British Railways coach restoration (ex BR paddington layout)

[bertiedog]

A friend has acquired an O gauge all metal coach, in blue livery at present, which was used on a training layout, for Staff, Drivers or signalling, said to be sited at Paddington.

 

Does anybody know anything about the BR Training Layout, stated to be a three rail outside third powered set-up, with signalling etc as per prototype for training or demonstration purposes. The loocos were said to be simple but robusy units, diesel outline.

 

I have seen photos in the past of such a training layout in old copies of the Model Engineer Magazine, but cannot find the reference, does anybody recall seeing or indeed being trained on such a layout, even if not at Paddington.

 

I would like to find out who built the equipment, perhaps Basset Lowke supplied the whole thing to BR or did they build it in house? Does any body have any pictures of the layout.

 

The coach is coming to me to be serviced, minor replacement ventilators and a buffer, and to fit couplings, which it has not got at the moment.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Stephen.

[The Stationmaster]

Hoping for better luck as my first reply vanished into a maze of electronic wotsits

Anyway as far as I know there was no sign of a 'training model railway' anywhere around Paddington in 1966 and i never came across anyone who mentioned knowing anything about such a railway from an earlier time although there might have been something pre-war? The best known training layouts were the one in the L&Y Signalling School at Manchester (now at the NRM York) and the one in the central well of the old LMS College at London Road, Derby; as far as I can recall the latter was out of use by September 1966 and might even have been removed by then - training courses that long ago tend to telescope I'm afraid - but it had very definitely gone by September 1971 (that being the next form date my memory can put against one of my sojourns in the college - always much more fun when one went back years later to give the lectures instead of receiving them).

[LMS2968]

I've never heard of a training layout at Paddington but I did go to the school at Manchester Victoria (before becoming a guard) and did manage a sneak look at the model there. This dated from L&Y days, and although details are sketchy (we're going back nearly forty years) I recall black as the livery. Or is this just thought association?

[bertiedog]

Well the seller provided the following :-

This large all metal BR Coach is 420 mm long and was part of the layout designed for the training of first generation Diesel Crews at Paddington in the late 1950s / early 60s.

 

The track was outside 3 rail with the pick up either side of the locomotive.

 

These included a Class 31, a 37 and 08 shunting engine.

 

The models were relatively basic although powerful and to scale, and ran on 12 volt DC.

 

And the picture shows the model that's coming.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Well the seller provided the following :-

This large all metal BR Coach is 420 mm long and was part of the layout designed for the training of first generation Diesel Crews at Paddington in the late 1950s / early 60s.

 

The track was outside 3 rail with the pick up either side of the locomotive.

 

These included a Class 31, a 37 and 08 shunting engine.

 

The models were relatively basic although powerful and to scale, and ran on 12 volt DC.

 

And the picture shows the model that's coming.

 

That sounds more like the BR exhibition layout to me. The locos also sound wrong for the Western and I can't really see the point of a model railway to train Drivers on locos The main Western Diesel School was at Swindon (Alec Swain was at one time one of the Technical Instructors and as it happens two of my former bosses, one of whom I still see a couple of times each year, were also Technical Instructors there) and of course Western men's basic diesel training was on diesel-hydraulics, not on diesel -electrics (shunters apart). I believe there was a diesel school at Paddington or Old Oak Common at sometime but it would have no need for anything other than - at the most - various components and possibly some instructional models in respect of details on locos and a lot of the training at that level was in any case done at depots by Tutor Drivers and Inspectors. I have most of the original diesel training material from a WR Driver who lived near me before his death and it contains nothing at all about models but is all basic diesel engine theory plus technical explanations for the traction he learnt.

 

However I seem to remember from something that Vic Green wrote in an article some years ago that when he first joined the BR Model Making Section they were based at somewhere in the vicinity of Paddington (Westbourne Terrace perhaps?) so that might possibly be where a Paddington association has crept into the story?

[TheSignalEngineer]

..... the old LMS College at London Road, Derby; ........ always much more fun when one went back years later to give the lectures instead of receiving them).

 

The main thing I remember from the place was the education I got in Single Malts from the bar.

[The Stationmaster]

The main thing I remember from the place was the education I got in Single Malts from the bar.

 

Yes, a very good bar there - Webb House at Crewe was a bit of a come down after getting used to Derby's bar. And an excellent snooker table where I once spent the occasional leisure hours of an intensive 4 week course improving my snooker, hmm, 'skills'.

[James]

I put this on another forum this reply may be of interest -

 

It was at the Signalling School at Royal Oak, just outside Paddington.

 

It was still operational in the early 1960's when I joined the railway and became interested in signalling. As part of the self improvement courses being run then you could do signalling courses by correspondence or by going to Royal Oak one night a week.

 

I had to opt for the former because I couldn't get home to Oxford after the class finished. I don't know when it was stopped bing used, or what happenned to it.

[The Stationmaster]

I put this on another forum this reply may be of interest -

 

Quote

 

It was at the Signalling School at Royal Oak, just outside Paddington.

 

It was still operational in the early 1960's when I joined the railway and became interested in signalling. As part of the self improvement courses being run then you could do signalling courses by correspondence or by going to Royal Oak one night a week.

 

I had to opt for the former because I couldn't get home to Oxford after the class finished. I don't know when it was stopped bing used, or what happenned to it.

Definitely gone or not in use by 1966 then - certainly as far as the courses were concerned as the Signalling Course that year, and subsequently, didn't take place there. Odd tho' that I didn't come across anyone mentioning it as I was working with a number of Relief Signalmen and most of the London Division Signalling Inspectors in 1967/68. Presumably it vanished in an economy drive of some sort?

[bertiedog]

Right the Coach is here, all brass, not a kit as far as I can see, no etched parts all sawn or stamped, Full underframe as a separate chassis, with compensated cast white metal bogies with steel wheels, non-insulated, for outside third 0 gauge.( The locos that once went with it were outside third). I would estimate it is the original blue livery and therefore made in the mid 1960's. No numbers or logos

 

 

 

No builders plates or makers plate, solidly built...with brass beading top and bottom inside, with strengthening partitions, floor only where cylinders are fitted, plastic,( acetate), windows.

 

 

 

But what is the type / designation of BR coach is it?...I do know the basics!!!, but is it a normal arrangement for the windows, ends, type, and what lettering would have been fitted, numbering etc.?

 

Any help appreciated, I will check the net myself of course, but you may know more than the net.........

 

Stephen.

[Dagworth]

Looks like a reasonable approximation of a standard Mk1 GUV to me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BR_Mk1_GUV.jpg

 

Andi

[bertiedog]

Yes a GUV, but I hate putting the obvious up and getting shot down with specifics!!!!!!!! but any further information gratefully appreciated. ......what date did the blue start from?

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The paint is not too bad, it is gloss throughout, which is why reflections are showing on all surface ripples. The paint is iron hard, and will just be rubbed down,and re-touched.

The underframe was originally satin black, but has beeen over painted with brushed on high gloss Dulux

Door detail is missing, so can be gently scored into the thick gloss finish, and handrails etc added to the doors, bars to the windows, etc.

Being high gloss it will take transfers well, so sorting out what numbers to fit for the period.

 

Stephen.