Webbo Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hello, Am I becoming a pedantic rivet counter or just a grumpy old man. The reason being, kit manufacturers go to extreme lengths to give a realistic impression of everything external above rail detail with all their kits, but wagons especially 8 shoe have very little detail regarding brakes other than the shoes, the cross shaft, the vacuum cyl and the triangular operating bracket between the shoes, there is no rodding or levers that show the actual operation of the brakes. I have included a couple of photos to show what I have done to rectify this on some of my wagons, the first one is an ABS mineral and the second is a D A plate kit which is still being built. Hope I haven't offended anyone with my musing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2011 You are not a rivet counter. All the rivet counters I know are pendants that produce the square root of nothing, yet talk as if they have built in every scale and gauge the entire products of Swindon Doncaster and Crewe. That's not a T gauge chassis is it? Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJH584 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wouldn't say that you are a rivet counter. I would regard you as someone who takes their modelling seriously and pays attention to detail - this you have proved by the amount of detail you have added to your wagons. It is unfortunate that, as a general rule, this detail won't normally be seen when a wagon is running on a track. But there again, you will know it is there and have the satisfaction of knowing that it is there. So no, it does not make you a rivet counter - unless you want to be. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hi Richard, its not T gauge its "O" and a poor photo. Alan You are not a rivet counter. All the rivet counters I know are pendants that produce the square root of nothing, yet talk as if they have built in every scale and gauge the entire products of Swindon Doncaster and Crewe. That's not a T gauge chassis is it? Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 kit manufacturers go to extreme lengths to give a realistic impression of everything external above rail detail with all their kits, but wagons especially 8 shoe have very little detail regarding brakes other than the shoes, the cross shaft, the vacuum cyl and the triangular operating bracket between the shoes, there is no rodding or levers that show the actual operation of the brakes. I'm afraid I am firmly in the school of just what is the point? If it cannot be seen on the layout I really do not care. No matter how much effort people go to to show the interior details of vans, or the beneath floor detail of a wagon/coach/loco I just see it as a waste of skills that could be better employed elsewhere. But I can see the point of adding detail to the visual surfaces, though sometimes even here they really do need to be visible at "normal" viewing distance. Rivet counter? I don't think that is the word for it - I'm trying to think of some other plausible yet polite description. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointstaken Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Definitely not a rivet counter, just a rather classy modeller. Dennis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Dunno about counting rivets but it looks like you were having fun and that's all that really matters. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hello, Am I becoming a pedantic rivet counter or just a grumpy old man. 'There is no shame in being a Rivet Counter - The rivets are there for precisely this purpose' - Ancient Chinese Proverb! Seriously - nice to see a modeller going to this extra trouble on underframes, an area close to my own heart Regards, David Parkins, Modern Motive Power Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It is interesting that modellers who purchase RTR products want someone who counts the rivets and gets them right to produce their models, yet are prepared to use the term as a derogatory reference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Look forward to seeing the top half of that first wagon too. I do like fitting the full brake gear to wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 The top half plus the removeable load Look forward to seeing the top half of that first wagon too. I do like fitting the full brake gear to wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Webbo, I don't think that your photos do justice to the effort and detail you've put into your wagons. I would imagine that you apply the same attention to detail to all aspects of your railway modelling and that it would stand up to the close scrutiny of a macro lens as well as being observed from a distance. If you feel you're not up to the job of being a snapper, maybe you could get someone to take photos for you… I think your work deserves this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 not wishing to put the cat amongst the pigeons webbo, but as the premise of your thread is building stock as accurately as possible to prototype I'm sure you know the ABS wagon is not a mineral but a LNER all steel 13T open merchandise wagon, I note you've fitted it with oleo hydraulic buffers so presumably running in later BR condition, were these ever used for the carraige of coal? I know they were used on sand traffic, & in modified form for the carraige of soda ash regards Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm afraid I am firmly in the school of just what is the point? If it cannot be seen on the layout I really do not care. No matter how much effort people go to to show the interior details of vans, or the beneath floor detail of a wagon/coach/loco I just see it as a waste of skills that could be better employed elsewhere. I'm in the camp of the detail should there, just as long as it isn't that time consuming to get there. I have an American Wright Trak resin caboose kit on the workbench at the moment, it has wonderful etches, and lots of fine detail. But they fudged the brake gear etches fro the bits underneath. I'm not sure what it is supposed to represent, but is going to take a couple of evenings to fix the brake gear, most of which is near impossible to see while it is on the track. There is way too much on my workbench, and I really need to get the caboose in service, so it is going to be deficient in this regard. If I fix the brake gear, then it will need an interior, then lights, a conductor... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm afraid I am firmly in the school of just what is the point? If it cannot be seen on the layout I really do not care. No matter how much effort people go to to show the interior details of vans, or the beneath floor detail of a wagon/coach/loco I just see it as a waste of skills that could be better employed elsewhere. But I can see the point of adding detail to the visual surfaces, though sometimes even here they really do need to be visible at "normal" viewing distance. Because not all modellers, especially in 7mm, are building for a layout. To many, the loco, coach or wagon is an end in itself, like with many aircraft or military modellers. I had a customer visit from Switzerland the other week and purchased two of our Mk.1 coaches. He has no real interest in a layout but just likes building locos & stock and wants them to be fully detailed top & botom, inside & out. The fact he had just purchased himself 2-300 hours of modelling time was what pleased him most - and I know several other customers like that. Surely it comes down to personal preference in the end and we can respect both points of view. David Parkins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 not wishing to put the cat amongst the pigeons webbo, but as the premise of your thread is building stock as accurately as possible to prototype I'm sure you know the ABS wagon is not a mineral but a LNER all steel 13T open merchandise wagon, I note you've fitted it with oleo hydraulic buffers so presumably running in later BR condition, were these ever used for the carraige of coal? I know they were used on sand traffic, & in modified form for the carraige of soda ash regards Nigel As a yorkie and living most of my early life (up to the middle 70's) in a pit village connected to the South Yorkshire Joint Railway I can safely say that the xLNER minerals were used in coal traffic, they used to put anything on the freights to the 2 local pits, I will agree that they were not used very often, the mainstay of traffic were of timber built wagons, hoppers and then the merrygorounds. The load was put in just to show what I do, it actually belongs in an ABS 5 plank. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hello, Am I becoming a pedantic rivet counter or just a grumpy old man. I suggest a compromise - a grumpy and pedantic old rivet counter Seriously each to his/her own; we are all have our own peccadilloes! Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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