Valentin Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Or perhaps you fancy filing the Grafar footplate thinner. Then again, perhaps not... That's a NO-NO! I'd rather scratch-build it; although for such an effort, I would choose another prototype... Edited December 17, 2015 by Valentin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2015 I have a Farish Pannier body obtained from Tony White where he has milled the footplate away and provided a new footplate of Nickel Silver. Perhaps the same sort of approach might work for you. It would be necessary to insulate the footplate from the chassis to avoid a short. It could be possible to remove the footplate without a mill but care would be needed. It might be an answer for those who felt happy with cutting out a flat sheet but less happy with shaping the cab and boiler. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I have a Farish Pannier body obtained from Tony White where he has milled the footplate away and provided a new footplate of Nickel Silver. Perhaps the same sort of approach might work for you. It would be necessary to insulate the footplate from the chassis to avoid a short. It could be possible to remove the footplate without a mill but care would be needed. It might be an answer for those who felt happy with cutting out a flat sheet but less happy with shaping the cab and boiler. Don A brave man given what it is like to file or mill that stuff Farish made their bodies of. 3D printing a new footplate could be an interesting option given that it would be naturally isolating in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Lose some of the weight though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted December 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2015 A brave man given what it is like to file or mill that stuff Farish made their bodies of. 3D printing a new footplate could be an interesting option given that it would be naturally isolating in that case. I made a new footplate for my one. Its only a rectangle of brass with a hole in it so nothing tricky, electrical isolation is some high tech fag paper superglued on. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I have a Farish Pannier body obtained from Tony White where he has milled the footplate away and provided a new footplate of Nickel Silver. Perhaps the same sort of approach might work for you. It would be necessary to insulate the footplate from the chassis to avoid a short. It could be possible to remove the footplate without a mill but care would be needed. It might be an answer for those who felt happy with cutting out a flat sheet but less happy with shaping the cab and boiler. Don Julia Adams has replaced the footplate on the Farish pannier. It is quite brutal, but does look effective. Another option instead of N/s sheet is to use some of the 0.8mm single sided PCB sheet that is sold in the 2mm Shop 3. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) I have a Farish Pannier body obtained from Tony White where he has milled the footplate away and provided a new footplate of Nickel Silver. Perhaps the same sort of approach might work for you. It would be necessary to insulate the footplate from the chassis to avoid a short. It could be possible to remove the footplate without a mill but care would be needed. It might be an answer for those who felt happy with cutting out a flat sheet but less happy with shaping the cab and boiler. Don A brave man given what it is like to file or mill that stuff Farish made their bodies of. 3D printing a new footplate could be an interesting option given that it would be naturally isolating in that case. I think that one was one that I did for Tony. It mills okay as long as you keep speeds/feeds appropriate. It was also milled such that the motor would fit into the boiler/tanks for the rear axle drive. I have the other footplate that was made at the time but have still not fitted it to a body. There is still a good amount of mass remaining in what is left of the casting. Edited December 18, 2015 by richbrummitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I wish a Happy New Year to all! Regarding the 3-364 gear-set (M0.25, 30:1. Skew cut brass gear 3.0mm bore. Acetal worms 1.5mm and 1.0mm bore) listed in the Association shop, I am not able to find the specifications for it in the Yearbook. Also, on Ultrascale's website no M0.25 gear is listed. Could anyone help with all the details for this gear + worm set? Thank you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) It seems the data on gearsets is a bit "all over the place". Part 3-363 is listed as a M0.25 21:1 ratio, but the meshing tables show it as a 100dp 38:1. Part 3-364 is not in the meshing tables. The metric gears come from KKPMO in Poland, so there won't be an Ultrascale product to match it. And, they were a "special" at KKPMO, so I don't think they are part of their standard range. The Yearbook ought to have data on the worm diameters and the centres to allow people to make calculations. It is, fortunately, really simple. The Metric 25:1 and 30:1 worm/wheel sets were specified (*) to have the same centres as the 100DP imperial gears. Thus existing etched chassis designs would not need modification. This was done by making a small adjustment to the worm outside diameter. So, the table for 100 DP worm/wheel gears also applies to the M0.25 range. The only difference is the bore of the wheel (3mm on metric, 1/8th inch on DP gears). (*) I did the specification, and there is a miniscule difference because the specification of the DP gears is incorrect somewhere. The centre lines are not correct for a constant diameter worm over all three DP gear options. So the metric specification