What is the smallest distance permissable between permanent platform structures and the platform edge?

[cary hill]

Are there any rules or regulations which stipulate the minimum permissable distance between the platform edge and permanent platform stuctures such as buildings and footbridges? I assume modern legislation covers this, but I am more interested in "historical" practice.

 

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

David

[Weekday Cross]

The 2mm scale Ass site has a nice diagram showing dimensions - double up scale dimensions if you are modelling in 4mm scale

 

http://2mm.org.uk/standards/loadinggauge.htm

[amdaley]

Are there any rules or regulations which stipulate the minimum permissable distance between the platform edge and permanent platform stuctures such as buildings and footbridges? I assume modern legislation covers this, but I am more interested in "historical" practice.

 

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

David

 

This distance is 6ft I understand.

[cary hill]

The 2mm scale Ass site has a nice diagram showing dimensions - double up scale dimensions if you are modelling in 4mm scale

 

http://2mm.org.uk/st...oadinggauge.htm

 

Thanks for the prompt reply - I think that diagram answers my question fairly comprehensively.

 

David

[cary hill]

This distance is 6ft I understand.

 

Thanks for confirming the distance as 6ft - I had half an idea that this was the correct distance but I was not sure.

 

David

[amdaley]

Thanks for confirming the distance as 6ft - I had half an idea that this was the correct distance but I was not sure.

 

David

 

You're welcome.I was working from an OO gauge copy of a similar diagram.

[eastwestdivide]

There's probably a whole range of historical exceptions to that 6ft rule.

One example might be the up platform at Loughborough, which had a very narrow bit of platform under the road bridge. The far end of that platform is out of use nowadays, but as recently as the 1980s it was in use, with warning signs on the bridge. Probably have a photo somewhere (possibly of a Skegness-Leicester bucket and spade train)

Edit: visible in the background of this NR stations made easy pic: the platforms extend beyond the bridge and are also lower in height.

[bluebottle]

The 2mm scale Ass site has a nice diagram showing dimensions - double up scale dimensions if you are modelling in 4mm scale

http://2mm.org.uk/st...oadinggauge.htm

That's an interesting measurement on this diagram showing clearance from a column - or is it a lamp standard? - as 5' rather than the 6' from a wall. If it's from a canopy column, this could be useful when trying to squeeze in an island platform; that 8 mm less width (in 4mm scale) could make all the difference.

[cary hill]

There's probably a whole range of historical exceptions to that 6ft rule.

One example might be the up platform at Loughborough, which had a very narrow bit of platform under the road bridge. The far end of that platform is out of use nowadays, but as recently as the 1980s it was in use, with warning signs on the bridge. Probably have a photo somewhere (possibly of a Skegness-Leicester bucket and spade train)

Edit: visible in the background of this NR stations made easy pic: the platforms extend beyond the bridge and are also lower in height.

 

 

That's a good exception to the "rule" and local to me too!

 

David

[Grovenor]

A similar exception still in use I think at Bracknell, on the up platform.

Keith

[RJS1977]

Just about to say Bracknell (I worked at the Met office for 6 years!). What makes that even more of an oddity is that the 'permanent feature' is a pier for the road bridge at the end of the station, which has holes in it perpendicular to the platform edge that you used to be able to walk through. In recent years they've fenced these off so if the train door comes next to the pier you have to walk along the edge of the platform!

[Chubber]

Bishops Lydeard [WSR] signal box is perilously close to the edges of the platform, and indeed signs attached either side warn passengers 'not to wait' there. I didn't measure the gap but it did appear to be less than 6ft!

 

 

 

Doug

[melmerby]

Presumably those dimensions: http://2mm.org.uk/st...oadinggauge.htm were for any work carried out post 1950.

 

If you are talking GWR the 13' 6" height is nonsense as some of the locos get perilously close to that height e.g. Early 47XX was 13' 5 1/2" to top of chimney and likewise GWR had 9' 7" wide carriages!

 

As other correspondents have noted there are plenty of earlier structures which do not meet those dimensions.

 

Keith

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I downloaded these from here ages ago:-

 

 

[RJS1977]

Slightly off-topic but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Liverpool and Manchester was originally laid with the 'six foot' between the tracks also at 4'8 i/2" to enable trains carrying out-of-gauge loads to run down the middle. This seems rather far-fetched - has anyone else heard of this?

