Any Question Answered

[Izzy]

I have a 3'x2' sheet of hardboard on which an oval of easitrac has been laid as a running-in/test track. As the track is right at the edge (!) the curves are about 11" on the inner rail. All my diesels/dmu's/bogie stock run around this without issue as do most wagons. This is with the DG's fixed to the bogies where they are used. With fixed DG's it just wouldn't work at all. Some longer wheelbase 4-wheel BR CCT's (both 2mmSA and Farish models) with fixed DG's are also okay. I have also managed to 'persude' my 2mmSA converted Farish Jinty and 4F to get around this track. But there must be no kinks in the curved rails at any point.

 

However, as a general rule I would not really wish to use a radius below 12", and also use soldered track with gauge widening, to ensure completely reliable running. I'm not sure whether stock would cope with 9" as I have never tried that, either easitrac or copperclad.

 

I have built a number of points with an inside radius of between 15"-18" (both straight and curved ) and a couple of 12" radius ones as an experiment. Be aware that any that come off a curve really need the blades offset so the inner radius is smooth and doesn't contain a kink/deflection in the manner that any blades produce relative to a stock rail ( I reverse the point handing in Templot). All the dieses/dmu's were quite okay with the 12" points, but it was really too much for the steamers who often choked on them. Not at the blades, but through the crossing/wing rail/check rail area (it's connected to the diameter of the wheels).

 

merry christmas all,

 

Izzy

[itsthegman]

 

I have decided to have a go see where it takes me. Peco track diagram laid out and copped sleeps glued down.

[Doncaster Green]

I am in search of guidance!   Has anyone any instructions/construction notes/fitting guides for the Association's LNER Standard bogies?   I can work out most of the sequence from the fret but there are one or two steps/bits that are confusing me.   I have 20 of them to do with the finished articles destined for a mixture of Gresley and Thompson suburban stock based on Worsley Works etches.   Any help would be much appreciated.

 

John

[Chris Higgs]

I am in search of guidance!   Has anyone any instructions/construction notes/fitting guides for the Association's LNER Standard bogies?   I can work out most of the sequence from the fret but there are one or two steps/bits that are confusing me.   I have 20 of them to do with the finished articles destined for a mixture of Gresley and Thompson suburban stock based on Worsley Works etches.   Any help would be much appreciated.

 

John

 

These are the instructions, taken from my Gresley suburban kits:

 

1. Cut out the bogie stretchers, and solder the axle bearings in place. Do not fold up the stretcher at this point.

2. The etched bogie layers are built up on the stretcher one at a time, using the axle bearing as location points. Solder them to the stretcher first, and only cut them from the fret after this. There are six layers. Note that the axleboxes are set at the correct wheelbase, so both can be soldered at once to the side, aiding their correct location. Make sure the footboard locating slots on the inner side remain free of solder.

3. Having performed Step 3 for both sides of the bogie, the stretcher may be folded up and soldered. Insert wheels and test for free running. Remove them again.

4. Solder the bogie top plate in place.

5. If desired, Gresley coach brakes (Association part 2-199) may be fitted.

6. Fit footboards according to prototype. All photos I have seen of Gresley non-corridor stock had a full set of boards fitted. Fold the profiled section over 180 degrees and solder to the lower section – or simply cut it off if you don’t wish to include it. Fold up the locating straps to 90 degrees. Insert the locating straps into the slots provided in the inner sides of the bogies. Note there is a second set of cosmetic tabs which are to be soldered in front of the bogie frames.

7. Spacing washers are provided to set the bogie at the correct height. Using these, and bolts, mount the bogies on the underframe.

 

Chris

Edited December 28, 2016 by Chris Higgs

[Doncaster Green]

These are the instructions, taken from my Gresley suburban kits:

 

1. Cut out the bogie stretchers, and solder the axle bearings in place. Do not fold up the stretcher at this point.

2. The etched bogie layers are built up on the stretcher one at a time, using the axle bearing as location points. Solder them to the stretcher first, and only cut them from the fret after this. There are six layers. Note that the axleboxes are set at the correct wheelbase, so both can be soldered at once to the side, aiding their correct location. Make sure the footboard locating slots on the inner side remain free of solder.

3. Having performed Step 3 for both sides of the bogie, the stretcher may be folded up and soldered. Insert wheels and test for free running. Remove them again.

4. Solder the bogie top plate in place.

5. If desired, Gresley coach brakes (Association part 2-199) may be fitted.

6. Fit footboards according to prototype. All photos I have seen of Gresley non-corridor stock had a full set of boards fitted. Fold the profiled section over 180 degrees and solder to the lower section – or simply cut it off if you don’t wish to include it. Fold up the locating straps to 90 degrees. Insert the locating straps into the slots provided in the inner sides of the bogies. Note there is a second set of cosmetic tabs which are to be soldered in front of the bogie frames.

7. Spacing washers are provided to set the bogie at the correct height. Using these, and bolts, mount the bogies on the underframe.

