User control of individual sound volumes in Loksound v4 chip

[legomanbiffo]

I revisited this challenge tonight and got it to work. The procedure below

allows the user to control the volume of any sound slot without the use of a

lokprogrammer (eg if you think the guard's whistle is too loud you can turn it

down without affecting any other sound).

 

This information is given in good faith. Please read everything before you attempt it. I do not accept responsibility if you duff your chip up :-)

 

First of all you must set two indexing CV's as follows;

 

Set CV31 to 16

 

Set CV32 to 1

 

Once you've done that, the volume control for sound slot 1 (normally the engine

sound) is CV259, slot 2 is CV267, slot 3 is CV275 and so on (add 8 each time all

the way up to sound slot 24 which is CV443. Random sounds are CV451 and brake

sounds are CV459).

 

You can set values from 0 (minimum volume) up to 128 (maximum).

 

Before you attempt this there are a few things you should be aware of;

 

1. If you don't check / set CV31 & 32 as stated before you start you will affect

other functions which will have unintended consequences. CV259, for example

controls multiple things depending upon what values are set in CV's 31 & 32. Set CV31 & 32 as stated, then make a note of all the volume values (CV259, 267 etc) before

you start.

 

2. Sound slot 1 may not match up with F1, it depends on how they have been set

up by the programmer.

 

3. Some DCC controllers may not be able to set CV's above 255. My Lenz 90 which hasn't had the firmware upgrade can't.

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bif

[pauliebanger]

Bif,

 

Good work uncovering this.

 

Just trying to understand how this works, and the extent to which a user without a lokprogrammer can customise a sound project.

 

You use the indexing CVs as described, then the appropriate 'Slot' CV, 259, 275 etc., to select the sound for which you wish to alter the volume, setting 0-128. Do you hear the sound and the effect your volume selection has in real time? ie can you audition the changes as they are made? How do you know what sound is in the slot you have selected?

 

Is it possible to reassign sounds to F keys other than those set by the author in the original project?

 

Random sounds are addressed by CV 451. Are all random sounds altered together, or can each be changed independently? Is it possible to change the start frequency or duration of each random sound?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

Just trying to understand how this works, and the extent to which a user without a lokprogrammer can customise a sound project.

 

Customisation through CV values looks to be similar to that offered by Zimo. (similar, not identical, I expect there are some features one maker will do which the other will not).

But there is a significant amount of untangling the documentation to make it understandable.

Process of making changes is very different; Zimo have the pseudo-programmer to make potentially complex changes, whereas ESU have CV numbers.

 

The JMRI files for LokSound 4.0 have most of the main features working.

 

You use the indexing CVs as described, then the appropriate 'Slot' CV, 259, 275 etc., to select the sound for which you wish to alter the volume, setting 0-128. Do you hear the sound and the effect your volume selection has in real time? ie can you audition the changes as they are made?

 

Should work. The LokSound supports Ops-mode programming.

 

One issue with indexed CV's is the complexity for those who set values through handsets; two or three ops-mode writes to conduct for each change. Computer support (eg. JMRI) or fancy control systems with direct support for the decoders (ECoS) become much more important than single CV changes.

 

How do you know what sound is in the slot you have selected?

 

You don't, unless you either have the list from the sound project author or experiment with each in turn to find out what it is.

 

Is it possible to reassign sounds to F keys other than those set by the author in the original project?

 

Yes. Pages 47-48 of the decoder manual. Process is similar to Sound Volume.

 

 

Random sounds are addressed by CV 451. Are all random sounds altered together, or can each be changed independently?

 

Not clear how this will work in practise, but it appears to be a single volume level for all random sounds. But many (all) of these also appear in slots so have a volume control on the slot.

 

Is it possible to change the start frequency or duration of each random sound?

 

Appears to be one value (CV) for all random sounds.

 

 

The LokSound decoder manual may have gaps in it. I've heard reports that an ESU ECoS appears to offer settings through CV value changes which are not apparent in the decoder documentation (I need to go an play with an ECoS to see this). So, there may be more settings to come out of the woodwork.

