rsv1000r Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 right then David, that would mean then O10 being vac fitted would mean the brakes are DC111 & not DC11, & the central or off-set V hanger has no bearing? And industrials posted photos are DC11 fitted P15's? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 DC III is the vacuum brake version of DC II. Like DC1, DCII is single ended, i.e. the levers are at one end only, either end of a single cross shaft that also carries the ratchet. There were both long wheelbase and vac fitted forms of DCII (e.g. an N2 photo in Atkins, Beard, Hyde & Tourret ). DCIII (as industrial said) is cross-cornered, i.e. levers at opposite corners, or at the right hand end when viewed from either side. The non-ratchet end has the links shown in industrial's earlier drawing passing along to the ratchet end so that the ratchet could be applied and the pawl could be released from this remote end. Again it could be fitted or unfitted. Apparently (Atkins, et al) the DCIII was discontinued because the BoT required that brakes were released from the same side as they were applied. With DCIII the hand brake could be applied and released from either side. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Excellent! gents, thats cleared that up then,thats why asked the question as it was becoming rather confusing. the reason I mentioned DC111 on O10's industrial was the photo in larkin, pre-nationalisation wagons on BR, bradford Barton shows a Don Rowland photo on page 25 of W29636 in 1959, in freight red, the caption states non-fitted, but although it's the non cylinder side of the wagon, the white star vac release symbol is clearly visible on the sole bar, & doesn't have a single cross shaft for same end brake levers, & is fitted with axleguard tie iron, also fitted with a sheet rail centred on the third plank down. The two bottom end planks have been replaced with steel channel, & in the upper one you can make out the end of the timber block fitted to pick up the top mount of the upright vac pipe. regards Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 that wood presumably explain the angled headstock at the left hand end? to clear the original lever? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2011 Thought with a bit of butchery the Coopercraft chassis would fit. A word of warning with the Coopercraft chassis that may or may not be of concern to you. The floor of chassis sits high resulting in open wagons looking a bit odd inside. I first noticed this when I finished a 5 plank open and was painting the inside - there were only 4 planks showing on the sides above the floor! The easy way round this is of course to model a load or stick a tarp on it. Industrial, thanks for those pics! I have recently been refreshing an old Mink C kit that I couldn't remember for the life of me who the original manufacturer was (I built it over 20years ago). I can see now from your pics that it's the Kirk kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted August 22, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thanks Nigel/Industrial and 57xx for the posts. Most comprehensive. Hopefully, there won't be too much chopping around with the Coopercraft chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think I may of hijacked your thread a little, but DC brake issue was certainly beginning to confuse me, & wondered if you might be in the same boat, hopefully the answers have cleared it up for you as they have me? cheers Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted August 22, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hi Nigel, You certainly haven't hijacked this thread Nigel. It's one of the things RMweb members are good at to be honest. It's been a bit of an education and yes I was getting confused and to a certain extent still am! However, I need to read trough this lot again and digest it before I start to build these three kits once I've got the parts together. Even then I bet I make a mistake! Thanks Nigel and everyone else who has made this topic most enlightening. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted August 29, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi Industrial, Thankyou for the photographs. Certainly, looking at these helps to clarify the differences between the two braking systems. Watch out on my blog for some updates and the customary mistake! Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi Mark, I don't know whether these may help you, but here are some pics from my photo collection of GWR 41277 (1890) on the Severn Valley which is of a Diagram 21. Hope these are of some help to you and if you want any more photos of 41277 let me know. Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Went on the WSR today and at the S&DJR Museum at Washford I took these photos of the V5 which has been converted to a DC3 brakes from a DC1 Strictly speaking that van still has DC1 brakes, but converted to cross-cornered operation to comply with BoT requirements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 And I thought I understood these brakes! Thanks to everyone and I hope I've got it right now, though reading the usual books (again) didn't exactly make it clear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 me to!! Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 In this case of the van from earlier. Would you say GWR 'Mink A's 93016 and 93045 of the SVR have the same brake gear design? Garethp8873 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2011 Gareth, Judging by the cross-shaft behind the V hanger those vans have shoe on both sides, not single sided like the one in the earlier pictures. These are most likely proper DCIII brakes, not DC1 converted to cross-corner operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 To me, those two look like opposite sides of a double sided DCIII type. Note the different handing of the pushrods and the visible hanger for the end of the handle shaft under the left end of 93045 in the second photo. Nick edit: just seen 57XX's contribution. I agree, they are most certainly not converted DCI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2011 And as on 93045 you can see it is definitely cross-cornered, it's not DCII either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 These are later vans (they have self contained buffers) and would thus have DC III brakes and are indeed seen from the two sides. 93045 has W iron tie rods (usually on fitted vehicles) though neither is fitted. 93016 has the later pattern instanter coupling. The white stripe on the solebars indicates cross cornered brakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted August 30, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hi Mark, I don't know whether these may help you, but here are some pics from my photo collection of GWR 41277 (1890) on the Severn Valley which is of a Diagram 21. Hope these are of some help to you and if you want any more photos of 41277 let me know. Garethp8873. Hi Gareth, Thankyou for posting these photographs especially of the O21 diagram 4 plank above. Usefully, I now have a number as well for this wagon. Looking at the underframe am I right in thinking a modified Ratio 10ft WB chassis would fit the bill? Thanks once again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The Ratio underframe would fit, if modified (considerable modification is required as the O21 is 16 ft long over headstocks, with 9 ft wheelbase as opposed to 17ft 6in and 10 ft). However the axleboxes are RCH pattern, not GWR, and some bear the strange initials 'SR'. The Coopercraft u/f has the advantage of being GWR prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I guess it does make sense Considering 93045 and 93016 were built 10 ten years after 11451. Again no worries Mark, as I said if you need anymore photos of 41277, I have plenty more on my flickr page or I can go down to the SVR and do some more. If you want to check up the ones on flickr, just type GWR 41277 and all my photos of it will come up. Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted August 30, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks for your replies again everyone. Think I better go back and look at my Russell's wagon book. Hmmm! Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 And get about on preserved railways to see them. The three best sites AFAIF is the SVR, G&W and Didcot, the first two will be a better range. Sorry to sound stupid but would there be any particular vehicles to look out for on the SVR or Didcot? I have took many of photos of the GWR wagons on both railways and if you could possibly give me numbers, I could put some pics up on here. Garethp8873. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Sorry to sound stupid but would there be any particular vehicles to look out for on the SVR or Didcot? Not stupid at all, Gareth. Can I suggest just trying to photograph as many different types of brakegear as you can find. If you don't know what it is just post the photo here and we'll soon let you know. After a while, you'll get to recognise them all, then you can go on to the more obscure types... Some examples from Didcot, first a P17 ballast wagon with DCIII brakes: and something a bit more complex, a Y2, vacuum fitted DCIII with clasp brakes: Maybe I should start a gallery? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted August 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2011 Any photo's of mica's especially u/f and buffer detail Cheers SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.