RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well that's a newspaper headline way of drawing attention to things but it appears that Frank Martin has little respect for his model railway customer base and rather limited understanding of why the company he heads has not been doing too well in that market. So 'thank goodness for the Olympics' seems to be the order of the day followed by some cheapo vehicles - I wonder if they'll be to any recognisable railway scale although with Mr Martin at the helm that could well be unlikely; but at least you'll be able to get them in Tesco it would seem. http://www.telegraph...-direction.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh dear oh dear. He wants to compete in the cheap tat end of the market ?????? Seems a very worrying trend from a model railway perspective, a particularly strange move given that it has been the 'adult collector' market that led to Hornby's improved financial performance in the 2000s IMHO anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh dear, that sounds rather depressing. Thank goodness for Bachmann - at least they seem to have an actual interest in a full, consistent model railway range, rather than a somewhat variable collection of superannuated products with an "individual" approach to pricing. Noticed the phrase "fire-stocker's shovel" - huh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hmmmm - pretty much explains their moves in the diecast aircraft market too. Range cutting and an increasing emphasis of "popular" items - 3 spitfires exactly the same except for the squadron codes etc... His usage of weasel words to describe serious collectors when he clearly thinks that they are nerds shows an attitude that stinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 "Hornby in the UK is easily the biggest hobby company, but the toy market is bigger by a factor of 15 or 20 times." Rather more important to compare profit margin than turnover. Then let's think how fickle that toy market is - Toy Story 3 train set anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 And also from the Torygraph was this item http://www.telegraph...l#disqus_thread This range to be released to succeed the Olympics 'one-off windfall'. It seems ludicrous that while there are forces people being killed and injured in Afghanistan, that this commercial range is announced. It would be less tacky if the announcement mentioned something to the effect that some of the profits received would go to helping those injured or the families of those who have died, but alas, this is not the case... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Lesson 1: There is no loyalty in modern business. Lesson 2: If in doubt, refer to Lesson 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains4U Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I'm sure this isn't the message Frank Martin wanted to convey. It is typical lazy journalism, using broad brush insults to attack a minority that would be ignored if we even tried to reply. Why is it accepted that railway enthusts can be ridiculed and vilified? Why not aircraft enthusasts, or old women who collect plates with pictures of cats on them, or real nerds who stay glued to friendface or Twibberish on their iPhones and blackberries, rather than having a real life. The article is full of the usual tiresome puns (If you look through related articles, the same wearisome headline 'joke' is used twice more...) that seem to infect any potentially serious article about the hobby in the mainstream press - at least they haven't used "Choo-Choose" yet - which the local paper did to me, in the business section, much to my aggravation. Its not big, its not clever and it certainly isn't funny - If Mr Martin wanted the Telegraph to perform a hatchet job on his reputation to his core customers, then it's a job well done. But this article has done him, and Hornby, no favours at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Ah...But will they be cheap ??..Tesco prices ? during the Olympics ? What with Hornby's present RRPs and the London souvenier shops' mark-ups,... l don't don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 I agree the article itself is the usual lazy journalism, but Hornby's shift of strategic direction towards movie tie-ins and suchlike has been clear from Frank Martin's first interviews when he took over the helm, and confirmed if you look at the experience of his current team. Just how worrying this should be for those buying current model railway products is debatable, but it's difficult to see it is a positive move. For the avoidance of doubt, I really don't think having a hardcore rivet counting trainspotter as CEO would be a good idea, it's just that the move away from the product range that revitalised their financial performance in the 2000s is worrying, as is their very public (from a shareholder perspective) inability to overcome their supplier problems out east. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 But this article has done him, and Hornby, no favours at all. I totally agree. Notwithstanding the usual clichés from a journalist there's quite a lot to read between the lines there that no amount of PR speak will convince us otherwise. Irrespective of Hornby's supply chain issues over the last couple of years possibly exacerbated by land-grabbing in the hobby market to fuel growth there have been many signs following the end of year product announcements that Hornby place revenue and profit way ahead of brand loyalty. With the evidence that quality of new products is going backwards whilst prices rise in their product range that interest our particular sector of the hobby compared to a few years ago it looks to me as though Hornby are choosing to move away from away our spending and concentrate effort and investment in other areas. I honestly think that Hornby have lost the 'brand leader' position in our part of the market. If they were to go further down the road away from us some would say that it would be a loss of healthy competition but that, due to the influx of new producers in their home territory, is no longer the case and it could be fired back at Hornby that our interests can be sufficiently well served in the future by Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan and the increasing number of smaller interests. We actually wouldn't have to mourn the lack of future interest from Hornby if that's what it turns out to be. This story makes it easier to visualise a future without Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 "Hornby in the UK is easily the biggest hobby company, but the toy market is bigger by a factor of 15 or 20 times." Rather more important to compare profit margin than turnover. Then let's think how fickle that toy market is - Toy Story 3 train set anyone? Not to mention the potential market share in those respective markets. Does he think Hornby can become "Easily the biggest toy company" any time soon? Supermarket toys are mostly end of line sell-offs aren't a part of the core business of supermarkets. As such they are low on the list of priorities for supermarket staff. I certainly wouldn't like to pin the future of my business on toy sales through supermarkets. I see from the bottom of that page that his first job was at Raleigh, as toy division product manager in the '70s. I stand to be corrected but didn't trying to move from its core business of cycles, into toys and the like, all but finish