 

 

- Nigel

[legomanbiffo]

Paul,

 

Nigel has correctly covered most of your questions. I am certain that you would be able to audition the sounds on the fly but my controller won't access the higher CV's so I can't confirm that. I can certainly change the master volume CV63 on the fly.

 

The Loksound has a dedicated sound slot (flowchart) for random sounds. This can contain multiple random sounds which you can group into ones which only occur at idle and others which only occur when moving. There is only one volume control asociated with this sound slot, but there is nothing to stop you using other sound slots for sounds which you can make random and there are plenty of spare sound slots (24, + 3 dedicated ones, 27 in total!).

 

It's early days yet but I'm going to design in as much user control as possible when constructing projects.

 

Bif

[Nigelcliffe]

I am certain that you would be able to audition the sounds on the fly but my controller won't access the higher CV's so I can't confirm that. I can certainly change the master volume CV63 on the fly.

 

 

Bif

 

Panto time: "oh yes you can !!!"...

 

Page 31/32 of the ESU Decoder manual, how to off-set high number CV values using the temporary store values in CV's 96 to 99. The illustration is for a Roco Multimaus system, but will work for anything with limits on CV ranges.

Its long winded, when combined with the index CV's it's looking like 6 CV writes to achive one CV change. You'd probably only use the method if really stuck or to prove a point.

 

What hardware are you using, and do you have a computer interface for it ?

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

legomanbiffo, on 13 September 2011 - 12:18 , said:

 

Paul,

 

Nigel has correctly covered most of your questions. I am certain that you would be able to audition the sounds on the fly but my controller won't access the higher CV's so I can't confirm that. I can certainly change the master volume CV63 on the fly.

 

The Loksound has a dedicated sound slot (flowchart) for random sounds. This can contain multiple random sounds which you can group into ones which only occur at idle and others which only occur when moving. There is only one volume control asociated with this sound slot, but there is nothing to stop you using other sound slots for sounds which you can make random and there are plenty of spare sound slots (24, + 3 dedicated ones, 27 in total!).

 

It's early days yet but I'm going to design in as much user control as possible when constructing projects.

 

Bif

 

 

Bif,

 

Still trying to understand the purpose of 'sound slots'. With Zimo, apart from driving sounds, everything else is just banged in and then you can make them do whatever you wish.

 

This means it is sometimes easier to make adjustments after programming ('cause you can hear the changes) and read back the CV changes to the original project.

 

Presumably, you could take the same approach with Lok V4? But there seems a lot of faffing around with CVs to get the changes, so it may not make sense to do this in practice.

 

Life's one long learing curve- and then you die!

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

With Zimo, apart from driving sounds, everything else is just banged in and then you can make them do whatever you wish.

 

This means it is sometimes easier to make adjustments after programming ('cause you can hear the changes) and read back the CV changes to the original project.

 

Presumably, you could take the same approach with Lok V4? But there seems a lot of faffing around with CVs to get the changes, so it may not make sense to do this in practice.

Ops Programming is an essential feature of setting up a sound decoder - period. The only place you know what sounds best is on the layout, and that is where you should be able to set it up, with the loco in motion. If ESU have still not grasped that simple fact, they are truly missing the point.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Ops Programming is an essential feature of setting up a sound decoder - period. The only place you know what sounds best is on the layout, and that is where you should be able to set it up, with the loco in motion. If ESU have still not grasped that simple fact, they are truly missing the point.

 

There is a decoder test facility on the V3.5 programmer which enables you to run the loco on a programming track and listen to the project on the run. I normally use a rolling road. it is best to set up any decoder and test it on the programming track before applying track power. Saves a lot of expensive magic smoke.

 

I assume that the V4 programmer also has this facility.

 

The only sound decoder I know of that runs outside the loco and can replace sounds one at a time without reloading the complete project, is Digitrax.

