Building an N gauge coach kit

[PaulCheffus]

Time for what seems to have become the once-a-year update! One new coach, a C.67 corridor third that Chris Higgs created etches and roofs for a while back. This coach represents the last of the 1920s style Great Western coach, with its high waist and one door per compartment. Michael Harris wrote in his book "Great Western Coaches" that the coaches of this period "... were probably the most undistinguished of GWR coaches", which seems a bit harsh, though they are much less attractive than the "Sunshine" stock that followed. Still, their relative lack of attractiveness makes them appealing to model, I think. A few things are worth noting for this build: this is the first time I've had to cut up a roof (the supplied roof is a scale 60', while the coach is 57' long). That was rather scary but seems to have come out okay. In this I was greatly aided by buying a cheap Mitre box from Amazon to be sure that the cuts were exact. This coach is also the first time I've used Halfords Matt Lacquer to finish - as a matt varnish it seems very good. The bogies represent quite a lot more work than is obvious. The 2mm Association is now out of N gauge wheelsets on 12.25mm axles, which no likelihood of there being more supplies. However, Alan at Etched Pixels has acquired some wheelsets on 13mm axles, which is just slightly too wide. I had a go at drawing up a sheet for etching with Inkscape to produce versions of the 2mm Association's bogie frame etch, widened for 13mm axles:These are all slightly different sizes, as I wasn't sure what would work, but the results have proved more successful than I'd expected. Unfortunately Etched Pixels has been shut all of 2017, but I am hoping I'll get more wheelsets at some point.

Hi

 

Have you thought of using the axles for the farish wheels 2-047.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Chris Higgs]

Hi

 

Have you thought of using the axles for the farish wheels 2-047.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Out of production last I heard. So different route, same end result.

 

Chris

[PaulCheffus]

Out of production last I heard. So different route, same end result.

 

Chris

Hi

 

Ah didn't realise that. I guess it's back to reducing the length of the Parkside Dundas axles for me then.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[2mm Andy]

Hi

 

Ah didn't realise that. I guess it's back to reducing the length of the Parkside Dundas axles for me then.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Not necessarily. The 2mm Scale Association is looking to do another batch of the N wheels on 12.25mm axles. Due to the mould tool for the plastic centres being damaged (the reason we haven't produced any more of the original wheels recently) we have agreed to commission some CNC turned plastic centres to fit the existing rims/axles to produce 7mm disc wheels and 6mm 3 hole disc wheels. No promises on dates, etc. yet, but watch this space. The prices are likely to be higher than the last batch though due to the change in production process.

 

I'll ask our products/shops people about the likelihood of another batch of the Farish conversion axles.

 

Andy

[Atso]

Not necessarily. The 2mm Scale Association is looking to do another batch of the N wheels on 12.25mm axles. Due to the mould tool for the plastic centres being damaged (the reason we haven't produced any more of the original wheels recently) we have agreed to commission some CNC turned plastic centres to fit the existing rims/axles to produce 7mm disc wheels and 6mm 3 hole disc wheels. No promises on dates, etc. yet, but watch this space. The prices are likely to be higher than the last batch though due to the change in production process.

 

I'll ask our products/shops people about the likelihood of another batch of the Farish conversion axles.

 

Andy

 

Hopefully there will be another batch of Farish conversion axles as I've got some on back order. Otherwise I'm looking for another source of wagon chassis to update my old Farish collection....

[2mm Andy]

Hopefully there will be another batch of Farish conversion axles as I've got some on back order. Otherwise I'm looking for another source of wagon chassis to update my old Farish collection....

 

Steve,

 

Hopefully there will be some more made in due course, but it depends on the volunteer products team arranging to get a batch made. The N wheels on 12.25mm axles will fit the Association wagon underframes (that's what they were originally developed for - the conversion axles came along later) so you should be able to use them for your wagons as an alternative.

 

Andy

[DavidK71]

Have you thought of using the axles for the farish wheels 2-047.

I did, but all the 7mm wheels I've found had centre holes too small for those axles. This can be addressed to some extent by widening the holes with drill bits of increasing size, but that tends to produce wheelsets that wobble. I managed enough by this method to have wheelsets for the six-wheeled bogies under the Hawksworth sleeper, but then seemed to loose the knack: after six failed attempts to get a non-wobbly wheelset I got so fed up that I switched to Etched Pixels wheels and my widened bogie frames. It was a bit of a pain to design, but not that expensive to get PPD to etch it. However if the 2mm Association really are going to do more N-gauge wheelsets, that's going to be the best solution.

