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When did the GWR start painting permanent way wagons black ?


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I am modelling the GWR during the period 1900-1910...or trying to. When did they start painting the brake vans black ? Were all permanent way wagons, such as ballast wagons and brake vans, black ? In many of the old black and white photographs in books these wagons do not look black.

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Guest dilbert

Jim Russell in one of his tomes (I think it was 'Freight Wagons and Loads In Service on the GWR and BR(WR))' states that a PW wagon in circa 1928 was painted in the usual departmental black.

 

I have never seen any other reference regarding GW PW wagons as being painted in black - these are always referenced as GWR grey (which over time would become very grubby in any case as service stock)... dilbert

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According the "The Great Western Way" from 1904 all stock was now painted grey before that it had been brown or red. Brake vans went grey earlier.

The only change was in the lettering (1920, 1936, 1942) There were some exceptions such as white meat vans and "Brown" vehicles, but I can't immediately find any reference to black goods stock. EDIT gunpowder vans were black with red cross & creosote tanks black also.

 

Keith

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To quote from "Railway Liveries GWR" Brian Haresnape for the period from 1923 "Engineers' Dept and Loco Dept wagons were black with white lettering."

 

OK, not quite the same period and a period known for changes in the Loco liveries. I cannot find any earlier reference or indication of when it started.

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Looking further through my books it seems that only some of these wagons were painted black and no specific information is provided to say which ones and when! All other aspects of GWR liveries seem to be well covered.

For instance see here : http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagonred.html

 

I think you have plenty more research ahead Brian if you want a definitive answer.

 

Keith

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I think you have plenty more research ahead Brian if you want a definitive answer.

 

Keith

 

I think the safest thing to do is to paint them grey unless somebody can find some definite information about painting/dates or find some photographs of such wagons painted black during this period.

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Having both a gunpowder van and a ballast open to paint its interesting to see the debate on colour

 

Certainly looking at photos in the Akins book, the gunpowder van looked grey to me

Though I've yet to find a photo of the prototype for the Kirk ballast wagon, so will be temped to get the black paint our based on what I've read so far

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