17) ventilators, in case I make holes in the roof. I might try sanding the roof carefully without removing them - I'll give this some thought and test the filler primer on some scrap to see how much it obscures detail. The most pronounced lines in the 3D-print are longitudinal either side of the flatter central section which holds the vents. I realise I'll have to be very gentle with the sanding to make sure I don't remove the gutters (there must be a specific name for these on a coach) at the roof edges.

 

The (Dapol) bogies are fitted for lighting, with pickups in place - I plan to paint the outside of the pickups, because they stand out too much in those pictures, and I think I'll paint the coupler sockets - they're opaque.

 

Your comments much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Roy

 

On the rare occasions that I use the white strong and flexible material, I usually use a very runny superglue applied using some kind of spatula. Once set it makes the plastic much easier to sand as the glue fills in the pores but be careful not to stick yourself to it.!

[DavidK71]

Please could you post a picture of the jig you made for rolling coach sides?

I'm not sure if it deserves the grand title of 'jig', but here goes with a very quick photograph:

 

 

Unfortunately the card seems to have warped a bit, it used to be flat, but you still get the idea: an etched coach side can rest with the bottom of the side raised up, ready for gentle rolling with a metal rod of some kind. Hope this helps ...

[R Marshall]

David,

 

That's great - thanks very much.

 

Scared myself earlier, having drilled the sides for grab and door handles (the positions are marked out on the sides to make this easy - I used a pin vice and a very fine drill bit, not trusting myself with my powered mini-drill on these fine etchings) and cut a couple of handles off the etch for a trial fit, while the sides are still flat. They're just about at the limit of what I can see and handle! Still, I think I can manage, but I'm going to make up a small jig around which to form the grab handles. If it does the job, I'll put up a picture.

 

I might be doing a lot of whinging, but these are undoubtedly great kits.

 

REgards,

 

Roy

[R Marshall]

Well I finished drilling the sides and plucked up the courage to roll in the tumble home. I'm not completely satisfied, but it's a first attempt and I think they fit more or less. I found that they take the curve better near the ends than in the middle and part of the problem is that the top of the roll line is close to the bottom of the window line and I didn't want to put a fold in along the bottom of the windows, so have (hopefully) erred on the side of caution.

 

The etches are also thinner vertically along the edges of the doors, so they need careful handling.

 

After that I fitted the door handles and half of the grab handles and drop lights. All of the handle parts are very small and need a lot of care - I used sellotape to hold them in place on the outside, while I fed in some glue from the back. Some of the handles went pinging away into the carpet - lost for ever. I need to go and lay down in a darkened room for a bit. 

 

Pictures later when I've finished the handles, droplights and ventilators ( I did one of these and found it just as challenging as the other details) and tidied things up a bit.

[DavidK71]

Some of the handles went pinging away into the carpet - lost for ever. I need to go and lay down in a darkened room for a bit.

I generally lose at least a third of the door handles to the floor...

[DavidK71]

A bit more progress on the TPM conversions of the Dapol B-set coaches. First of all, the C.60 full third:

 

This is the K40 full brake, showing the end converted to a TPO gangway:

 

Underframe modifications have been completed, and the underframes and bogies sprayed matt black. The roofs have been sanded flat, then sprayed with primer, then sanded again where needed, then sprayed etc. what feels like fifity times, but at least the old roof ribs and ventilators are gone. New ventilators are from Etched Pixels, new roof ribs are some 0.5mm tape I found online, and the water tank covers came from the spare etches box. After some debate, I have decided to leave off attempting the roof handrails.

 

One change I've made is that I want to follow my usual approach of painting the sides before attaching them (they are just held on with blutac for checking and photography purposes), so I've put a thin layer of plasticard behind where the etched sides have holes to represent the door locks, necessitating yet more filing off material from the donor body sides. The result looks like it will work, though. There is also an interior in the full third, though it's not come out visible in the photograph.

