Combe Martin Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 One of my friends that's been contributing to the Armstrong tenders thread has suggested I start a new topic because I added the following today. I'd be interested to know if anyone else here has tried this conversion. ........................................................................................................................................................................................... Its just occurred to me that there's at least 3 of us here at the moment all trying to produce a 'better' 4F for use on an S&D layout now. Now, I'm not quite as adventurous as to attempt an etched brass kit at the moment, what I am doing is improving an old Airfix 4F that never ran properly by fitting it with Comet loco drive and tender chassis. I started with the tender chassis thinking that wouldn't be too difficult, which it wasn't (a useful learning curve), though there was quite a bit of carving to do to the plastic tender frame to make it fit onto the chassis, then you have to attach some 'fixings' to the plastic frame so it and the chassis can be held together with screws. You also need a bit of weight in there too. I've carved off the moulded plastic handrails from the tender body, fitted wire ones and I'm quite pleased with the result. Standing it next to the tender of the Bachmann S&D 7F, the dimensions look about right, though the shape of some of the details isn't quite the same, it's not a million miles out !. It's going to be either 44422 or 44417 (the loco body is left hand drive). Now I have to start on the loco chassis, thats a different 'kettle of fish' ! ............................................................................................................................................................................................. Well having written that, its worth adding that because the Airfix (and the current Hornby) 4F body is left hand drive this means that it has the reversing lever and injectors on the left hand side too, and the lubricators on the right hand side. I didn't want to have to move these or make new ones for the opposite side, so thats why I decided to stick with modelling a left hand drive loco. Also to be strictly accurate, the boiler backhead (the bit in the cab with all the controls) would have to be changed too, though this is less visible. Both 44417 and 44422 were very long term S&D left hand drive residents which is why I've picked them. Photos suggest 44417 had tender coal rails (well it did in 1961) and 44422 didn't, so 44422 may be the easiest to make. At the moment, my thoughts about loco body modifications are to replace all the moulded plastic handrails with wire ones, and also to add those handrails/grabs that are missing. I'm not too impressed with the injector bits either. Hmmm .... Does anyone have any other suggestions for body modifications ? I suppose someone will tell me the chimneys wrong ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted September 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2011 I seam to remember it was the spashers that were the worst offending item being the wrong size, although someone may have other evidence that is not the case. Have you seen Tim Shakletons book on detailing plastic locomotives. He did a 4f and changed the chimney, ejector, injectors and added detail in the cab. He also said of the body that the tops of the cab side sheets were cut short for the oversize handrail and replaced that regards Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Have you seen Tim Shakletons book on detailing plastic locomotives. He did a 4f and changed the chimney, ejector, injectors and added detail in the cab. He also said of the body that the tops of the cab side sheets were cut short for the oversize handrail and replaced that I might have done, but don't have it and can't recall it. Do you know what it's title is, sounds like it may be worth ordering if I can find it online somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted September 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2011 It's by "Wild Swan"... and title "Plastic Bodied Locos" by of course Keith Shakleton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Found it, and I've ordered a S/H one off ABEbooks. Oh, and its Tim Shakleton not Keith, he was an artist who went to the South Pole ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted September 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2011 fingers engaged before brain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Nevard Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 As already mentioned, it's the splashers that are the most offending thing - but it's too far down the road with mine and I've other things I'd rather be worrying about.... Here's my 44417 (every 4mm scale BR/SDJR layout has a 44417 or 44422 of course!) from an LMS liveried one I bought in 1981. A couple of years ago I gave it a cosmetic refurbishment and Phil Hall built me a Comet loco and tender chassis for it. And, yup it should have tender rails, but by excuse is that the tender is on loan from another engine! nevard_091201_catcott_44417_IMG_6062c_web by nevardmedia, on Flickr nevard_101022_combwich_4f_IMG_8152_web by nevardmedia, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 You need to get hold of Model Rail issue number 37 (September 2001) for the article by Rob Kinsey (the electrical/electronics wizard of Wolverhampton MRC) on the 4F improvement. But don't get drawn into the near hysteria about the splashers, they stand higher by just 1.5mm above the running plate, than scale, to accomodate the old original Airfix wheels,as they aint as bad as some try to make out. I have 12 (mad, I know) Airfix/Hornby 4F Comet conversions, 4 of which are converted to early r/h drive including 44557 & 44560. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted September 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2011 I used the Airfix body, Comet chassis and Alan Gibson tender when I did my 44422 in OO. Runs very nicely, the Comet chassis is a good option. Although I've acquired a Brassmasters kit to be built in P4, it is quite likely that I will end up doing another Airfix body, this time with a Perseverence chassis and an as-yet to be obtained tender kit (possibly Comet if I can't get another Gibson one). Like Chris, I'm not hung up about the splashers - nice to get it right, but I wouldn't underestimate the effort required to remove the plastic moulded ones and replace them with scale sized versions, and to get that looking as neat as the original body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 On my way to the Town Museum in Blandford today, to do another stint on the door, I picked up a copy of the current issue of Steam World, and in it Bob Essery has started a series of articles devoted to the 4F's - just thought I'd mention it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Thanks. Some good points here. I did mine with a Kemilway chassis (loco and chassis) years ago. I've decided to give it a bit of a tarting up and I just got a sound decoder. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Can't say I have come across the near hysteria about the splashers. 1½mm (4 inches) isnt just too high, it is across the whole diameter making it roughly 8 inches across the base, and it is plain to see. Complacency probably accounts for the fact that this dismal 33 year old model has never been upgraded and is still representative of the 772-strong standard goods loco of the LMS. Take a look at the horizontal row of rivets on the smokebox above the frames, which are in line with the top of the leading splashers, then see what happens on the model. Photo by R H G Simpson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Has anyone fixed the splasher issue? It looks to me like a pretty big job. BTW MR 37 is Nov 2001. If you ask nicely the man at Brassmasters will sell you a pack of castings from the 4F kit. It has a backhead, two chimneys and two domes amongst other things. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 If one wants a scale model of a 4F, then its as the Irish man said, "If I were going there, I would be starting from here". The washout plugs are too high. The sandbox slot in the firebox lagging is to tall. Splashers are too large a diameter. Handrail knobs are gross. Tender is a characature. Needs a new loco chassis. By the time one has built the chassis (the hard part in other words), one may as well splash out on a decent superstructure and tender. This would presumably give the variants such as beaded or pressed splashers, short or tall MR chimneys, LH or RH drive and so forth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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