[Oldddudders]

You obviously regard buying a programer (£160-ish?) as a reasonable expense. I do not. Every DCC system worth the name comes with one built in, via the ability to alter CVs. The newcomer to UK sound, having lashed out over £100 on his first decoder, does not then want to be told he cannot alter sound levels without the additional expense of proprietary kit from ESU, surely?

 

Programming tracks should famously not be near the layout, and do not need to be much more than a foot long - they are not for running trains.

[legomanbiffo]

Nigel; I hadn't spotted that. I've got my Lokprogrammer so I probably won't use that method but thanks for letting me know.

 

Old Dudders: Perhaps you should read the original post again. It tells you how to change individual volume levels by changing CV's. That was the whole point of the thread, the clue is in the title. You don't need a lokprogrammer to do it.

 

David: There is no such thing as a v4 lokprogrammer, just a lokprogrammer. If you can program existing (v3.5) chips with yours, you can program v4's. I didn't upgrade mine when I started programming v4's. Use v2.7.9 software when programming v3.5's and the latest version (presently v4.2.0) for v4's. They can exist happily side by side on one machine.

 

Paul: Sound slot = flowchart. You can create up to 24 of them and play up to 8 at once. It's normal to use one for the engine sounds and a number of the others for horns, compressors etc but there are no restrictions. In my 73 project I plan to use one for the diesel drive sounds and one for the electric drive sounds. You could put the engine sounds of a good loco into one slot and the sounds of a rusty old knackered one in another and take your pick (you could start one with F1 or the other with F2). My lateral thinking head is already working overtime.

 

Bif

[slipstream]

I revisited this challenge tonight and got it to work. The procedure belowallows the user to control the volume of any sound slot without the use of alokprogrammer (eg if you think the guard's whistle is too loud you can turn itdown without affecting any other sound). This information is given in good faith. Please read everything before you attempt it. I do not accept responsibility if you duff your chip up :-)First of all you must set two indexing CV's as follows;Set CV31 to 16Set CV32 to 1Once you've done that, the volume control for sound slot 1 (normally the enginesound) is CV259, slot 2 is CV267, slot 3 is CV275 and so on (add 8 each time allthe way up to sound slot 24 which is CV443. Random sounds are CV451 and brakesounds are CV459).You can set values from 0 (minimum volume) up to 128 (maximum).Before you attempt this there are a few things you should be aware of;1. If you don't check / set CV31 & 32 as stated before you start you will affectother functions which will have unintended consequences. CV259, for examplecontrols multiple things depending upon what values are set in CV's 31 & 32. Set CV31 & 32 as stated, then make a note of all the volume values (CV259, 267 etc) beforeyou start.2. Sound slot 1 may not match up with F1, it depends on how they have been setup by the programmer. 3. Some DCC controllers may not be able to set CV's above 255. My Lenz 90 which hasn't had the firmware upgrade can't. Hope this helps,Bif

Would it not make sense that owners are given the CV sound slot information along with the function key list? Then we'd all be able to adjust individual sounds without guessing. Just a thought.

[legomanbiffo]

That's a reasonable suggestion. The vast majority of my sound slots are numbered the same as the function key they are mapped to. If you're not sure though, just make a note of any value before changing it.

[slipstream]

Understood Bif, it was more the sounds not mapped, ie engine sounds. But your tutorial above is very helpful. 

[MiDAS]

Would it not make sense that owners are given the CV sound slot information along with the function key list? Then we'd all be able to adjust individual sounds without guessing. Just a thought.

 

Olivias Trains have given sound slot and info on how to alter each individual sound for some time. South West digital include which sound slots are used in their information

[tarifa]

The V4 decoder manual lists the relevant CV for each sound slot so it should be straight forward to access and adjust the sound slot volumes.  Both Bif and Nigel have simplified the manual in explaining how to adjust the volume of each slot.  Before changing any values it is worth keeping a record of the old and new settings.  SWD provide a dummy sheet to do the same thing.  The slots can be reallocated to any F button achieved through function mapping.  A long task with a dcc throttle (read and write system preferred) that's why I use the lokprogrammer.  If you screw it up do a decoder reset and start again.  The Zimo software, to my mind, is not as complicated as ESU regarding function mapping.