 

Next is spraying the ends and roof, then painting the coach sides, glazing and final assembly.

Edited June 4, 2015 by DavidK71

[DavidK71]

Some nice weather has seen spraying happen, and as a result the H.24 restaurant coach has emerged from the paint shop:

 

 

As mentioned in a previous post, this is made up of all sorts of bits from Etched Pixels (floor, trussing, corridor connectors, vents and some of the underframe), the 2mm Association (bogies and battery boxes), Masterclass Models (roof), Bill Bedford (sides and ends) and 3d printing from Shapeways (gas cylinders, kitchen roof vent and some of the interior). I was inspired to do this by a photograph of W9557W marshalled in a train leaving Paddington in Rusell Volume 2. The coach is unusual in having no tumblehome at all on either the sides or the ends, giving it a very distinctive, 'boxy' appearance that I think is rather appealing, or at least unusual.

Edited September 26, 2018 by DavidK71

[R Marshall]

Here are pictures of the Diagram 338 Thompson CL. I'm embarrassed at the quality compared to those in the previous post.

 

The light wasn't really sufficient in the conservatory, but they show progress so far:

 

- the etched sides are in red primer and I plan to spray them with carmine tomorrow;

 

-  the roof has been sprayed with Halfords' light grey bumper paint, sanded as far as possible with the ventilators aready glued in place and resprayed - I plan to add rain strips and then it'll be weathered and varnished;

 

-  the main body, underframe and bogies are in satin black, also to be weathered and varnished - there's a lot of overspray into the interior, but I decided I didn't want to leave any of the white 3D print material showing around the edges - I'll paint the interior by hand after the varnishing.

 

It's probably an obvious point, but the 3D material is so light that it needs anchoring before spraying - I blu-tacked it to a piece of MDF.

 

I've said, on another forum, how I was surprised to find that there were tiny holes in the etched sides which stood out after priming - I'd thought they might have been filled with the spray. I was puzzled by them - the instructions made no reference - but, when I looked more carefully at a Paul Bartlett picture of the prototype CL, I realised that they were for the door stops, which prevent the doors bashing the coach sides when opened. Applying these is a job for steadier hands and better eyes than mine, so I fed a little paint into the holes from the rear, making sure that there was no overspill on to the outer surface.

[DavidK71]

The roof has been sprayed with Halfords' light grey bumper paint, sanded as far as possible with the ventilators aready glued in place and resprayed - I plan to add rain strips and then it'll be weathered and varnished;

The roof seems to be the real challenge with these 3D printed bodies - I've yet to manage to paint one myself that I'm entirely happy with. I have wondered about the practicality of printing a roof or two in FUD or FXD with the rainstrip as part of the printing process. One day I will get round to trying this.

[DavidK71]

A few more completed coaches: this time I've got the TPM conversions done. First, both sides of the C.60, as W5703:

 

 

 

And this is the K.40, as W1177W. John at Precision Labels printed the decals for me, based on artwork I supplied (which I made with Inkscape):

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by DavidK71

[D869]

I like the transfers David. Do you know what ink colours John used for this?

 

Regards, Andy

[Chris Higgs]

Some nice weather has seen spraying happen, and as a result the H.24 restaurant coach has emerged from the paint shop:

 

coach2.jpg

coach1.jpg

 

As mentioned in a previous post, this is made up of all sorts of bits from Etched Pixels (floor, trussing, corridor connectors, vents and some of the underframe), the 2mm Association (bogies and battery boxes), Masterclass Models (roof), Bill Bedford (sides and ends) and 3d printing from Shapeways (gas cylinders, kitchen roof vent and some of the interior). I was inspired to do this by a photograph of W9557W marshalled in a train leaving Paddington in Rusell Volume 2. The coach is unusual in having no tumblehome at all on either the sides or the ends, giving it a very distinctive, 'boxy' appearance that I think is rather appealing, or at least unusual.