[Atso]

I did, but all the 7mm wheels I've found had centre holes too small for those axles. This can be addressed to some extent by widening the holes with drill bits of increasing size, but that tends to produce wheelsets that wobble. I managed enough by this method to have wheelsets for the six-wheeled bogies under the Hawksworth sleeper, but then seemed to loose the knack: after six failed attempts to get a non-wobbly wheelset I got so fed up that I switched to Etched Pixels wheels and my widened bogie frames. It was a bit of a pain to design, but not that expensive to get PPD to etch it. However if the 2mm Association really are going to do more N-gauge wheelsets, that's going to be the best solution.

 

Hi David, what wheels were you using? I've not had to resort to that kind of level of modification with the Farish wheels I've used, is this something only particular to the Farish 7mm coach wheels?

 

Steve,

 

Hopefully there will be some more made in due course, but it depends on the volunteer products team arranging to get a batch made. The N wheels on 12.25mm axles will fit the Association wagon underframes (that's what they were originally developed for - the conversion axles came along later) so you should be able to use them for your wagons as an alternative.

 

Andy

 

Thank you Andy, either will be very useful and gratefully received (by me at least!). I've just placed an order with shop 3 for some bits and pieces including some Fox pattern bogies for which I'll 'borrow' some axles from one of my existing wagon chassis for the time being.

 

 

[DavidK71]

Hi David, what wheels were you using? I've not had to resort to that kind of level of modification with the Farish wheels I've used, is this something only particular to the Farish 7mm coach wheels?

I've tried 7mm wheels from Farish and Parkside Dundas, and had these issues with them both. My understanding is that the axles sold by the 2mm Association were designed for the Farish wagon wheels, so it's perhaps not surprising that the coach wheels don't work quite so well. Still, I've come up with a solution I'm happy with, and had fun figuring out how to get a design etched.

[Chris Higgs]

I've tried 7mm wheels from Farish and Parkside Dundas, and had these issues with them both. My understanding is that the axles sold by the 2mm Association were designed for the Farish wagon wheels, so it's perhaps not surprising that the coach wheels don't work quite so well. Still, I've come up with a solution I'm happy with, and had fun figuring out how to get a design etched.

 

Having been involved in the design of these, they do indeed work better with spoked wheels, which have more 'give' in the hole. Actually, at the design time, I don't think Farish had plastic centered coach wheels, they were still using the old style with one wheel metal and the other having a plastic bush.

 

Parkside Dundas were not designed for or tested. The design sets the back-to-back by the shoulder on the axle, and so for good running rather depends on the wheel profile being consistent with that. I haven't seen the PD wheels, but don;t they have an older profile which is not as fine as the RP25 one of the Bachmann wheels? We took some time to get a BtoB set up that ran well with these.

 

 

Chris 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Chris Higgs

[wellseasoned]

All of the posts on this thread have been interesting and given me inspiration.

 

I bought 10 pairs of  Ultima N/S Stanier Porthole sides very cheaply in the NGS shop sale off. I reckon they'd had them for years as the address on the packets is Solihull, W.Midlands.

Also bought some Ultima early B.R. coach lining...this is fun to use and has prompted more than a few little brown words. Getting the hang of it now though.

 

I've been making my own underframes from plasticard and Plastruct "I" section. Mike Howarth trusses have been used as he's selling off the remnants of his kit parts.

 

I've gotten the bug a bit for making coaches, although it's early days. I have always been one to actually model as opposed to open the box and plant it on the layout. With prices ever increasing I envisage more people taking to scratchbuilding/semi-scratchbuilding.

 

Hopefully Etched Pixels will be back trading before too long.

 

I have to wonder about B.H. Enterprises, they seem to have a lot of etches/kits listed, but I get the feeling Ray having gone through the same loss as Alan has been a bit quiet of late.I never did get a reply to my product enquiry so left it.

 

Bill Bedford/Mousa models, does he do any N/2mm, or is it all now 4mm?

 

Worsley works appears the only producer of etches that is currently offering stuff for sale, but please correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

And lastly, DavidK71, what are your latest projects please?