 

Chris

 

Chris

 

Thanks very much for this.   Am I right in assuming that the bogie top plate mentioned in step 4 is the piece just underneath the bogie stretcher on the fret that appears to have representations of four coil springs attached?

 

John

[Chris Higgs]

Chris

 

Thanks very much for this.   Am I right in assuming that the bogie top plate mentioned in step 4 is the piece just underneath the bogie stretcher on the fret that appears to have representations of four coil springs attached?

 

John

 

Yes, except they are rivets represented, not springs.

 

Chris

[Doncaster Green]

Yes, except they are rivets represented, not springs.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris - I'll be glad when my eyes are done, I can see it's there but not what it is!

 

John

[nick_bastable]

What are peoples thoughts on wagon weights, having trawled this and another forum together with the 2mm archive I appear non the wiser using a digital scale I note that  some wagons come in @ 4 grams while a rtr conversion using drop in wheels is 5 grams  with a etched example @ 7 grams.  I only run short trains so additional weight should not be a problem    

 

Nick

[Stephen 28]

What are peoples thoughts on wagon weights, having trawled this and another forum together with the 2mm archive I appear non the wiser using a digital scale I note that  some wagons come in @ 4 grams while a rtr conversion using drop in wheels is 5 grams  with a etched example @ 7 grams.  I only run short trains so additional weight should not be a problem    

 

Nick

I have a roll of lead flashing approx 1mm thick and for 2mm scale models I glue under the chassis a piece 6mm wide x half the wagon length over headstocks. This gives a nice weight to wagons, tends to fit between brakes, couplers etc. and includes a bit of proportionality - the longer the wagon the more weight added. Works for me on both fully etched and plastic body/etched chassis wagons.

[Ian Morgan]

I rarely add any weight to a wagon, so I end up with some very light ones, and some quite heavy ones, depending on what they are made from, and if I have added a load. They all seem to work together OK.

 

I do use a short train of my lightest wagons to push slowly through any new trackwork. They soon show up any gauge narrowing or changes in height or direction of rails by leaping up in the air.

 

Edit: We did once set up Alresford on the slope at an exhibition, and some free running wagons ran off by themselves to the buffer stops in the yard after passing the uncoupling magnet.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ian Morgan

[Branwell]

What are peoples thoughts on wagon weights, having trawled this and another forum together with the 2mm archive I appear non the wiser using a digital scale I note that  some wagons come in @ 4 grams while a rtr conversion using drop in wheels is 5 grams  with a etched example @ 7 grams.  I only run short trains so additional weight should not be a problem    

 

Nick

Interesting article - http://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

[nick_bastable]

Interesting article - http://www.nmra.org/beginner/weight

gosh that's suggesting 14 grams + 

 

food for much thought 

 

Nick

[garethashenden]

gosh that's suggesting 14 grams + 

 

food for much thought 

 

Nick

For a 16T mineral wagon, it's almost 20g.

 

They say that they don't think their standards are outdated, well of course they'll say that. But they are. It's far too heavy for anything that isn't a train set. If you've got 9" curves and want to run at high speeds, then the weight helps to hold things on the track. Otherwise...

[Nigelcliffe]

Real weights from my wagon box:

 

Bob Jones designed hopper wagon, under 8g.   (normal-ish weight given its length).
Chris Higgs designed multi-layered 10ft w/b midland van, around 10g.  (feels like a heavy vehicle, very large number of etch layers)

Stephen Harris designed Prestwin, around 11.5g.   (fees really heavy).

 

NMRA suggested weights are too high.

 

- Nigel

[Yorkshire Square]

It very much depends on how your layout will operate.

 

If you want long trains (say 20+ wagons) to be pulled, you won't want your wagon to be as heavy as if you are pushing wagons around in ones or twos on a shunting layout.

 

Personally I use a sheet of lead and typically fill as much of the etched undergrad as possible with bits of said sheet. There is nothing worse than buffering up to a wagon and watching it ping off along the track; you want to see some resistance as would be evident in the real thing.

[Yorkshire Square]

Underframe! ^^

[DavidLong]

What are peoples thoughts on wagon weights, having trawled this and another forum together with the 2mm archive I appear non the wiser using a digital scale I note that  some wagons come in @ 4 grams while a rtr conversion using drop in wheels is 5 grams  with a etched example @ 7 grams.  I only run short trains so additional weight should not be a problem    

 

Nick

 

Nick,

 

I mentioned this issue in a response to Gareth Ashenden over on the workbench thread a couple of days ago. This is what I said:

 

Most of my short, non-bogie stock weighs in at between 6 and 10 grams, although I did get a bit carried away with one van which comes in at 12 grams! If you haven't already got one, a small digital scale such as this is useful for 2mm scale:

http://www.ebay.co.u...5wAAOSwwo1XclLg

 