 

Are the gas cylinders etc available for purchase on Shapeways? I could do with a few of those

 

Chris

[DavidK71]

On 07/09/2015 at 17:43, D869 said:

I like the transfers David. Do you know what ink colours John used for this?

 

I asked for them to be printed in yellow, and John replied that he could do them in "pure lemon yellow", which I took to mean printing them in CMYK with yellow on full and everything else off. I had half expected it to be too aggressively yellow, but decided to try it to see what I got, and was rather pleased with the results. I suspect that the difficulty of printing pure yellow for any printer means that it doesn't come out that strong.

 

In case it's of interest to anyone, I just used the text tool in Inkscape to generate the text, in 3.2 point "Gill Sans MT", which I already had installed on this Windows box as part of Office 2010. The font size and line spacing was chosen by just printing out the required text on a normal printer at several different sizes and spacings, cutting out the square with the text on, holding it over the etched sides with tweezers and comparing against a photograph until I got what seemed to me the best match.

 

On 07/09/2015 at 18:53, Chris Higgs said:

Are the gas cylinders etc available for purchase on Shapeways? I could do with a few of those

 

Yes, they're available here: http://www.shapeways.com/product/TXL8QCKW9/gwr-gas-cylinders

 

They were generated very simply with OpenSCAD: I have attached the OpenSCAD source file in case it is of any use. Feel free to use it as a base for any cylinders you want. (It's actually a text file, by the way, despite the .doc file extension.)

 

Gas Cylinders.doc

Edited September 6, 2022 by DavidK71

[DavidK71]

Are the gas cylinders etc available for purchase on Shapeways? I could do with a few of those

 

I've noticed that the large roof vent wasn't available through Shapeways: I've added it, though it's really only a guess at the right shape. The small vents, by the way, were made from the buffers of a Farish LMS brake van that had already been dismantled for other purposes.

[DavidK71]

Time to revisit an old project ... I've never been completely happy with the six wheel bogies on the GWR Hawksworth sleeper coach from Ultima / Etched Pixels I did back in 2012. The bogie etch itself is very nice, but it is designed for 15mm axles. By modern standards these seem very wide and make the bogie stick out beyond the sides of the coach, as can been seen in this close-up:

 

 

The trouble is that these are the only N/2mm GWR six wheel bogies available. However, browsing the 2mm Association product lists, I had a sudden insight: the 2mm association does a six wheel LMS bogie, and if the wheel base matched, perhaps I could graft the side frames and details from the Ultima GWR bogies onto the frame of the LMS bogie. The result of this experiment is this:

 

 

 

I am rather pleased with the results, which are just waiting for some warmer weather for spraying. Using the 2mm Association bogie frames brings the width down to just over 12mm, which makes a real difference to the appearance.

 

A further challenge was that the 2mm Association no longer do 7mm coach wheels with N gauge profile on their axles. They do do axles on their own, and widening out the holes in some Parkside Dundas 7mm wheels with a set of drill bits has allowed me to produce sufficient wheelsets. The operation is a bit hit and miss - about 50% of the resulting wheelsets have to be discarded due to wobbling, but at least I get some useable wheels.

Edited June 28, 2016 by DavidK71

[R Marshall]

Finally some progress to report on my Thompson CL Diagram 338 (much of last year was taken up with an extension to our home (I now have a railway room!)). After several potential materials for rain strips proved to be unsatisfactory, I decided to leave them off, rather than spoil the roof. I painted the interior - dark blue seats in 1st class and red-brown in 3rd, with cream panels above the seating - using acrylics. Then the interior glazing in the half corridors was fitted - important to make sure it fits under the roof and that the lower edges of the interior windows aren't too high. Halfords Vauxhall Crimson for the top coat on the sides (door handles picked out in gold metallic acrylic) and matt varnish overall. Then the glazing was added, using Glue 'n Glaze to fix it - a very delicate operation. and finally the sides were glued on. I'm attaching a picture to show the result - the quality of the pic isn't great I'm afraid.