[slipstream]

Olivias Trains have given sound slot and info on how to alter each individual sound for some time. South West digital include which sound slots are used in their information

Yes. thank you, I just found that info on their website.

 

F1 = CV 259 (Drive) I assume that this contains all of the sound files that you here from idle through to max speed??

 

Olivias state 'always change CV 32 = 1 before editing. Revert back to CV = 0 after editing.'

 

Biff states, however, 'Set CV 31 to 16 and CV 32 to 1 before editing. 

 

Which one is correct?

[pauliebanger]

Yes. thank you, I just found that info on their website.

 

F1 = CV 259 (Drive) I assume that this contains all of the sound files that you here from idle through to max speed??

 

Olivias state 'always change CV 32 = 1 before editing. Revert back to CV = 0 after editing.'

 

Biff states, however, 'Set CV 31 to 16 and CV 32 to 1 before editing. 

 

Which one is correct?

 

Who do you think? Lol

 

Olivia's, to be fair,probably relates to their projects specifically and assumes CV31 = 16 to be the default position. (But this will not always be the case, depends on supplier).

 

Bif has given the 'full' requirements applicable to any sound project on Lok V4.0. 

 

The point is, CV31 MUST = 16, and CV32 MUST = 1 before programming.

 

What you actually need to do in any specific case depends on what they are set at already, vso if they are set at 16 and 1 respectively already, there's no need to change anything before programming.

 

But this means that you will have to read these CVs first anyway in order to decide.

 

Therefore, the most straightforward, and always correct, method is to write 16 to CV31 and 1 to CV32 before programming. This way, you will always be safe.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[tender]

Not sure if this is a good place for this but.........

I have a number of Zimo and Loksound steam locos. In all the Zimo projects when the throttle is reduced by one the chuffing stops and the loco coasts (or clanks) for a few seconds. By slowly reducing the throttle the loco can be made to coast (or clank) to a standstill. With the Loksound projects the locos chuff all the way down to a standstill (yuck). The only way to stop them chuffing is to run them fast and then set the speed to 0. Not realistic on a 10ft BLT layout. Its this an inability of the Loksouind, bad project, or is there a CV i can adjust to make it behave like the Zimo.

Ray.

[slipstream]

The reason I ask is that CV 32 has a range of either 0 2 or 3 with 0 as the default. According to the manual.

[slipstream]

Not sure if this is a good place for this but.........

I have a number of Zimo and Loksound steam locos. In all the Zimo projects when the throttle is reduced by one the chuffing stops and the loco coasts (or clanks) for a few seconds. By slowly reducing the throttle the loco can be made to coast (or clank) to a standstill. With the Loksound projects the locos chuff all the way down to a standstill (yuck). The only way to stop them chuffing is to run them fast and then set the speed to 0. Not realistic on a 10ft BLT layout. Its this an inability of the Loksouind, bad project, or is there a CV i can adjust to make it behave like the Zimo.

Ray.

Take a look at CV57 and 58 below. That might help you. Scroll to bottom of the manual to the list of supported CV's.

 

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/sound_decoder.pdf

[pauliebanger]

CV 32 ...... 0 as the default. According to the manual.

 

Then Bif's explanation is the correct one, is it not?

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

Take a look at CV57 and 58 below. That might help you.

 

 

 

How?

[slipstream]

CV 32 to 1. 1 does not exist as an option. Only 0 2 or 3.

 

Excuse above. Was reading manual for 3.5

[tarifa]

CV 32 to 1. 1 does not exist as an option. Only 0 2 or 3.

CV32 = 1 is an index selection not a setting.

 

Mike

[slipstream]

Yes thanks Mike. I have successfully turned down certain sounds and up others to make it just right for my layout. Thanks Bif for the instruction, and thanks Olivia's for the CV values.