Raleigh? It looks his backround is in toys and as a result he sees this as the answer to everything. He is trying to move the business to what he knows rather than getting to know the business he is in. Ineresting that he regards moving production to China as having saved the company yet rising labour costs in China and an unreliable supplier are given as two of the biggest problems facing the company. I see the article mentions his impending retirement so there is light at the end of the tunnel. If Hornby are still producing tunnels by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 But can they actually be successful in the toy market if they are always going to be 1) late to market (Toy Story 3 Trainsets cited) or 2) lacking in quality control (Hornby 4VEPs cited) or 3) Overestimating the market value of their products (2011 RRPs which have fluctuated wildly)? Overall I'm stumped at Frank Martin's comments as from that you can read up on Hornby on the web, they're doing well to a point but still after several years of problems not managing their chain of command/supply chain effectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I get the impression that production is likely to move again, India being a possibility. The bubble has burst in the cheap chinese labour market. Hopefully it'll come about full circle and production will return to the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Garry D100 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2011 My opinion of Hornby of the last few years is that they feel they can sell what ever quality they like at what ever price they like just because they are Hornby. And that attitude relies a lot on brand loyalty from its customers. Be interesting to see how this turns out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 I see from the bottom of that page that his first job was at Raleigh, as toy division product manager in the '70s. I stand to be corrected but didn't trying to move from its core business of cycles, into toys and the like, all but finish Raleigh? It looks his backround is in toys and as a result he sees this as the answer to everything. He is trying to move the business to what he knows rather than getting to know the business he is in. We looked at the make-up of the Hornby board here:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38545-Hornby-trading-results/page__st__50 Not much experience in model railway manufacturing to be seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yes, it is easy to attack others with different interests is it not? Not a good road to go down. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2011 Proud to be a nerd----though my eyesight never coped with rivets----has anyone noted the name of the offending (and offensive ) journalist who scribed this piece of ill-researched flummery ? A certain Mr. Wallop--or is this a 'nom de plume' ? Any divers among us prepared to pull the proverbial plug on Mr. Martin's boat whilst he is hosting Telegraph journalists to sour apple cocktails. As a journalist of many years' experience and wisdom,I'm sure Dibber 25 will have something to say on this topic. To Mr.Martin,the proverbial advice----in God's name,go! Such contempt. Pride cometh before a fall. 2012 marketing will be followed by 2013. Seven fat years,followed by............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 My opinion of Hornby of the last few years is that they feel they can sell what ever quality they like at what ever price they like just because they are Hornby. And that attitude relies a lot on brand loyalty from its customers. Be interesting to see how this turns out. Yeah, Rover tried that one (CityRover for example) - look what happened to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Business people running a company they do not understand? Well I never, in the UK? Do people never learn from past errors or or that not a consideration? The Hornby name has been associated with railway modelling for a long, long time or does that mean nothing these days? As the auld song goes... "Its a rich[???] mans world,,,,,,,,,," Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 If this CEO has indeed been "walloped" by this reporter, which I doubt as he seems to be the Telegraph's regular "Hornby" reporter, two unfortunate traits, which seem to blight a lot of home-grown CEOs, still show through quite clearly: A certain degree of contempt for a part of/some of/all of (delete as appropriate) your existing customer base - the "Ratner" principle. A largely mistaken belief that their skills are transferable from one business to another, but what they actually do is repeat what they did before hoping it will "work" again in a different time/environment with no allowance being made for the inevitable differences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I honestly think that Hornby have lost the 'brand leader' position in our part of the market. This story makes it easier to visualise a future without Hornby. Very astute comments from Andy there - I have just worked out that the last Hornby model I bought new was one of the Maunsell "C" BY vans (about 3 years ago) - even changing my mind recently and not getting the 4-VEP which I intended to (Southern Region born, bred and worked). This tells its own story in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2011 If this CEO has indeed been "walloped" by this reporter, which I doubt as he seems to be the Telegraph's regular "Hornby" reporter, two unfortunate traits, which seem to blight a lot of home-grown CEOs, still show through quite clearly: A certain degree of contempt for a part of/some of/all of (delete as appropriate) your existing customer base - the "Ratner" principle. A largely mistaken belief that their skills are transferable from one business to another, but what they actually do is repeat what they did before hoping it will "work" again in a different time/environment with no allowance being made for the inevitable differences. Spot on - the Ratner name came to my mind as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted September 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2011 Mr Wallop says it all in his name(if that is real)..... codswallop. As has been said, it's lazy insulting journalism at its worst. I suspect that this *anker has some secret vice of his own, if we did but know. I'm proud of mine though! Seriously though, I do find this sort of 'journalism' offensive. Just Google him and see what you get...a vacuous nerd ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 If this CEO has indeed been "walloped" by this reporter, which I doubt as he seems to be the Telegraph's regular "Hornby" reporter, two unfortunate traits, which seem to blight a lot of home-grown CEOs, still show through quite clearly: A certain degree of contempt for a part of/some of/all of (delete as appropriate) your existing customer base - the "Ratner" principle. A largely mistaken belief that their skills are transferable from one business to another, but what they actually do is repeat what they did before hoping it will "work" again in a different time/environment with no allowance being made for the inevitable differences. Do Hornby have a PR dept.? If so, either the job they are supposed to perform has not been done correctly, or they have been simply over-ruled and/or ignored... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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