Hornby's Future Is Cheap Toys ...

[The Stationmaster]

The share price graph is interesting - although the price has recovered from a severe dip in the early/mid summer the overall trend this year has basically been downwards. But the Mid Price today gained 1p - albeit on the basis of one (buying) trade. So there might perhaps have been something of a 'it's going according to plan and the future is still rosy after the Olympics' element in the timing of this article and the interview which led to it

[deltic56]

As stated Hornby own Corgi so the new vehicle "toy" range is a logical move. Why pay Oxford Die-cast for the Skaledale range when Hornby can make it themselves?

[Guest Max Stafford]

 

Of course, but in the past, Airfix never released for example, items directly related to 'las Malvinas', the troubles in NI in the early 70s whilst the conflicts were ongoing - this Afganistan announcement IMO just scrapes the barrel. Libya, Iraq next ?...dilbert

 

I don't know - the Vulcan came out about eighteen months after the conflict with an Op. 'Black Buck' decal option. Their then partner Heller released a Super Etendard about the same time and in early 1991, a 'Gulf War' set of fast jets was released right after the conflict.

 

dave.

[DavidH]

Perhaps you are right and he would shrug this off too. ...

 

Except doesn't the comment by Gwiwer do much the same thing that the journalist in the original piece did - report someone's facial expression/gesture, and in so doing assign it possibly far more importance than it needs. Mr Martin may have smiled at the question, because he hears it all the time and his smile patronised the reporter, not the customers; Mr Kohler shrugs his shoulder because he's heard that question a dozen times in the last hour and for one brief moment maybe couldn't be bothered to get drawn into the same discussion.

 

I reckon you need more to go on than one gesture, one smile or a single quote to find out the person's real attitude.

[S.A.C Martin]

You know what really bothers me? Hornby are, if the article is correct, supremely interested in the toy market; yet utterly fail at self promotion and development of a range that is a guaranteed seller, and is also a multi-multi million pound money spinner year on year with new toys, dvds, episodes and specials which sell out very quickly.

 

You'd think Hornby - wanting to do well in the toy market - would invest more in the no.1 children's brand worldwide...?

 

They price themselves out of the market year on year, and give further ground to Bachmann who produce vastly superior toys for the same brand.

 

Anyone who guesses this first off is a really useful engine...!!!

 

...and yet, whilst giving so much ground away on the brand that they had a 20 year head start on, they are at the same time attempting to develop another range of toys based on a TV program which hasn't even aired in the UK yet...! Which is the better business bet - the untried and untested quantity or the proven formula?

[AngusDe]

 

Maybe they could re-brand it VEP magazine......

 

 

Or maybe Model Railway Constructor?.....

 

Angus

[t-b-g]

Well, I haven't bought a Hornby product for years! So I am not helping their profit margins.

 

I gave up trying to compete with their excellent products (Bachmann's too) and started modelling the pregrouping period. Now, if I want a loco, I build it, either from a small range of available kits of varying quality or from scratch. When I run any of my layouts, there might be an odd RTR wagon or two but pretty much everything else is kit or scratchbuilt.

 

Perhaps, if Hornby pulled back on their involvement in high end RTR gear, it might encourage one or more people to have a go at making things, instead of buying them. I can assure anybody that I get much more satisfaction in building even a basic handbuilt model than I ever did purchasing a superb RTR model.

 

As a non modeller I know once said of a superb commercially produced item "It is very nice but it isn't model making!"

 

So if the announcement and/or the reporting of it turn out to be correct (which I doubt very much with modern reporting standards) it won't bother me in the slightest! As long as I can still obtain sheets of plastic and metal and a few castings and bits, I am happy!

[wombatofludham]

Mmm, a number of thoughts:

 

Hornby diversified into all sorts of toys in the 1980s and laid an egg. Then they had that John Harvey Jones egotist witter on about diversifying into toys on some nonsense BBC programme, which they promptly ignored and went instead into upgrading and concentrating mainly on their railway brand, and turned the company round. It always amazes me that managing directors or whatever trendy name they call themselves now seem to be unable to read history yet get paid loads of money for re-inventing the same mistakes. Ho hum.