[D869]

Worsley works appears the only producer of etches that is currently offering stuff for sale, but please correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

Coach kit availability does seem pretty sparse just now. At least we can all claim some justification for keeping the gloat box well stocked.

 

The 2mm Association shop has some kits available, plus a bunch of coach fixtures and fittings. http://2mm.org.uk/products/shops.php?shop_num=3 . You need to be a member to buy from here but browsing the catalogue is open to all.

As far as I gather from folks who have asked quite recently, Bill Bedford has stopped doing 2mm stuff.

 

BH Enterprises are still doing shows - they are booked for Syston next month for example and I saw them at TINGS last year. Having a stock of the old MTK/Fleetline kits myself, I have not had cause to enquire about any of his coach kits.

 

It's probably not much help to you now but Mr Higgs of this parish recently had a limited window for ordering from his back catalogue of kits. Unfortunately the window closed just over a week ago.

 

Regards, Andy

[DavidK71]

All of the posts on this thread have been interesting and given me inspiration.

Always good to hear of someone else experimenting with making coaches!

 

Hopefully Etched Pixels will be back trading before too long.

I have to wonder about B.H. Enterprises, they seem to have a lot of etches/kits listed, but I get the feeling Ray having gone through the same loss as Alan has been a bit quiet of late.I never did get a reply to my product enquiry so left it.

Bill Bedford/Mousa models, does he do any N/2mm, or is it all now 4mm?

There was a post from Alan on the N Gauge Forum earlier this month indicating that he's hoping to get the Etched Pixels stuff out of storage soon, so hopefully EP will be back in business in 2018. I've not bought anything from BH Enterprises, but I have used Bill Bedford sides in the past. There were a few posts a little while back on the 2mm mailing list commenting that his website has lost the link for 2mm sides that he used to do to order, which is a shame but I guess there wasn't exactly a vast demand. So yes, Worsley Works are probably the only sellers out there right now. Stuff does crop up on eBay occasionally, too.

 

And lastly, DavidK71, what are your latest projects please?

I currently seem to have less and less modelling time, so things are going slow! I have a Chris Higgs GWR E.152 brake composite on the go at the moment which will probably take me until the Autumn to finish. I also have an idea for something a little more obscure that will involve etching my own coach sides, but more on that when there's something to show!

[wellseasoned]

Thank you for your replies re' etched sides/ the current manufacturers.

 

I have looked at the 2mm site a few times of late, and to be honest it's looking more attractive for me than the NGS is these days. There is so much more in the way of bits n' pieces to assist builders. Just my view, although I do know a couple of others in W.Cornwall who share roughly similer views as me.

 

Personally I feel that more will become attracted to making things themselves, as rtr continues to rise and more 3D printed components become available.

[D869]

Thank you for your replies re' etched sides/ the current manufacturers.

 

I have looked at the 2mm site a few times of late, and to be honest it's looking more attractive for me than the NGS is these days. There is so much more in the way of bits n' pieces to assist builders. Just my view, although I do know a couple of others in W.Cornwall who share roughly similer views as me.

 

Personally I feel that more will become attracted to making things themselves, as rtr continues to rise and more 3D printed components become available.

 

I'd certainly agree that if you want to do kit and/or scratchbuilding then you will find more like minded souls in the 2mm Association and the pages of its magazine. It's fair to say that each has things that the other does not but you can be in both if your budget can support it. I was for a time but I let my NGS membership lapse when the transfer and nameplate supply situation ran into problems a couple of years back... not long after I'd paid my subs IIRC.

 

The philosophy of kitbuilding vs an expanding RTR offering is a whole other topic, but I think it's fair to say that kitbuilding will give you less opportunity for instant gratification but more satisfaction in the long term.

 

Regards, Andy

[wellseasoned]

I'd certainly agree that if you want to do kit and/or scratchbuilding then you will find more like minded souls in the 2mm Association and the pages of its magazine. It's fair to say that each has things that the other does not but you can be in both if your budget can support it. I was for a time but I let my NGS membership lapse when the transfer and nameplate supply situation ran into problems a couple of years back... not long after I'd paid my subs IIRC.

 

The philosophy of kitbuilding vs an expanding RTR offering is a whole other topic, but I think it's fair to say that kitbuilding will give you less opportunity for instant gratification but more satisfaction in the long term.

