RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted June 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2011 Been meaning for some time to set up some sort of proper lighting for Llanybarachel. The overall size is 6'10" x 2'4" so I guess a 6' fluorescent tube would be best, or does anyone have a better solution? I'd heard spotlights are good but can they cause too much heat? Also, I need some way of mounting the lights and attaching the whole thing to the sides of the layout without impeding the access; the sides are the 2x1 timbers side on so I would imagine some sort of bracing would be in order. And would it have to go along the front edge or slightly behind? And how high off the layout should it be? Lots of ponderables here - Any help/suggestions would be great ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I've never lit a layout, but I am a photographer so appreciate the value of good lighting. Personally I would 'under light' it a bit as too much light can ruin colours and flatten out texture. My favourite light source is the MKI sun and if I was lighting a layout properly I'd probably use the sun as a reference. I'd say spot lights are bad as the sun isn't a spotlight, and diffused light is good as this replicates cloud cover. Can't advice really on what to use as the lightsource, although a diffused flourescent might be a good source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted June 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have lit Avonwick with spots. The heat is not an issue (they are nearly 18inch above the layout) but the focused nature of the light rather than the diffused light you get from a tube does cause issues. I have ended up with lighter and darker spots on the backscene (not shadows) that I have tried to correct by placing lights facing the back scene with only limited effect. Where I to redo the lighting I would be looking at the tube solution (and this is likely to be used for the next layout). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I have used spots and tubes on different layouts. The problem with spots is that they do seem to create shadows which really make no visual sense, but the light does seem cleaner. where to support it rather depends on the layout. in both of my layouts that currently have lighting rigs they were designed in as much as the backscene or baseboard. Both are short layouts though. Whatever system you use it will have to be self-supporting as the bet is your backscene will not be strong enough. they can be relatively heavy and when leaning out over the baseboard the forces of collapse are magnified. There was an excellent thread on lighting but I can't seem to pick it out of the many asked that come up on a search. spots tubes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Having struggled recently in less than perfect conditions at a show I too have decided to light my layout at last. My nameboard has now moved up above the layout and I have picked up a neat little 3 spot light fitting from Ikea (£6). I was concerned about the amount of heat that these halogen lights might produce so at the same time I bought a set of their LED GU10 replacement lamps (£9). To prevent shadows forming I have installed a 6" wide offcut of clear acrylic underneath the lights which I sprayed with a can of frosting spray to create a diffuser. Result - I can see again - hurrah! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2011 What ever solution you decide upon beware of shadows. These can be a photographer's nightmare and the more so if spots or incandescent bulbs are used in a way which creates pools of light and shade. I would give serious thought to a diffused strip set-up or, if possible, consider up-lighting with a concealed strip on the viewing side and angled slightly across the scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Nice to know my photographers 'nouse' makes sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted June 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2011 What ever solution you decide upon beware of shadows. These can be a photographer's nightmare and the more so if spots or incandescent bulbs are used in a way which creates pools of light and shade. I would give serious thought to a diffused strip set-up or, if possible, consider up-lighting with a concealed strip on the viewing side and angled slightly across the scene. Interesting about the last point; I've often thought that brighter lighting overhead tends to create an image of shiny roofs and darker underframes; I would like to highlight the frames and end details of my locos so something on one side makes sense...and apart from 12 o'clock midday there are always shadows one side or other...thing is; how to implement this...drawing pads at the ready chaps !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted June 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2011 Nice to know my photographers 'nouse' makes sense Indeed it does; another point-of-view is from an artist's perspective - my father has always lit his "studio" with blue and clear incandescent bulbs to create "daylight" conditions and prevent colour fade, which is probably a point to consider for a layout...apparantely the new "daylight" bulbs are too white in the spectrum and create too much unnatural glare...complicated stuff this lighting business... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Indeed it does; another point-of-view is from an artist's perspective - my father has always lit his "studio" with blue and clear incandescent bulbs to create "daylight" conditions and prevent colour fade, which is probably a point to consider for a layout...apparantely the new "daylight" bulbs are too white in the spectrum and create too much unnatural glare...complicated stuff this lighting business... If you built the lighting to be a few inches in front of the baseboard that might work. Most exhibitions seem to employ barriers to keep the public back so having a lighting rig slightly overhanging the layout should be ok and would light the front of the stock a bit, as if it was 2pm/10am rather than midday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2011 If you built the lighting to be a few inches in front of the baseboard that might work. Most exhibitions seem to employ barriers to keep the public back so having a lighting rig slightly overhanging the layout should be ok and would light the front of the stock a bit, as if it was 2pm/10am rather than midday. I found that having the lighting suspended slightly in front of the layout did improve the view. I then found that my fellow operators liked running the layout from the front side too. I used six spots in a 3m length which gave plenty of light but the spread was uneven the intensity varying. I angled them slightly which helped. I have since used flourescent tubes. Points to watch if you are using spots over the front they need to be high enough to clear the heads of viewers/ operators. Spots can get quite hot. You must take spare bulbs to an exhibition the bulbs seem a bit fragile. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 There is an important point to remember, especially for the operator(s) of layouts concerns. If the layout relies on hand-of-god 3-link the lighting can be very annoying for them. They require light between the stock to see what they are doing not heavy shadows. But, more importantly they do not want to have bright lights shining in their eyes. This may be why those operators prefer to work from the front as they are shielded from the glare of bright lights even at the expense of not being so shielded from the punters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Out of curiosity, what would you guys recommend for an 8x6 pent shed with split level layouts in it? New project starting soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted July 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2011 Out of curiosity, what would you guys recommend for an 8x6 pent shed with split level layouts in it? Tubes. It does not make much difference where the layout is when it comes to lighting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Cheers Kris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Consider contacting David Zelly via the Mid Essex Model Railway Club for lighting advice. He is a professional Stage Manager and has all manner of recommendations regarding lighting levels, qualities and colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted August 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2011 I tried spots first then redid with a tube , that was a 5 ft tube on a 6 ft scenic section, if you think the tone of the light is too harsh you can get softer ones that are intended for kitchens, they are a little dearer than standard but not as expensive as 'daylight' tubes and more easily available (DIY shed etc.) You probably can get good results with spot or other non tube lighting but I hate shadows! hth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The thread referred to by Kenton is called Layout lighting and was initiated by trisonic on 2 April 2011. I've extracted my contribution which is probably relevant to the current discussion: "I did some research on colour temperature before building my lighting rig which is taken out to exhibitions. 3200K - Sunrise / sunset 4100K - Moonlight 5000K - Daylight 6500 - 7500K - Overcast sky 9000 - 12000K - Blue sky I thought about a low voltage system, but this would have been very expensive and required ballasts above head height. I decided instead for double insulated flourescent tubes, which will be about 4000K. These provide plenty of illumination for layouts and I find that the Mark 1 eyeball can cope with the yellow tinge. The issue is with photography, where the yellow tinge is obvious. Thoughts about a non-exhibition layout. Looking in a catalogue from Aurora, there are compact flourescent lamps up to 6400K which I would augment with blue light emitting diodes." I need to load my lighting rig, 21 foot of layout and my 0 gauge stock into a Vectra. So my rig is based on market stall technology and comprises interconnecting metal poles, the means of connecting the rig to the layout, a holdall of tubes and connectors and a pelmet from grey curtain material. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted August 4, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2011 I need to load my lighting rig, 21 foot of layout and my 0 gauge stock into a Vectra. So my rig is based on market stall technology and comprises interconnecting metal poles, the means of connecting the rig to the layout, a holdall of tubes and connectors and a pelmet from grey curtain material. Bill Many thanks for all the information in this Bill; I've been looking elsewhere at possible rigging including poles and pelmets - the inspiration from market stalls should have come to me sooner living in Walthamstow (home of Europe's longest street market!!)..doh Lighting remains a foreign country to me but the values you've given look interesting - my Dad uses a daylight fluorescent - the name of which escapes me for now - for oil painting on canvas, so not dissimilar mediums...just need it to spread across nearly 7 feet...oh well, further investigations needed !! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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