 

Secondly, I don't think the model railway sector is in decline. Yes, there's a "bulge" in the 40-50 age group - but there is in society thanks to the post war baby boom. Whenever I've been to model shows there are many, many young enthusiats there, railway enthusiasm is still popular, and Train Simulation has failed to knock modelling off the agenda. Indeed, wtih DCC, sound, lighting, working accessories and yes, better quality models that actually look like what they are supposed to be (generally) the "computer generation" have more to interest them. I really think that railway modelling will go on and attract a younger generation - although perhaps not Hornby's pro-steam bias.

 

Thirdly, one thing that business, advertisers and marketing wonks don't seem to have cottoned onto yet is the fact that it is widely believed by sociologists that the next generation will be the first one to see a decline in living standards relative to their parents. Graduates will be landed with a £30-40,000 debt before they can even get a job. Other younger people will either be unable to afford a house or be spending a far greater proportion of their disposable income on housing costs. Their pension provision will be more expensive. Sadly for the up-coming generation, their parents (the 40+ age group) have had the benefit of free education, bought houses when they were cheap and have already got a nice pension sorted, so they are the only ones likely to have anything like a disposable income, which might explain why auctions of rare and collectable models are bucking the recessionary trend. Advertisers, business analysts and media types are currently obsessed with the 18-30 age group's money and spending - but there is every likelihood this will dry up very soon and if Hornby are going for cheaper impulse buy toys and begin to neglect the "adult collector" they may soon find their market is so broke they can't even afford pocket money gimmicks.

 

Frinally though, with Bachmann, Dapol and to an extent Heljan (and shop commissioned specials) seemingly happy to cater for model railways and seemingly seeing the future as being one of modest growth over time, if Hornby lay yet another toy-shaped egg and diversify into stuff that doesn't sell (again) I don't actually think their loss would be so damaging to the hobby as it would have been say in the 80s or even the 90s. It would be sad, and missed by some, but I'm sure the slack would be taken up by others who can see the wood for the nickel plated key rings..

[trisonic]

I can't add any more (even as a D.A.) perhaps we should all wish Mr. Frank Martin a happy retirement and may he sail off into the Sunset................... like, now. Heh, heh. :clapping_mini:

[darren01]

Hi

It’s funny this, but I have suspected for a number of years that Hornby where heading this way, if you look at the releases over the last few years they have got smaller and smaller.

I don’t think they will pull out completely of the model railway market, but will just do small runs at very high prices, thus keeping their finger in the pie.

I was talking to a few of my other railway friend and we agreed that Hornby dropped the ball a few years ago and lost their core market.

And when they earlier this year whacked up their price to silly levels that did not help them at all it just got a lot of back up.

I think Hornby are making a real mistake with this one going into the cheap toy market, yes it may bring money in the short team, reason for this is, how many time have poor parents had to pay over the top price for the latest fad the kids are into and three month later, you find the same toy in a charity shop for 20p!.

[D605Eagle]

I'm sure this isn't the message Frank Martin wanted to convey.

 

It is typical lazy journalism, using broad brush insults to attack a minority that would be ignored if we even tried to reply.

Why is it accepted that railway enthusts can be ridiculed and vilified?

 

Why not aircraft enthusasts, or old women who collect plates with pictures of cats on them, or real nerds who stay glued to friendface or Twibberish on their iPhones and blackberries, rather than having a real life.

 

The article is full of the usual tiresome puns (If you look through related articles, the same wearisome headline 'joke' is used twice more...) that seem to infect any potentially serious article about the hobby in the mainstream press - at least they haven't used "Choo-Choose" yet - which the local paper did to me, in the business section, much to my aggravation.

 

Its not big, its not clever and it certainly isn't funny - If Mr Martin wanted the Telegraph to perform a hatchet job on his reputation to his core customers, then it's a job well done.

 

But this article has done him, and Hornby, no favours at all.

To be honest, by the quality (or lack of) and the tone of the article I thought I was reading the NOTW, not the torygraph. How the mighty have sunk! Have they empolyed all the ex NOTW journo's since it went tits up or something?

[D605Eagle]

 

 

Perhaps, if Hornby pulled back on their involvement in high end RTR gear, it might encourage one or more people to have a go at making things, instead of buying them. I can assure anybody that I get much more satisfaction in building even a basic handbuilt model than I ever did purchasing a superb RTR model.