 

This kit was at the very limit of my ability and I know where all the flaws are in my construction. Nevertheless I'm pleased with the result and have started the first of two Diagram 340 Brake/3rds. I can't speak too highly of the kits. 

 

 

Having started with the D338, I made better progress with the D340. I superglued the surface of the roof before sanding, priming and sanding again and this gave a smoother result. I used a 0.95mm bit in a pin vice to open out the holes for the ventilators and glued them in. When I glued on the etched ends and the buffers to the body shell, I made sure to leave the top of the guard's end loose, so as to be able to insert the glazing after painting the inside and outside of the shell. A couple of pictures to show how it's going - the body is all finished apart from the etched sides. Next job is to drill them for handles, roll in the tumble home and fit drop lights, ventilators and door handles, before painting.

 

[R Marshall]

A further picture of the Diagram 338 with better surroundings - hopefully does more justice to the kit.

[DavidK71]

Real life continues to make doing any actual work towards a layout unlikely for the moment, but coach production for eventual use still continues in the background. A few years ago Chris Higgs did etches for 1930s Collett coaches, and this is the first of the ones I bought from him. As ever, it's a lovely kit, very easy to put together. This is a van third to diagram D.121, from 1935. It was one of the first of the "sunshine stock" coaches with huge corridor windows. It is also from the period where Swindon seemed to change coach lengths and window arrangements at whim. Standardization? Never heard of it, mate ...

 

 

 

On difference from previous coaches is that I've switched to using lining from Fox Transfers. These are distinctly thinner than the Modelmaster ones. While good for the appearance, it does mean that they are a swine to work with: one side took ten attempts to get the lining to look good. This takes a while as after two attempts a break is required to keep your temper under control!

 

You may have noticed one significant change I've made: I have left off the band of crimson and lining above the windows. There is a colour photograph of a D.121 coach in Kevin Robertson's book "Great Western Coaches in Colour" and I was very struck that the crimson line above the windows is so thin as to be practically invisible from any reasonable viewing difference. Testing showed that I even the thinnest line I could paint and apply lining to was way too thick, so I decided to try leaving it off to see how it looks. From normal viewing distances I'm pleased with the result, although I'm not quite so positive about how it looks under extreme close-up. Whether to repeat this with other late Collett coaches is to be decided ...

[DavidK71]

Time for what seems to have become the once-a-year update! One new coach, a C.67 corridor third that Chris Higgs created etches and roofs for a while back. This coach represents the last of the 1920s style Great Western coach, with its high waist and one door per compartment. Michael Harris wrote in his book "Great Western Coaches" that the coaches of this period "... were probably the most undistinguished of GWR coaches", which seems a bit harsh, though they are much less attractive than the "Sunshine" stock that followed. Still, their relative lack of attractiveness makes them appealing to model, I think.

 

 

A few things are worth noting for this build: this is the first time I've had to cut up a roof (the supplied roof is a scale 60', while the coach is 57' long). That was rather scary but seems to have come out okay. In this I was greatly aided by buying a cheap Mitre box from Amazon to be sure that the cuts were exact. This coach is also the first time I've used Halfords Matt Lacquer to finish - as a matt varnish it seems very good.

 

The bogies represent quite a lot more work than is obvious. The 2mm Association is now out of N gauge wheelsets on 12.25mm axles, which no likelihood of there being more supplies. However, Alan at Etched Pixels has acquired some wheelsets on 13mm axles, which is just slightly too wide. I had a go at drawing up a sheet for etching with Inkscape to produce versions of the 2mm Association's bogie frame etch, widened for 13mm axles:

 

 

These are all slightly different sizes, as I wasn't sure what would work, but the results have proved more successful than I'd expected. Unfortunately Etched Pixels has been shut all of 2017, but I am hoping I'll get more wheelsets at some point.