tried to hit the mid-point. In practise, the worm outside diameter isn't a well specified diameter, so the differences are immaterial. - Nigel Edited January 2, 2016 by Nigelcliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentin Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Would this work? Gear MOD Thickness Bore OD PCD Mesh Centres Worm + Wheel Ratio 30 :1 0.25 1.80 3.00 8.00 7.50 5.46 Idler 14 teeth 0.3 1.40 3.00 4.80 4.20 6.30 Driving Gear 28 teeth 0.3 1.40 3.00 9.00 8.40 Total Reduction Ratio 60 :1 The prototype details are (in mm): Thanks, Edited January 3, 2016 by Valentin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Would this work? Gear MOD Thickness Bore OD PCD Mesh Centres Worm + Wheel Ratio 30 :1 0.25 1.80 3.00 8.00 7.50 5.46 Idler 14 teeth 0.3 1.40 3.00 4.80 4.20 6.30 Driving Gear 28 teeth 0.3 1.40 3.00 9.00 8.40 Total Reduction Ratio 60 :1 The prototype details are (in mm): Thanks, Will you be able to get the motor in the tender low enough to drive at that height? You can of course angle the worm but it is better to get the drive straight through without height if possible. You might consider raising the worm, this would also make the wormwheel less visible between the frames. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentin Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I would really like to raise the worm a bit. The problem is that the tender is quite small and I am pretty sure nothing bigger than the Nigel Lawton's midi motor will fit. I hope the firebox will hide the gears between the frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 With an 8mm diameter motor there is potential for vertical drop between the wheels, whilst not touching the back of the wheels. So, the motor might align with the worm shaft shown. - Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have managed to get a couple of the excellent 7mm coreless motors that Farish now use via their spares dept. that would drop even further between the wheels. The problem you may have with that four wheel tender which I came up against when looking at the Ilfracombe goods with original tender is the length of the motor - both the Lawton and Farish motors are quite long. The Lawton 6mm motor would fit comfortably but in the experiments I've done it severely lacks torque. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Based upon the title of this thread...... Will I win the lottery this week ? Oops sorry wrong thread !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have managed to get a couple of the excellent 7mm coreless motors that Farish now use via their spares dept. that would drop even further between the wheels. The problem you may have with that four wheel tender which I came up against when looking at the Ilfracombe goods with original tender is the length of the motor - both the Lawton and Farish motors are quite long. The Lawton 6mm motor would fit comfortably but in the experiments I've done it severely lacks torque. Interesting. What length is the Farish motor and how easy are they to get hold of? In the past I've fitted a Faulhaber 0816 (8mm diam, 16mm long) into a four wheel tender and still had room to have a spur gear reduction to drop the drive shaft below the footplate ( I have an aversion to drive shafts going through the middle of cabs! ). The whole arrangement only took up 25mm length. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi guys I've been an n gauges for a while and just joined the 2mm association and fancy building a small layout My question lol how can I 2mm my NGauge Bachmann farish class 08 ? Sorry if this has been discussed before Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi guys I've been an n gauges for a while and just joined the 2mm association and fancy building a small layout My question lol how can I 2mm my NGauge Bachmann farish class 08 ? Sorry if this has been discussed before Thanks Brian Hello Bri, Welcome to the 2mm assoc and Good luck with that question. This subject was recently discussed on the vag and it would seem there is no easy option, Mind you if the 08 had a chimney on it, then I'm sure a drop in solution would be available, However all developments in the 2mm assoc are created by members, usually for personal projects that then get shared with everyone else. There is a 2mm class 08 kit, but it has to be built from scratch and is currently out of stock. A 2mm version of the 08 is something I'd like myself, so I'm waiting for the kit, it is a pain, not least the building of the thing when it arrives, as £100 is a lot to spend practising your scratch building skills on, especially if like me you're not that good, but it is what it is. I'm sure others will have additional comments to make. Rgds, Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi stuart Thankyou ,I'm looking forward to building my own track and some wagon kits ,I've a few loco's so I'll have to get one or 2 drop in wheel sets ,me being a bit naive was hoping mabe a replacement chassis and a change of wheel back to backs for the 08 lol Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted January 4, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) As Stuart's post above suggests, the 08 is not the easiest loco to convert to 2mm standards due to its outside frames and cranks. The Association does offer a replacement chassis etch which includes outside frames etc, but this is not the easiest introduction to 2mm modelling. As noted above there is also a 2mm Class 08 kit Far easier as you've noted is re-wheeling a Farish Bo-Bo diesel using the Association's drop in wheelsets. This gives you a 2mm loco in minutes. If your modelling period is a little earlier then using an Association