 

As a non modeller I know once said of a superb commercially produced item "It is very nice but it isn't model making!"

 

So if the announcement and/or the reporting of it turn out to be correct (which I doubt very much with modern reporting standards) it won't bother me in the slightest! As long as I can still obtain sheets of plastic and metal and a few castings and bits, I am happy!

Well thats absolutely smashing if you have the skills and times to do such things, but theres many of us out there who don't have the ability to make super fantastic models or the time for that matter. I have built a couple of models, but compared to even railroad standards, they are rubbish.

[robmcg]

Well thats absolutely smashing if you have the skills and times to do such things, but theres many of us out there who don't have the ability to make super fantastic models or the time for that matter. I have built a couple of models, but compared to even railroad standards, they are rubbish.

 

I too have made a couple of models in my time, well, more than a couple, and they were Kitmaster and Airfix BR steam-era models. These might be described as pretty poor by today's standards of RTR detail, but they were satifying to build. Sometimes quite disastrously difficult for a 12y-old! I enjoyed them overall and was quite skilled by the age of 15 or so, but the pleasure can still be 'had' with modern RTR., whether by detailing or repair.

 

Kitsets, scratch-modelling, or RTR all have a place. None exclude another.

 

Case in point; I have to rebuild the valve gear assembly of a weathered Hornby Std. Class 4MT 75070 after the valve gear retaining casting? in the driver's side fractured. Hornby replaced it without cost. This is as fiddly as anything I did with Kitmaster! And there is nothing to stop me from other changes to the model, be it EM gauging or finer wheel profiles, both of which are a bit beyond my skills. It makes the Kitmaster era seem very simple!

 

Many contributors here point out that they enjoy weathering, or historical accuracy, or lineside structures, or any other aspect of modelling, and we are certainly no poorer for having very fine RTR models at lowish prices at the moment.

 

edit; just added a Kitmaster model from those days, just to compare with modern RTR. I thought it was quite good at the time!

 

In any event, Hornby can sell as many toys as it can, and hopefully will still find sufficient buyers for its excellent current RTR highly detailed models.

 

Rob

[Oscale]

Maybe in these days of financial constriction on modellers' budgets a few more "cheap toys", as opposed to ridiculously expensive toys, would be welcomed. Then railway modellers could do some modelling and add the details or make alterations themselves.

 

Collectors of railway models, on the other hand, would lose out.

 

A cheap and reliable mechanism with an iffy body riding on it is a much better starting point than a finely detailed body which falls apart as soon as you pick it up to find out why it's not running.

 

Describing Hornby's potential and actual customers as "nerds" is unlikely to do the company's image any good. Other newspapers are available.

[Bernard Lamb]

Hornby's case has not been helped by this article, but from where I stand they do seem to have lost their way in the last few years.

Accurate scale models and collectables or cheap toys?

Past experience points to them falling between the two.

How profitable are the European companies?

You do not hear much about some of them.

Put the prices up on new models to test the water and hastily retreat when the punters won't cough up.

Was the A3 an expensive failure?

All versions are catered for in the tooling but some do not sell at all well.

These are the ones I pick up some months later.

Live steam?

No comment.

How can you introduce cheap toys when you have 150 people to pay in Margate?

It will take time to get rid of them.

I hope he has a better sense of direction when sailing his boat.

Bernard

[7013]

Only just read through the comments to date on this one and I tend to agree with Darren 01, Hornby appear to have reduced their volume of new locos and delivery times are now similar to Bachmanns.That said the quality of the new models (Castle, 28XX,L1 etc) has been excellent. I agree they are no longer the market leaders and have done themselves no favours with their pricing. With retailers now getting into the commissioning game ( I note that Hornby do not make any of the recently commissioned models) Hornbys position is coming under increasing threat.

Andy Y posed questioed as to whether the hobby could suvive without Hornby? well I believe it could, I do not think we are anywher near that scenario but they will have to up their game if they want to maintain a loyal customer base. Hornby have had ample opportunity to come up with some good sellers (LNER small locos and GWR heavy tank engines to name two) but they seem reluctant to take the plunge.