 

Regards, Andy

 

You make some points that are in line with my current thinking. I have always enjoyed actually creating models, harking back to the days more than 50 years ago when I would make copies of the Airfix buildings from cardboard. I was only around 10 years old but it was good training for later years.

 

I have become increasingly rancled with the NGS ever since there was a major problem with the members shop. I won't go into details here but NGS members will know what I am referring to. I do not think it was dealt with effectively, and know others who feel the same. The thing that has really gotten to me is the "outsourcing" of society decals back to Modelmaster, their manufacturer. I may well subscribe to both NGS and 2mm in the short term, but as I get more into actual building of rolling stock the 2mm association is looking more attractive for me.

 

Anyway, back to coaches, and creating tumbleholmes.

I asked for ideas on the N gauge forum and had some intersesting replies. Originally trained as a carpenter I have made several tables over the years. With young children I always put a radius on the corners and edges, top and bottom.

 

This is how I am creating tumbleholmes;

I place the coachside parralel to the edge of the table, and with the waist area below the windows in line with start of the gently radiused table edge. One hand holds the coachside, with my fingers fanned out to create downward pressure along the sides length. The thumb of my other hand slowly and gently moves along the waist of the coach with slight downward pressure, creating the tumble. Of course the tumbleholme on different coaches can vary as to where it starts. This is working for me.

[DavidK71]

One more source of a (very) few 2mm/N coach kits: Lochgorm Models. Only two coaches, but if you're making LMS portholes, you might be able to justify running old Highland coaches. Definitely unusual, at least!

 

This is how I am creating tumbleholmes;

I place the coachside parralel to the edge of the table, and with the waist area below the windows in line with start of the gently radiused table edge. One hand holds the coachside, with my fingers fanned out to create downward pressure along the sides length. The thumb of my other hand slowly and gently moves along the waist of the coach with slight downward pressure, creating the tumble. Of course the tumbleholme on different coaches can vary as to where it starts. This is working for me.

That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of looking for a table with a curving edge. Everyone seems to have their own way of doing this - provided you get an even curve with no kinks, it's not as scary as is sometimes made out.

[wellseasoned]

One more source of a (very) few 2mm/N coach kits: Lochgorm Models. Only two coaches, but if you're making LMS portholes, you might be able to justify running old Highland coaches. Definitely unusual, at least!

 

 

That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of looking for a table with a curving edge. Everyone seems to have their own way of doing this - provided you get an even curve with no kinks, it's not as scary as is sometimes made out.

 

Yes, what works for one doesn't always work for another. One suggestion was to use some card underneath the window area, and bend below to get the tumble. I tried it with some trepidation and ended up somehow putting a slight crease in the side.

 

The Portholes.

Well for half a Century and more I have been interested largely in anything Western region. The final reductions in the NGS shop sell-off had 3 types of Porthole N/S sides available, so I bought a total of 10 pairs. At the price they were on offer it would have been rude not to!  So here I am, trying my hand at building some coaches.

 

I already had Russell's GWR coaches, and Essery's LMS coaches, so with the Porthole sides interest has grown in the LMS, although they were built in B.R. days.

 

I am aware of a softback book on making coaches, but I imagine most of it will be about 4mm, using the wealth of what's available in that scale. For those of us who are N gauge builders 4mm would likely be a piece of cake...

 

To be honest I've been feeling my way, and whilst I have scratchbuilt all of the chassis I have cautiously built just one brake 3rd so far. I have avoided the batch production approach. Drop a clanger involving adhesive/s and they could all be involved.There will be tweaks when building the next brake 3rd. It's not only tumbleholmes that are a learning curve!

 

For glazing I have been using some clear Plasticard. I fix it from fractionally above the top of windows, down as far as where the tumbleholme starts. It offers rigidity to the sides and is made a snug fit between the ends for fixing.  I could probably get by with some 0.5mm thinner. As I said, a learning curve.

[D869]

I was reading the new 2mm newsletter last night and by coincidence another supplier cropped up under 'yearbook amendments'. They do a few NPCS vans and it seems like they have been around for a while. I know the Chivers name but I am not familiar with the N scale kits.

 

http://slimrails.co.uk/indexNgauge.html

 

You mentioned published info on 2mm coach building. I'm not sure if you read MRJ, but John Aldrick wrote an article on the subject not too long ago...