conversion kit to re-wheel the Farish Jinty is easier than the 08, but not as easy as a Farish Bo-Bo (Dapol diesels can only currently be converted by turning down the wheels and changing the back-to-back). The standard of the new models in N gauge makes this a really interesting time to try 2mm modelling and it is now so much easier thanks to the efforts of 2mm Association members with loco conversion kits, complete kits of various sorts and other developments like Easitrac as an alternative to PCB sleepers and soldered track. Things have changed massively for the better since I first joined the Association in the late 1990s. All the best with your project. Hope this helps. Simon P.S. The VAG referred to above is the Association's Virtual Area Group - a group on Yahoo. Edited January 4, 2016 by 65179 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Interesting. What length is the Farish motor and how easy are they to get hold of? In the past I've fitted a Faulhaber 0816 (8mm diam, 16mm long) into a four wheel tender and still had room to have a spur gear reduction to drop the drive shaft below the footplate ( I have an aversion to drive shafts going through the middle of cabs! ). The whole arrangement only took up 25mm length. Jim Easy enough to get hold of as spares, at least until Bachmann spot our game and that we are not using them to repair their locos! I have an aversion to spur gears running on the high speed side of a worm drive. Way too noisy. Chris Edited January 4, 2016 by Chris Higgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Mind you if the 08 had a chimney on it, then I'm sure a drop in solution would be available, Nope, the Class 08 was our first loco kit, and shows the Association is no longer populated by old buffers only interested in steam prototypes (although they may still be found muttering in sidings). There would be a drop in wheel solution to a Farish 08 if Farish had thought of using a design that made it possible. They got there in the end but too late. Besides which an 08 is outside frame, and that should rule it out as an idea for a first easy loco to tackle. Start with this and you may end up frustrated and it being your last 2mm loco as well as your first. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate it , I'll probably leave the 08 untill I've a lot more experience I'll probably get some drop in wheels for one of my diesels ,and build a small layout to mess around with stuff ,have a go at some points and wagon kits Hello Bri, Welcome to the 2mm assoc and Good luck with that question. This subject was recently discussed on the vag and it would seem there is no easy option, Mind you if the 08 had a chimney on it, then I'm sure a drop in solution would be available, However all developments in the 2mm assoc are created by members, usually for personal projects that then get shared with everyone else. There is a 2mm class 08 kit, but it has to be built from scratch and is currently out of stock. A 2mm version of the 08 is something I'd like myself, so I'm waiting for the kit, it is a pain, not least the building of the thing when it arrives, as £100 is a lot to spend practising your scratch building skills on, especially if like me you're not that good, but it is what it is. I'm sure others will have additional comments to make. Rgds, Stuart I'm quite impressed and inspired by what you did with the small layout Stuart (sorry forgot the name of it ) plenty of scope in such a small space Thanks again Brian Edited January 4, 2016 by bri.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate it , I'll probably leave the 08 untill I've a lot more experience I'll probably get some drop in wheels for one of my diesels ,and build a small layout to mess around with stuff ,have a go at some points and wagon kits I'm quite impressed and inspired by what you did with the small layout Stuart (sorry forgot the name of it ) plenty of scope in such a small space Thanks again Brian Thanks, The layout you refer to is in one of the links below this post. I suggest starting with something small, just a couple of sidings or a depot perhaps, as I know to my cost anything larger can take an age to finish, and its easy to lose interest half way through. Class's 20, 24 & 25 are all easy to change the wheels on using the drop in wheels and are not out of place on a small yard or depot. The new easitrack turnouts are a good place to start, and you'd be surprised at how interesting a layout can be made from just 2 or 3 points. Expect to make mistakes and learn from them. Good luck Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks, The layout you refer to is in one of the links below this post. I suggest starting with something small, just a couple of sidings or a depot perhaps, as I know to my cost anything larger can take an age to finish, and its easy to lose interest half way through. Class's 20, 24 & 25 are all easy to change the wheels on using the drop in wheels and are not out of place on a small yard or depot. The new easitrack turnouts are a good place to start, and you'd be surprised at how interesting a layout can be made from just 2 or 3 points. Expect to make mistakes and learn from them. Good luck Stuart Thanks again Like you suggest I'll be starting with something small mabe a few points just to practice with them and get something running with a drop in wheel set ,try a few wagon kits I do still have an n gauge layout build on going so if this test layout works and I get used to 2mm and building my own points and things then my next big layout will be in 2mm No doubt I'll have lots more questions lol Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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