scottishlocos Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all I am looking for some info on crippled wagons and if they are unloaded before they are repaired I am specifically looking at coal wagons MGR HAA's and open MEA's and also ballast/spoil wagons regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 As a practice all crippled wagons should be unloaded before they are repaired Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 28, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 28, 2011 But if they can't be unloaded the repairers are left with no choice. For example one otherwise peaceful and uneventful evening back in the 1970s the 19.05 Meldon ballast was noticed to have a hot box when passing Witham but even tho' the Signalman sent 7 bells ('Stop & Examine') Blatchbridge Jcn couldn't get his boards back in time and - fortuitously as it turned out - the Meldon was stopped at Clink Road's Home Signal. By that time the bearing had disintegrated, the axlebox had vanished. the 'W' iron had mostly gone, and the axle journal was running on the bottom edge of the sideframe. The wagon (I think it was a Grampus or something of that ilk) was loaded with Meldon chippings and it and the train were clearly unable to go anywhere. So the local maintenance foreman (an ex S&D bloke as it happened with a hatred for the Western which was unmatched in anyone I have ever come across) decided to take the C&W hand crane (vintage 'GWR early post broad gauge') to site and repair the wagon there - the crane hadn't turned a wheel on the mainline since Adam was a lad and had to be stopped every half mile or so for a few extra gallons of oil to be poured onto its bearings but it made the site. A possession was (illegally) taken and the wizards got to work - the crippled wagon was partially lifted and packed, the old wheelset came out, new 'W' iron and axlebox etc were duly affixed and a new wheelset installed (which took most of the night) and the train was duly sent on its way without even bothering with taking the newly repaired wagon out at Westbury - it being more than fit to run to Salisbury and beyond. And fortuitously - as noted above - the train had stopped clear of the junction at Clink Road so trains could be, with a spot of guile in some cases, diverted via Frome. All in a night's work when railways were railways and one simple rule - if you could lift it to rerail it then it was no more difficult to lift it to repair it although it was very unusual for it to be done on a running line as it was that night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Here is a picture I took 17/5/1982 at Bristol Temple Meads. A Dogfish hopper had previously been stopped with a hot-box enroute from Meldon Quarry loaded with ballast. I can't remember if it was Bridgwater or Flax Bourton (where it would have been detected by the HABD). I was in Bristol TOPS when 47377 had been sent to recover it to Bristol East Depot after temporary repairs had been carried out to enable it to get it to Bristol, I think the axle-box would have been re-oiled or re-packed. We had a report via Bristol PSB that it was in trouble again, and here is the picture I took. attachment=121531:IMG_4671.JPG] 47377 entering Bristol Temple Meads 17/5/1982 I should have added that I don't believe it had been unloaded. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I remember being on Colchester Station in about 1980 when they still stabled parcels and newspaper stock in platforms 5 and 6, and there was a GUV with a hot box. I remember the smoke, the hissing noise emanating from the axle box and the smell of hot oil. IIRC the GUV had BR1's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Having given more thought to this I can also remember other wagons being stopped in the Bristol area, then receiving repair before being forwarded to their ultimate destination. The regular culprits were loaded clayliner/highfit wagons en-route from Cornwall to Stoke/other points north, they got put off at Flax Bourton, or Bristol Temple Meads. Some would be repaired at the lineside so to speak, but some would be allowed to travel at reduced speed to Bristol to go into Barton Hill Shops for proper repair, before forwarding to their destination. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all I am looking for some info on crippled wagons and if they are unloaded before they are repaired I am specifically looking at coal wagons MGR HAA's and open MEA's and also ballast/spoil wagons regards Dave There are (?) were two status' for crippled wagons "Green carded" - the vehicle can make one further journey only before repair. "Red carded" - the vehicle must stay put and be repaired before any further journey Back in the day "Green carded" was used as a term of reference (enderment) for members of staff that were on light duties due to injury or age etc etc........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2011 There are (?) were two status' for crippled wagons "Green carded" - the vehicle can make one further journey only before repair. "Red carded" - the vehicle must stay put and be repaired before any further journey Back in the day "Green carded" was used as a term of reference (enderment) for members of staff that were on light duties due to injury or age etc etc........ Plus Red/Green card for 'Brake Defective'. And yes, I think the use of 'Green Card was a common term for light duties staff however if you go back far enough Registered Disabled folk had a green National Insurance card so I was once told. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2011 Here is a picture I took 17/5/1982 at Bristol Temple Meads. A Dogfish hopper had previously been stopped with a hot-box enroute from Meldon Quarry loaded with ballast. I can't remember if it was Bridgwater or Flax Bourton (where it would have been detected by the HABD). I was in Bristol TOPS when 47377 had been sent to recover it to Bristol East Depot after temporary repairs had been carried out to enable it to get it to Bristol, I think the axle-box would have been re-oiled or re-packed. We had a report via Bristol PSB that it was in trouble again, and here is the picture I took. attachment=121531:IMG_4671.JPG] 47377 entering Bristol Temple Meads 17/5/1982 I should have added that I don't believe it had been unloaded. cheers Pity you don't get the sound (and smell) in a photograph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2011 Pity you don't get the sound (and smell) in a photograph. Very true - and you could always hear them before you could smell them There used to be a van train (probably 'the Malago Vans' in one of its varied lives) which picked up ex-works parvans at Swindon in mid afternoon and then ran non-stop to Old Oak and if there were any ex-works 'bad 'uns' on it they would usually start their distress cries around Hanwell Bridge and be noticeably loud by West Ealing and smoking by Longfield/Ealing Broadway. OK when West ealing 'box was still there but not so clever once it was all on Old Oak panel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2011 Very true - and you could always hear them before you could smell them There used to be a van train (probably 'the Malago Vans' in one of its varied lives) which picked up ex-works parvans at Swindon in mid afternoon and then ran non-stop to Old Oak and if there were any ex-works 'bad 'uns' on it they would usually start their distress cries around Hanwell Bridge and be noticeably loud by West Ealing and smoking by Longfield/Ealing Broadway. OK when West ealing 'box was still there but not so clever once it was all on Old Oak panel. Its amazing what you can do with DCC nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswild Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 On the subject of loaded/unloaded HAA's etc. i'm sure i remember seeing a pic ( in Rail express i think ) of a mainline liveried 58 with a 3 or 4 wagon load, washwood heath to toton (for worskop-for repair) or something like that with certainly two of the wagons still loaded, presumably if the wagon gets as far as the repair shop with a load on it stays loaded? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaglab Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 It depends on the defect of the wagon.I have seen wagons green carded for the entire journey.The general rule was that a wagon that was red cardedand was put off in the nearest siding (Yard To Yard label Affixed.From my records a lot of transhipping of wagons took place at Toton,I dont know what method tthey used but if it was by hand then there were some hefty men in Toton !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40044 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I can think of at least one wagon which has been running around around green-carded for isolated brakes for at least 12 months. It's in the middle of the train, and the rest of the train has more than enough brake force without that wagon's brakes being operative so no great harm done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 A Year as a cripple 'E' that is shocking you would have thought during the PPM & VIBT process they would have repaired the wagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaglab Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 When TOPS came in mid 70's there was greater control on crippled wagons and questions would be asked if a wagon was not put off for repairs when practable.I remember a red carded wagon running from Scunthorpe to South Wales because someone had obscured the label with a destination label. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The Red Carded wagon would flag up on the TOPS Generated train list would it not?? Saying that I know of EWS production manager who had to cover Doncaster Up Decoy one Saturday night and marsalled 12 together and tried to send them Dewsbury! He was moved on very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2014 The Red Carded wagon would flag up on the TOPS Generated train list would it not?? Saying that I know of EWS production manager who had to cover Doncaster Up Decoy one Saturday night and marsalled 12 together and tried to send them Dewsbury! He was moved on very quickly. All the cripple codes should come up on a Train List - Red cards being rather important (they should have been picked up on the Shunt Lists anyway) but also the various brake defective codes in view of their importance regarding Brake force calculation or even their fitness to go in the train at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I know they do I just find it very hard to believe that a Red Carder, made all the way from Scunthorpe to South Wales! I am supirised as you say the shunt list would have had it on along with any wagons due or over attention or any blow through wagons. I would have thought even if the card was not on the wagon C&W fitters would have been called or the wagon be detached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaglab Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Scunthorpe to South Wales wagon happened in the late 60's prior to TOPS printouts,shunt lists and computers !!! Wagons in those days often stood idle for weeks and I remember a wagon at Ebbw Vale Steelworks not being emptied for a year. When number taking stopped in 1968 and wagons were just mins etc things went a bit crazy until TOPS came in from 1973 when it sorted things out and got rid of a lot of wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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