In his recent review of the Hornby Tornado Pat Hammond made this observation

It would appear from coding on the boxes that, although the models were made in China, they are not a product of Sanda Kan. Is this the first major model (with the exception of Skaledale and Liddle End) to come from a different manufacturer since production moved to China and can we expect further diversification of the production of Hornby models in the future?

Food for thought?

[steven156]

Having had a good read of the article a few times a few things jar at me;

As both a model railway and model bus collector it is very disapointing how Hornby and Corgi has I feel have bottomed out in detail and quality.

 

The move of Corgi into the pocket money market is slightly worrying, what will this mean for the Original Omnibus range as looking at the model buses Corgi turn out these days and the ones their rivals Creative Master Northcord can be disapointing. CMN's quality knocks spots off Corgi's buses, in finish, in detail, accuracy and the fact that CMN constantly update their toolings. CMN's latest Lothian Buses releases are truly amazing models- the Lothian Buses Volvo Olympian releases all feature the cash vault, ticket printer, wayfarer ticket machine, the correct drivers protection screen/door (or as we used to call them "bandit screens") and even have the "welcome aboard" sticker printed on the drivers protection screen/door. Meanwhile Corgi's most recent Lothian Buses Eclipse release which is a newer tooling have absolutely none of this detail whatsoever. Its just another release of the standard Eclipse model-no more and no less.

 

It is arguably the same with releases of the recent multiple units Hornby have been releasing. While they were good, there was much better out there that was produced BEFORE the Hornby model. Bachmann's recent output has been really good, the MPV, Nuclear Flasks, Class 150, the Third Rail emus and Class 70's have again ratcheted up the standards. How Hornby can produce a 423 to a lesser standard to Bachmann's similar earlier model still astounds me.

 

 

If you go into Tesco they already have quite a decent sized area with what Hornby/Corgi are proposing- toy cars, vehicles etc and a lot of them are Tesco's own brand. On a recent visit to Ayr to go to the model railway show, after the show and meeting my sister we browsed some of the shops- Poundland has a fairly large range of toy cars/vehicles/fire engines and the like. Even the newsagent in front of the station in the front window had a veritable selection of toy vehicles. These were dirt cheap and probably produced on a shoestring. So it asks me the question how a large corporation like Corgi would be able to compete on this playing field with all the lumbering producton, distribution expenses etc. And then it struck me- having the Corgi and Hornby name on these items would differentiate these products from the similar cheap toys, afterall who would be buying these products for the kids- the parents and they would recognise either Hornby/Corgi name- clever eh?

[mow]

This short video clip is also on The Telegraph website.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financevideo/8769139/Hornby-past-present-and-future.html

[spamcan61]

Maybe in these days of financial constriction on modellers' budgets a few more "cheap toys", as opposed to ridiculously expensive toys, would be welcomed. Then railway modellers could do some modelling and add the details or make alterations themselves.

 

 

That's the Railroad range, surely. Better quality than many of their 'top notch' models 10 - 15 years ago and cheaper in real terms.

 

I suspect the Tornado was an experiment to see if a model that was better than Railroad but not as detailed as the L1 etc. would sell well; that is probably the shape of the future. I can't see Hornby withdrawing from model railways, just backing off the (time consuming to apply) fine detail a bit.

[t-b-g]

Well thats absolutely smashing if you have the skills and times to do such things, but theres many of us out there who don't have the ability to make super fantastic models or the time for that matter. I have built a couple of models, but compared to even railroad standards, they are rubbish.

 

My first models were rubbish too. I still got more pleasure from making them than I ever did opening a box. I stuck at it and practiced and I can turn out acceptable quality work now. I have seen brilliant models, built by people with fingers like pork sausages, who would look more at home in a blacksmiths forge than they do turning out finescale models. Skills can be learned by the vast majority of people if they really want to master them.

 

It isn't quick and perhaps it needs sights on things like size of projects adjusting but, to me, it is ultimately highly satisfying.

 

I wasn't suggesting for one moment that Hornby's announcement would instantly make everybody into top rate scratchbuilders, I just suggested that if it pursuaded one or two to have a go it wasn't all bad! In the 60s and 70s and beyond, many a magazine article said "I started out with Hornby then I started making things" Now it seems that having the latest Hornby product is the pinnacle of modelling acheivement for some. Full marks to Hornby for that huge swing in modelling aspirations but it isn't what my hobby is all about. Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against folk who like to be able to buy and run their models and I have some good friends who do just that. I am just saying that it isn't for me.