David

[nick_bastable]

thank you  all  for the replies 

 

sounds like 4 grams is too low then  I'm thinking  I should aim for about 8-10  grams ?     but could well explain some issues I'm having  

 

Nick

[queensquare]

Nick,

 

I mentioned this issue in a response to Gareth Ashenden over on the workbench thread a couple of days ago. This is what I said:

 

Most of my short, non-bogie stock weighs in at between 6 and 10 grams, although I did get a bit carried away with one van which comes in at 12 grams! If you haven't already got one, a small digital scale such as this is useful for 2mm scale:

http://www.ebay.co.u...5wAAOSwwo1XclLg

 

David

 

I must admit I never really bothered too much about the weight of wagons, shuffling half a dozen or so wagons around on Highbury or Tucking Mill it was never an issue. Now I've started running trains on Bath, albeit in a limited way yet, with trains of 25 wagons plus it is more of an issue - not so much pulling but pushing long rakes and banking. Ive just bought one of the little scales in David's link and they are a bargain for under a fiver including post.

I don't think wagons all need to weigh exactly the same but a fairly limited range makes sense - a gram or so either side of 8grams seems sensible.

 

Jerry 

[Donw]

I must admit I never really bothered too much about the weight of wagons, shuffling half a dozen or so wagons around on Highbury or Tucking Mill it was never an issue. Now I've started running trains on Bath, albeit in a limited way yet, with trains of 25 wagons plus it is more of an issue - not so much pulling but pushing long rakes and banking. Ive just bought one of the little scales in David's link and they are a bargain for under a fiver including post.

I don't think wagons all need to weigh exactly the same but a fairly limited range makes sense - a gram or so either side of 8grams seems sensible.

 

Jerry 

 

You have hit the nail on the head there Jerry a fairly limited range of weights is the best idea. Heavy wagons at the rear can pull light ones in front off on tight curves. This can happen in all scales, probably less so in 2mm where we can usually find room for gentler curves.

Don 

[Chris Higgs]

You have hit the nail on the head there Jerry a fairly limited range of weights is the best idea. Heavy wagons at the rear can pull light ones in front off on tight curves. This can happen in all scales, probably less so in 2mm where we can usually find room for gentler curves.

Don 

 

Putting my mathematician's hat on here, surely it is just the total weight of the wagons behind the first wagon that causes the problem, not necessarily that they have different weights. So 100 wagons weighing 10g each will have the same effect as 50 at 20g. For sure having heavy wagons at the back will make the problem occur quicker, but it will in the end occur anyway, even with all wagons of even weight.

 

If you want a longer train to go around a sharp curve, the best would be to have heavier wagons next to the locomotive with them becoming progressively lighter as you get to the rear of the train. Not only that, but such a formation would go better in reverse when being pushed. Something to bear in mind if you want to emulate Pendon's coal extravaganza.

 

 

Chris

Edited December 31, 2016 by Chris Higgs

[garethashenden]

You have hit the nail on the head there Jerry a fairly limited range of weights is the best idea. Heavy wagons at the rear can pull light ones in front off on tight curves. This can happen in all scales, probably less so in 2mm where we can usually find room for gentler curves.

Don 

It happens fairly often on full sized railroads as well. Long light cars are the most susceptible, such as these centerbeam flatcars.

[Donw]

Putting my mathematician's hat on here, surely it is just the total weight of the wagons behind the first wagon that causes the problem, not necessarily that they have different weights. So 100 wagons weighing 10g each will have the same effect as 50 at 20g. For sure having heavy wagons at the back will make the problem occur quicker, but it will in the end occur anyway, even with all wagons of even weight.

 

If you want a longer train to go around a sharp curve, the best would be to have heavier wagons next to the locomotive with them becoming progressively lighter as you get to the rear of the train. Not only that, but such a formation would go better in reverse when being pushed. Something to bear in mind if you want to emulate Pendon's coal extravaganza.

 

 

Chris

 

It is the difference in weights that makes the most difference. Wagons that are a reasonable weight are able to hold the road better when pulling other wagons behind. If all the wagons are similar weights you do not have to worry where they are placed in the train.

Don

[CF MRC]

On a dead flat line, wagon weight isn't a major concern. Bring in substantial gradients, such as we have on CF, and the effect of heavy wagons and carriages becomes obvious. I am very wary of fully etched wagon & carriage kits for that reason. They need lightening, if anything.

 

Tim

[Nigelcliffe]

On a dead flat line, wagon weight isn't a major concern. Bring in substantial gradients, such as we have on CF, and the effect of heavy wagons and carriages becomes obvious. I am very wary of fully etched wagon & carriage kits for that reason. They need lightening, if anything.

 

Tim

 

Agreed.   I've got a four-coach rake of LNER coaches from some of Chris Higgs designs.  Look wonderful, and were fun to build, but they are a very heavy load for a loco to haul around.  An eight coach rake would be beyond most locos.   The trouble with reducing weight is working out how to do it, and ideally, doing it as the thing is being built.  

 

-  Nigel