 

http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/index.php?o=&s=aldrick&t=authors&g=0&x=21&y=9

 

Regards, Andy

[wellseasoned]

I was reading the new 2mm newsletter last night and by coincidence another supplier cropped up under 'yearbook amendments'. They do a few NPCS vans and it seems like they have been around for a while. I know the Chivers name but I am not familiar with the N scale kits.

 

http://slimrails.co.uk/indexNgauge.html

 

You mentioned published info on 2mm coach building. I'm not sure if you read MRJ, but John Aldrick wrote an article on the subject not too long ago...

 

http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/index.php?o=&s=aldrick&t=authors&g=0&x=21&y=9

 

Regards, Andy

 

I have part two in MRJ 256, and interesting it is. I must try to get part one. It's a magazine that like all others I buy if it's got something of interest. Overlooked the first part of the article though.

[Nig H]

Here's a pic of a porthole BSK I made some years ago. I can't remember if the sides are Ultima or Bill Bedford.

 

 

And a porthole BFK, made more recently. This has sides painted and lined by Ian Rathbone, a vast improvement on my attempts with airbrush and lining transfers.

 

 

Nig H

[Chris Higgs]

Here's a pic of a porthole BSK I made some years ago. I can't remember if the sides are Ultima or Bill Bedford.

 

 

It was my impression that those Colin Albright Ultima sides were done by Bill Bedford anyway? I have a drawerful of them and the font of the etched text is the same one Bill uses.

 

Ian Rathbone certainly does a mean paint-job.

 

Chris

Edited January 27, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[wellseasoned]

It was my impression that those Colin Albright Ultima sides were done by Bill Bedford anyway? I have a drawerful of them and the font of the etched text is the same one Bill uses.

 

Ian Rathbone certainly does a mean paint-job.

 

Chris

 

Ultima stock appears to have done the rounds a bit over the years.

 

The Porthole sides I have were all in packets with a Solihull address. Was this perhaps Colin Albright?

 

Probably around 7 years or so back, possibly more, I came across the Ultima stock, en-mass, whilst visiting family and a model shop in my home City of Bristol.

 

In Bristol there was a chap trading as,IIRC, South Gloucester model warehouse, firstly in Southmead and later in Yate. At the Southmead shop when I visited he had just moved in, and there were numerous large boxes of Ultima stock on the floor. He moved  shop to Yate but sadly experienced a life changing event and the shop was closed.

I cannot recall his name but he was a regular poster on the N gauge forum. I believe the Ultima stock was joinly owned by the Yate chap and Alan Cox for a while, then passing fully to Alan Cox.

 

Just a little bit of Ultima history as I know it, but maybe there is more?

 

I'm sure many of us anticipate Alan re-opening Ultima in the not too distant future.

[Chris Higgs]

Ultima stock appears to have done the rounds a bit over the years.

 

The Porthole sides I have were all in packets with a Solihull address. Was this perhaps Colin Albright?

 

Probably around 7 years or so back, possibly more, I came across the Ultima stock, en-mass, whilst visiting family and a model shop in my home City of Bristol.

 

In Bristol there was a chap trading as,IIRC, South Gloucester model warehouse, firstly in Southmead and later in Yate. At the Southmead shop when I visited he had just moved in, and there were numerous large boxes of Ultima stock on the floor. He moved  shop to Yate but sadly experienced a life changing event and the shop was closed.

I cannot recall his name but he was a regular poster on the N gauge forum. I believe the Ultima stock was joinly owned by the Yate chap and Alan Cox for a while, then passing fully to Alan Cox.

 

Just a little bit of Ultima history as I know it, but maybe there is more?

 

I'm sure many of us anticipate Alan re-opening Ultima in the not too distant future.

 

Colin did live in Solihull in his Ultima days, and I visited him there many years ago and bought a large number of his castings, which I still have. At that point he had stopped trading with the public, and only worked through the NGS. This was all before his move from teaching to take up his job at Bachmann for which we all now remember him.

 

Alan did indeed have a partner before he took over Ultima by himself, but I thnk he can tell that story better than I.

 

Chris

[wellseasoned]

Etched Pixels. On another forum somebody has said that E.P. is open for business from today.

 

Looking at Alan's website it's showing most items out of stock, but I imagine he needs time to sort out what is what and actually available. As I said previously there will likely be an avalanche of orders from people who have been gagging for the resumption of business. There are items I would like but I can hold off for now.