rouse2037 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I'm not 100% sure why, but I fancy a dabble with some HO. I really like the look of the livery on Norfolk Southern Railway diesels and I have seen a GE U23B with QSI sound available on Model Junctions site. (Apparently the real things are still around too, working short lines?) This would be great perhaps as I build micro's/inglenooks? What sort of stock could I use with such a loco? Daft question i guess but a bit of pointing in the right direction would be great please! Thanks a bunch Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 If you're talking inglenook - then i'd suggest with whatever cars you choose to serve the industries you choose...they don't <generalisation!> really do 'this type of loco only pulls those cars'... Why not have a browse of some prototype stuff and see what types of freightcars and loco's you like the look of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 U23Bs are mostly gone and in fact wouldn't have lasted too long under NS, but that's not really a big issue if you want to get started and play around. The Atlas is good quality and should satisfy you for quite a long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Actually for a brief moment in time the NS U23B's would have been operating out of N Platte, Nebraska on the UP. The UP leased a bunch of NS U23B's as "kickers", an extra engine to be added to coal trains to give them a little extra oomph. This would have been in the early to mid 1990's. After a year or so the coal trains were converted to AC's and the operation changed, and the U23B's were returned. The U23B was a generally disliked engine. They really weren't that good as a switcher because, being a GE, the steps were very vertical, which made it difficult for switchmen to get on and off. EMD engines were much preferred as switchers. The UP used/condemned the U23B's to service hauling rock trains in Texas. Many exist today on the UP as RC units. Basically a hulk with a RCL radio reciever in it, that can be coupled to a non-RCL unit to use it as a remote control engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 As for the model, it should (assuming it follows Atlas's normal quality) be an excellent runner. I have the later version - the B23-7 - with sound (2 in fact!) and they are both superb in both their slow running (essential for switching) and the QSI sound which I feel (not wishing to open too big a can of worms ) is superior to the Tsunami sound offered by Athearn. I would reiterate that any kind of stock would suit as freight cars are more tied to the commodities they carry and the industries they serve. However, on a small Inglenook style layout, you could model it in the form of a small classification yard which would be used for sorting all types of different cars and therefore you could use anything! Hope this helps. BTW - keep us posted as I'm always lookiong for suitable layouts for the Trent Valley Show.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 For a 'nook, one way is to get 8 cars, each car in a different colour, and use counters or cards in matching colours - draw 5 from the pot/pack and build your train in that order - exactly what Alan Wright did on his Inglenook. Use a small loco - and switch away - you can make the scenics as complicated as you like. There are loads of layout ideas on www,carent.us By the way Welcome - ts great to see the "Dark Side" get its hooks into another customer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2011 What sort of stock could I use with such a loco? Daft question i guess but a bit of pointing in the right direction would be great please! Era counts for a lot in US modelling, as it does everywhere else. The U23B was a late-60s model - so make sure none of the freight cars you buy has a roof-walk, which were standard in earlier times, but no longer to be used in interchange service among railroads after the mid-60s. The disadvantage of modelling this or later eras in an inglenook is that the vast majority of boxcars were now 50', rather than the 40' which had been more common in the 40s and 50s, so you get fewer, longer cars in the same space. On the up side, the era you are looking at probably includes the big, chunky and colourful "Incentive Per Diem" boxcars. Basically the financial inducements of boxcar ownership and leasing in the early 70s meant that many shortlines invested heavily in cars, to the extent that in some cases if they'd all come home at once, they'd have more than filled every track-mile on the railroad! Who can resist a pretty car that says "Marinette, Tomahawk & Western" on the side? Quality US models are lovely, sound is better developed than in any other market (ESU has not prospered in the US) and the modus operandi of shortlines makes an inglenook very do-able. You are unlikely to regret making the jump! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 WOW! Thanks all so very much for the friendly advice and info! Really got me thinking now!! I enjoy switching (oops, i mean shunting!) on my inglenook - Neptune Road (see my blog) - and I use wagon labels, shuffled and draw 5 from 8, to determine the consist order - great fun and takes about 20 mins to complete. Jack - I sent you an article for possible interest in MTI? Where's me wallet Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Joined this Group - thanks for the invite - and placed an order for 1 rather nice looking (and hopefully sounding) diesel. Small dent in debit card . Track ... Code 83? is it correct in sleeper spacing etc etc? or Would code 75 heavily weathered in a yard look as good - sorry for the often asked can o' worms. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2011 Code 83 is reckoned to look more prototypical for US HO, and certainly the points look much more that way than British. I would say it's a reasonable basis for a modern layout, but it does represent a slightly heavier rail section than would be found on many older shortlines. I regard that as a compromise worth having, particularly if you are going to have the track partly covered, as might be the case in industrial areas, where roads and track "merge". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Joined this Group - thanks for the invite - and placed an order for 1 rather nice looking (and hopefully sounding) diesel. Small dent in debit card . Track ... Code 83? is it correct in sleeper spacing etc etc? or Would code 75 heavily weathered in a yard look as good - sorry for the often asked can o' worms. Roger Roger - I'm sure the loco will be beyond your expectations (looking to get shot down in flames here!!). I think Atlas are one of the best around. I always feel disappointed when I go back to my UK stuff after having used my US stuff. Hornby class 31 and class 60 are probably the best in my opinion that rival Atlas. Ian (Olddudders) is right about the prototypical look of code 83 but my main gripe about it (Peco) is why is it more expensive than their code 75 or 100? I have used all three - on an exhibition layout that is likely to take a few knocks, I tend to favour code 100 for its robustness. I have suffered the occasional damge on code 75. Having said that, my latest effort (North Plains - see June Continental Modeller) is code 75! Doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Welcome Roger, You can't go far wrong with an 'inglenook' arrangement as an introduction to US modelling. Operation can also be quite prototypical. I'd certainly also recommend Atlas Gold Series DCC sound -fitted locos, they're superb for slow switching control. Check out my 'inglenook' layout CSX Palmetto Spur in 'Overseas Modelling' . Here's a link to a video of the layout. regards, Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Many exist today on the UP as RC units. Basically a hulk with a RCL radio reciever in it, that can be coupled to a non-RCL unit to use it as a remote control engine. Dear Dave, LA UP Switching fans, Dave, you mean these CCRCLs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Car_Remote_Control_Locomotive http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?locomotive=CCRCL (start at 2:45) Not that I want to give the game away, but I picked up a cheap B'mann U23B at a show recently... (should work a treat between a pair of SW1500s, watch this space...) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 WOW! Thanks all so very much for the friendly advice and info! Really got me thinking now!! I enjoy switching (oops, i mean shunting!) on my inglenook - Neptune Road (see my blog) - and I use wagon labels, shuffled and draw 5 from 8, to determine the consist order - great fun and takes about 20 mins to complete. Jack - I sent you an article for possible interest in MTI? Where's me wallet Roger Yup - that is away with Chris! If you have the room, and fancy something a little bigger than an Inglenook, but more like an extended version, - look at Jack Hills Blog http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Code 83 is reckoned to look more prototypical for US HO, and certainly the points look much more that way than British. I would say it's a reasonable basis for a modern layout, but it does represent a slightly heavier rail section than would be found on many older shortlines. I regard that as a compromise worth having, particularly if you are going to have the track partly covered, as might be the case in industrial areas, where roads and track "merge". The base of the Code 75 and Code 83 Peco rails are identical. This means, if you are patient enough, you can strip the rail form a length of Peco Code 83, and replace it with Code 75 for a lower profile. The differing sleepers on Code 75 points don't stand out too much. I suspect most people think its too much of a faff, but the rail for my portable shunty plank is done like this, so I know it can be done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yup - that is away with Chris! If you have the room, and fancy something a little bigger than an Inglenook, but more like an extended version, - look at Jack Hills Blog http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/ Thanks Jack. Great link to a great blog spot! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Thanks again all for the info - what a great group! (Northpoint) Nick - really looking forward to the loco arriving tomorrow. Glad it's Friday! Toy and train fair to go to on Saturday - cant make the RM Web weekend sadly - so will be on the look out for HO! I have a fair bit of new code 75 doing nothing but will take a look at the 83. Also got some C&L but thats for the next "it's the last one i build - honest.." Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted July 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2011 Roger: No reason not to use 40' boxcars into the 60s (and 70s). They were still used and if your industries (or their contacts at the other end) had older spacings, they might have specified shorter cars. (The great example is ore cars -- which stayed the same length because they had to match the ore docks for loading ships.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 BR60103 - thanks for the info. I'm kind of thinking along the tracks of a scrap yard as the main industry - what sort of stock would have been used/still used? for scrap metal movements? I do like the look, shape, livery etc of boxcars tho - so big and heavy looking compared to UK loading gauge etc Off to work at 1pm - should find my parcel there waiting! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm kind of thinking along the tracks of a scrap yard as the main industry - what sort of stock would have been used/still used? for scrap metal movements? Generally Gondola's - open wagons. Here's a (fairly modern) example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stealw0rker/4911751365/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 .....and if you would like a rather nice example of a small scrap yard layout http://7daymodelrailroad.blogspot.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Depends on what type of scrap. Scrap metal would move in gondolas. The most common mill gondolas in the WW1 to WW2 eras would be a 40-46 ft gon. From around WW2 until about the 1980's it would have been a 52' 6" gon and then after the 1980's a 65 ft gon would probably be most prevalent. Also starting in the 1980's and 1990's, surplus high side coal gons were being put into scrap service. Scrap paper or cloth would be in bales and loaded in boxcars, they would be the lower quality cars. Sometimes scrap aluminum would be baled and put in boxcars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium chris-shay Posted July 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2011 Good to see another convert to teh Dark side. The timescales for the roofwalks on boxcars was fairly flexible in the end I believe. Theoretically no new cars were to be built with roofwalks beyond 1966 (with a few exceptions - covered hoopers being the most obvious )and they all had tohave been removed from all cars by 1974, however, this date was then extended until 1978. Even then there were some that slipped through the net for quite a few years after. (Tied in with this is the location of teh brake wheels.) One of the Kalmbach Model Railroader series of books covers freight cars in great detail and is well worth getting. As far as the disappearance of company colours of pre-merger railroads went then this was an even longer timescale as cars were generally repainted at the most convenient maintenance point. I remember seeing a grain hopper in Great Northern Big Sky blue colours (very faded!) in a train crossing Stevens Pass in April 2000 - and that is 30 years after the creation of the BN and even a few after the BNSF. Basically, with a little bit of research and common sense there is probably a precent for most things...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Thanks again for all the info and links! What a great group this is!! Very pleased to report my new U23B arrived this morning. (Northpoint) Nick - man you are SO right! What a fantastic piece of kit. Looks superb, runs like a dream - so slow and such a very quiet motor. Sounds fantastic too with all those options on start up and shut down etc. Shopping trip tomorrow - track and stock! Glad it's Friday Thanks again Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Depends on what type of scrap. Scrap metal would move in gondolas. The most common mill gondolas in the WW1 to WW2 eras would be a 40-46 ft gon. From around WW2 until about the 1980's it would have been a 52' 6" gon and then after the 1980's a 65 ft gon would probably be most prevalent. Also starting in the 1980's and 1990's, surplus high side coal gons were being put into scrap service. Scrap paper or cloth would be in bales and loaded in boxcars, they would be the lower quality cars. Sometimes scrap aluminum would be baled and put in boxcars. Thanks Dave - interesting info. Would a RR co like Norfolk Southern have it's own liveried gondolas for say scrap metal use? Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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