[10800]

This short video clip is also on The Telegraph website.

 

http://www.telegraph...and-future.html

 

Someone else who can't pronounce Scalextric. Is it so difficult?

[JeremyC]

<SNIP>

If you go into Tesco they already have quite a decent sized area with what Hornby/Corgi are proposing- toy cars, vehicles etc and a lot of them are Tesco's own brand. On a recent visit to Ayr to go to the model railway show, after the show and meeting my sister we browsed some of the shops- Poundland has a fairly large range of toy cars/vehicles/fire engines and the like. Even the newsagent in front of the station in the front window had a veritable selection of toy vehicles. These were dirt cheap and probably produced on a shoestring. So it asks me the question how a large corporation like Corgi would be able to compete on this playing field with all the lumbering producton, distribution expenses etc. And then it struck me- having the Corgi and Hornby name on these items would differentiate these products from the similar cheap toys, afterall who would be buying these products for the kids- the parents and they would recognise either Hornby/Corgi name- clever eh?

 

To me here lies the problem if Hornby goes down the cheap toy route; if Tesco etc can source their own brand stuff direct why should they put in additional cost [and less profit] by using a middleman like Hornby. There are many names out there on cheap toys, none of which I've heard of, and at this price point does a known name have much value, personally I doubt it as price is everything and I seriously doubt there is any customer brand loyalty. Would Rolls Royce stand out if they produced cheap cars? In model railways Hornby is one of four big manufacturers, so their name stands out and they're a brand leader, in the cheap market this could be drowned out by the 'noise' of many competitors and they'll be nothing special.

 

As a general view not confined to model railways etc, it seems to me Hornby are in danger of doing what has destroyed much of British business [and manufacturing], trying to compete with the cheap end of the market rather than following the route which some other European countries have in concentrating on high value, high quality products. As to which is more successfull well, which countries still have a manufacturing base to fall back on? [i'm well aware that Hornby manufacture in China, just making a general point.]

 

Jeremy

[Guest 40-something]

If Hornby dropped out of model railways then that would a big loss to the hobby. How many of us on this forum entered the hobby through a Hornby train set? If someone mentions 'train sets' or 'toy trains' they instantly think of Hornby.

 

Recent discussion with a workmate who bought his son a Pendolino set, he'd never heard of Bachmann, Dapol, Farish etc etc, and had no idea about the different scales. I gave him a brief outline of the hobby and introduced him to the hattons website as a guide whats available. He was shocked at the varied range from many suppliers and on seeing a Bachmann Voyager, thought that would be a good add for his son as the units look alike. I also gave him a couple of ideas for magazines to buy to encourage his boy to take up the hobby as he gets older (he's 7 btw).

 

You go into a toy store such as Hamleys - they only sell Hornby at what seems like full RRP. Argos only sell Hornby, mail-order catalogues only seem to sell Hornby. Modelzone has more on offer admittedly, but not every town has an MZ store.

[coachmann]

How many of us on this forum entered the hobby through a Hornby train set? If someone mentions 'train sets' or 'toy trains' they instantly think of Hornby.

For those who didnt start with a Hornby Dublo trainset, it would have been Triang. But while the revived "Hornby" has been around let us not forget Airfix, Replica, Mainline and Bachmann were upping the bar and producing what were very good scale models for their time whilst Hornby was still producing Triang-ish characatures.

[frobisher]

If Hornby dropped out of model railways then that would a big loss to the hobby. How many of us on this forum entered the hobby through a Hornby train set? If someone mentions 'train sets' or 'toy trains' they instantly think of Hornby.

 

Thing is, if Hornby stopped being a manufacturer of model railways, I would guarentee that the brand (and indeed tooling) would be sold on as a disposible asset. At that point if I were Bachmann or Dapol I would look at that as an opportunity to make a land grab for the market. The name and products would continue. I can't actually see Hornby doing that however - if Hornby can't make money with model trains then we have a bigger problem than Hornby feeling the pinch.