[TheSignalEngineer]

The first place I know of where 6 feet for platform widths is written down is here. It also mentions the 6 foot interval between adjacent lines BoT 1858 requirements

[Gwiwer]

The clearance at Bishop's Lydeard signalbox is just under five feet. Axminster has a road bridge across the station meaning a brick arch is extremely close to the trains; the clearance at the platform is less than six feet and is probably no more than a foot clear at the top of an open carriage door. That is less of an issue now that swing-doors are almost a thing of the past.

[Edwin_m]

Thanks to TheSignalEngineer for that link, which confirms my suspicion that it is a longstanding requirement. Hence exceptions ought to be rare. IIRC Board of Trade inspection was only needed for new lines, so perhaps the exceptions mentioned were sneaked in during later platform extensions?

 

I seem to remember there is a L&M platform canopy at Earlestown with columns much less than 6ft from the platform edge. This probably predates any regulation, and is no doubt listed so cannot be changed now.

[Grovenor]

The requirement given in the link just talks about 'platform width' later requirements brought in 'clear unobstructed width etc. and that would have been because the original was not interpreted in that way. And exceptions have always been negotiable .

Regards

Keith

[TheSignalEngineer]

For some later references see this document. Although it is listed on the Railway Archive site as being 1902, it appears to be the 1885 Requirements with later changes. The footer would indicate that this copy was printed in May 1892, so may have been altered to comply with the 1889 Act, as a number of clauses which were recommendations become compulsory. BoT Link 2

 

The Requirements were further updated in at least 1914, c1925 and 1950, with a metric version of the structural and electrical clearances in 1977. The latter gives the clear width on platforms of 2 metres.

 

As for exceptions, there were, and still are, many. IIRC the Up Widened Lines platform at Farringdon was and may still be only about 5 feet wide at the running in end.

[hairyhandedfool]

The footbridge at Leagrave must come pretty close to being under 6ft on Platform 2 and 3 also. A google search brought the picture in the link to light, it's the best I could find.

 

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/69/12/691208_456aa3c6.jpg

[Gwiwer]

I referred to Axminster station above and have now found links to a suitable images. These are quite recent as the up platform has been reinstated and also it can be seen that the down platform, which extends east of the bridge, is no longer in regular use that far back. A western extension has rendered the narrow area redundant though the eastern end is still equipped with lighting. The platforms in use have also been raised slightly to give near-level access to the class 159 stock used on the line.

 

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_USzog_GOzyA/So6TrmrT_NI/AAAAAAAALh8/4vhFGGPdj08/s400/axminster1.jpg

[Jim Martin]

Cressington station, on the Merseyrail Northern Line, has extremely narrow platforms at its northern (Liverpool) end. This photo shows the bridge across the station and you can see both how narrow it is at this point and (if you look closely at the left-hand - down or northbound- platform) also that it doesn't get any wider beyond the bridge. The up platform isn't visible in this photo, but it's a similar width. These platforms are in regular use - you can see the "3-car" stop sign mounted on the bridge, but 6-car sets stop well beyond this point. I very much doubt that the platform is even five feet wide at this end.

 

Jim

[flyingsignalman]

Green Lane on the Merseyrail Wirral line to Chester and Ellesmere Port has very narrow platforms at either end of the station where they are in tunnels. There are now signs telling passengers not to alight there. The full length of the platforms are only used when 6 car trains are run.

 

Not quite connected with platforms, the LNWR would site signals as close as 4' 6" to the railhead if necessary. A diagram for the signalling of the additional lines at Port Sunlight Sidings, Ca 1902, shows that 7' 0" would be used if there was space; between the down fast & up slow (the 10') and the down slow & a siding 4' 6" was used.

[jamie92208]

Long Preston (My last model) only has 4' clearance under the road bridge on the down platform. This is still in daily use but most trains stop before the bridge. The area that is narrow is covered in yellow hatchings and if a 4 car train uses the station the front two coaches would be north of the bridge. There used to be a foot crossing but that has now gone and the road bridge is used as the footbridge.

 

Jamie