Karhedron Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 This set is on sale at Rails for 1 day only at £59.50. http://railsofsheffield.com/pendolino-mk3-bookset-dvt-3-first-class-coaches-nc-067-JJJA14795.aspx No connection, just a satisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Hiya, Is there likely to be any indication yet if Dapol are going to produce the missing coaches from the full rake? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu from EGDL Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Hi There; Indications 'were' that the missing coaches were to be produced if demand warranted it. I dare say that if Dapol have sold their quota of Pretendolino sets to traders, then that will be the case. Another factor may be feedback from traders, if they have unsold stock on their shelves. Best bet is to ask a tame trader if they are pushing for the production to happen (or not). I remain hopeful that at least the buffet will be produced. Later... STU from EGDL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hiya Speaking to a rep on the Dapol stand this weekend, sales of these have not been great. There is little likelihood of further production of the missing examples apparently. Might need to some how produce our own. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 13, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2010 A bit of a chicken and egg situation really - one-off set that is very new into service. I must confess that I have held off buying one until I was sure that Dapol would actually produce the other vehicles. Incidentally Rails have the box set on offer for £49.50 and the SOs on for 16.50, which is very tempting, but not much use without the remaining coaches. Unfortunately, I suspect it will be very difficult to match the factory finish on this set. Hopefully Dapol will re-consider or consider a pre-order short run of the missing coaches - given that they are effectively producing to traders' orders on some stuff now, it is only one step further to ask customers to directly pre-order the remaining coaches. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi guys, sorry, bad 'gen'. We will be producing at least 2 more coaches in this livery but as a limited run (we havnt sold out of sets or coaches yet), and these will be in a 'twin pack' of Buffet and a second class coach. We just need to finish the buffet first. cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 13, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi guys, sorry, bad 'gen'. We will be producing at least 2 more coaches in this livery but as a limited run (we havnt sold out of sets or coaches yet), and these will be in a 'twin pack' of Buffet and a second class coach. We just need to finish the buffet first. Excellent news Dave Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Well theres a turn out for the books! Thank you very much for that. As ever, always helpful. Cheers Dave Regards Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium steam-driven boy Posted September 14, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2010 Hi, Delighted to hear that commitment, I'll be snapping a 'pack' up just as soon as ordering opens B) Regards, Gerry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Just wanted to bump this topic due to this weekends show. As stated above by Dave, whats the current status of the Virgin Silver Mk3 coaches? Not heard a peep in 12 months now. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I guess with no word forth coming, its a sign that the remaining coaches will not be materialising. This has fallen foul of the same debacle as the HST booksets. I guess Im after closure really. Dapol haven't yet proven they will release a full rake on a loco hauled train. Just the bulk coaches and the locos. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hi, sorry but i'm at a loss here. We have stated that we will be doing a twin pack of both Virgin 'Pretendolino' and 'W&SR' MK3's consisting of a RFM buffet and a missing MK3 coach from each livery produced. I have also stated a few times on here that the buffet is gettign there (in fact its in the tool room now). As for the 'debacle of the HST book sets', how so? because there is no buffet or TGS? well if it was that simple and cash was abumdant they would all be out by now. As stated on other threads the RFM has been very troublesome, but will come first and the TGS will come later. Tool time is at apremium at the moment, and so is good hard cash. Sorry but this is the way it is out there at the moment, and priorities have to go to the items that give bigger returns. Howeverr the RFM, as stated, has been problematical, but is not 'cured' to the best of our abilities. One thing to remember is this...........a tool costs between £8000 - £10000 for the body and underfloor and roof combined plus another tool for the glazing. It's not as though we are merely printing detail on clear acrylic and can do this within days (literally if we had gone down that path originally). I hope this clarifies matters for you and that if not you finally get 'closure' (god i hate that expression) lol cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 NIce to know these are still coming. Now all we need is a decent class 90 to haul it. Any chance Dave? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetheroad Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 glad to hear that there will be a buffet for the Pretendolino, meanwhile i am going to buy a spare coach 'just in case'. For the beautifull grand central HST the power units and 2 coaches (1 1st class) are available plus individual 2nd class coaches but no 1st as yet. are these to be released as a GC HST would make a fine Thames-Clyde Express under open access. Meanwhile I have a choice to make. 1. buy a couple of Farish midland pullman coaches and use that for the thames-clyde 2. buy a complete 8 coach Farish X-country HST for £50 less than...... 3. Buy the available bits of the Dapol grand central and hope! A interesting point about tooling costs. I presume producing a plain coach side and printing the detail costs a lot less and coach vinyls seem to be acceptable to many modellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 A interesting point about tooling costs. I presume producing a plain coach side and printing the detail costs a lot less and coach vinyls seem to be acceptable to many modellers. Whilst is does cost silghtly less, the real saving is that you do not need different toolings for different vehicles, just different printed detail (much cheaper and easier). In N gauge, you can get away without surface relief, particularly on smooth-sided vehicles like a Mk3 coach. Having said that, I know which I would prefer given the choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2011 NIce to know these are still coming. Now all we need is a decent class 90 to haul it. Any chance Dave? Please no! The Farish 90 is not that bad and pretty easy to upgrade. What we need is missing units not more duplication. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Please no! The Farish 90 is not that bad and pretty easy to upgrade. What we need is missing units not more duplication. Cheers, Mike I'd second that! Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Please no! The Farish 90 is not that bad and pretty easy to upgrade. What we need is missing units not more duplication. Cheers, Mike Really..? Given that there are exactly two natural follow on models for Dapol to go to from the work done on the 86 which would benefit from existing tooling, I'd rather have this kind of duplication where it would be a clear upgrade. It's like saying we didn't "need" the HST and MK3's because they the Farish ones are "not that bad and pretty easy to upgrade". To me the Farish 90 is heavily compromised, I'd rather buy a Dapol one I didn't need to upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2011 Really..? Given that there are exactly two natural follow on models for Dapol to go to from the work done on the 86 which would benefit from existing tooling, I'd rather have this kind of duplication where it would be a clear upgrade. It's like saying we didn't "need" the HST and MK3's because they the Farish ones are "not that bad and pretty easy to upgrade". To me the Farish 90 is heavily compromised, I'd rather buy a Dapol one I didn't need to upgrade. Yes, really - what is heavily compromised about the Farish 90? The fairing mounted on the bogies is the only thing I can think of and that is relatively trivial thing to sort (and still allow most trainset curves if necessary, the difficulty is the coupling but I removed that from the front of the loco anyway). There are improvements with the cab dome, grilles and OHL equipment/panto that can be made, but they are not huge. I fully accept that not everyone will want to make these changes, but then apart from the fairing I am not sure how much people would actually notice the differences. Don't get me wrong I am all for new models if the existing model does not look much like the real thing or there is some bad error that is difficult to correct, but I would argue that isn't the case for the 90 (unlike say the 56). Furthermore I am not sure that they are natural follow on models - they have to be sure that the sales of a new 87 or 90 would justify their investment, which means the Farish 87 or 90 has to be able to be sufficiently improved upon. Again not something I am convinced about (unlike the HST or 56). You may not agree but I would much rather have any number of locos or units that are not available than yet more duplication. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Yes, really - what is heavily compromised about the Farish 90? The fairing mounted on the bogies is the only thing I can think of and that is relatively trivial thing to sort (and still allow most trainset curves if necessary, the difficulty is the coupling but I removed that from the front of the loco anyway). To my mind that is almost the definition of heavily compromised... Furthermore I am not sure that they are natural follow on models - they have to be sure that the sales of a new 87 or 90 would justify their investment, which means the Farish 87 or 90 has to be able to be sufficiently improved upon. Again not something I am convinced about (unlike the HST or 56). The 87 and 90 are natural follow ons from the point of view of shared components. The chassis and bogies (though not the side frames) already exist. The existing body work CAD is a good starting point to produce that of each of the 87 and 90 from given commonality of the prototype (the 87 was a modernised 86, and the 90 a further modernished 87). Dapol's design costs would be reduced over tooling another loco from scratch and their time to market quicker too so the return on investment potentially higher than a completely fresh tooling. Does the market support Dapol doing it? Dunno - that's Dapol's call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2011 To my mind that is almost the definition of heavily compromised... Crikey - how would you describe the 56 or old 37s, 47s etc? In terms of having a fairing and coupling then you are already into a compromise - you can't have a full fairing with a coupling anyway. What you might be able to do is a body mounted fairing with a slot for the coupling, but that is still going to be pretty ugly. The problem is that because of the shape/size of the fairing you are actually quite limited in space for any sort of coupling unit. The 87 and 90 are natural follow ons from the point of view of shared components. The chassis and bogies (though not the side frames) already exist. The existing body work CAD is a good starting point to produce that of each of the 87 and 90 from given commonality of the prototype (the 87 was a modernised 86, and the 90 a further modernished 87). Dapol's design costs would be reduced over tooling another loco from scratch and their time to market quicker too so the return on investment potentially higher than a completely fresh tooling. Agreed, but only if you can sell the thing, if you can't sell it then there is little benefit in the development costs being cheaper than a completely new model! The 86 there was no competition, but the Farish 87 and 90 have been around for a while and as I said are not bad models so potential customers may be unwilling to upgrade. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetheroad Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I have Farish 87's and 90's and am quite happy with them . The 90 is quite cute in a weird sort of way and mine is smooth and powerful. It will look good pulling the pretendolino. What i would like of course is a nice scotrail version to go with the sleepers. waht Dapol need to do is produce low cost items that lots of people will buy. I would have thought that simple injection mould models as kits might be a cheaper alternative. Signals. OHLE etc. Take modern cars for instance. Imagine a range of popular british MODERN models. they would sell thousands and they can put me down for a few dozen at least. i am keeping a eye on this 3D printing malarky as it might well end up supplanting the major manufacturers for one off items. for example the fancy pointy bits for my hypothetical pendolino scratchbuild. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Crikey - how would you describe the 56 or old 37s, 47s etc? Not as heavily compromised The 91 is far worse... In terms of having a fairing and coupling then you are already into a compromise - you can't have a full fairing with a coupling anyway. What you might be able to do is a body mounted fairing with a slot for the coupling, but that is still going to be pretty ugly. Not as ugly as having the fairing move with the bogie though. Given most of the time you're looking at the loco side on that's the part I'd rather have looking right. The problem is that because of the shape/size of the fairing you are actually quite limited in space for any sort of coupling unit. Body mounted on close coupling mechanism seems to work quite well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2011 Not as ugly as having the fairing move with the bogie though. Given most of the time you're looking at the loco side on that's the part I'd rather have looking right. Body mounted on close coupling mechanism seems to work quite well. But that was my point - where are you going to find the space to do that? You struggle in both the horizontal plane ie behind the fairing and before interfering with bogies and the vertical plane ie because the fairing slopes back towards the bogies. Even if you do fit it in you are still going to be left with a fairly large slot. Having spent some of the summer improving a 90 for an article I've had a pretty good look at this area! PS I suppose you think that the Dapol should a revised 60 given that has the same problem ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adam1701D Posted October 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2011 The Farish 90 and 91 were good models for their time but are severely compromised by the bogie-mounted bufferbeam and fairings. I've improved things on mine by fixing one end to the body and adding pipes, etc but it would take some real surgery to incorporate a body-mounted coupler with sufficient swing. The new Dapol pantograph is also a worthwhile addition. I doubt there's sufficient interest for a newly tooled 91 but an all-new 90 could well succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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