Trog Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Gents. I was thinking of repainting a Hornby Trout ballast hopper into LMS livery. LMS Wagons Volume 1 tells me that there were 20 such wagons built for the LMS in 1928 Dia1800, and gives 282504 as an example number. Does anyone know any other LMS numbers carried by this type of wagon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted October 26, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2011 I'd need to check, but I think that the ex-LMS TROUT was a different design to the BR one modelled by Hornby. The TROUT name simply implied a 25T ballast hopper; the same name could be used for different designs with the same capacity. The BR TROUT as modelled by Hornby is the same design as the original ex-LNER version. I have just produced a sheet of transfers for the BR version in original black livery with yellow lettering. See Sheet BL117 at http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm . Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Tatlow LNER Wagons states LNER design also built for LMS with 3 link couplings and smaller buffers. No other info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Probably worth remembering that the Hornby style trout was more or less straight out of the Leeds Forge/Met-Cam 'catalog', rather than being a big four design. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 According to page 88 of LMS Wagons vol.1, 20 were built to D1800 in 1928 by Leeds Forge. Only a single running number is known though. Definitely a candidate for a repaint! Does anyone know the usual operating area for these or would they be all over the LMS system? Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Probably worth remembering that the Hornby style trout was more or less straight out of the Leeds Forge/Met-Cam 'catalog', rather than being a big four design. Jon I havent seen one in the "flesh" so far. From photos I cannot see any differences ? what are they ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted October 26, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2011 According to page 88 of LMS Wagons vol.1, 20 were built to D1800 in 1928 by Leeds Forge. Only a single running number is known though. Definitely a candidate for a repaint! Does anyone know the usual operating area for these or would they be all over the LMS system? Cheers, Quite correct - I was thinking of the LMS Diagram 1804 25T ballast hopper, illustrated on page 89 of LMS Wagons vol.1, and also initially coded TROUT but later re-coded GANNET. It just goes to show - never rely on memory alone. David Larkin lists eighteen LMS running numbers, and a considerable number of LNER ones, in his ballast hopper data sheet. This being copyright, I can't copy the information here. Allocations are only known for the first BR batch of thirty-three wagons; I have thus confined the content of my transfer sheet to this batch. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 I can see that the typesetting and any photos in a book or list would/could be copyright, but surely the actual numbers being purely factual information wont be. Otherwise the list compiler would have broken the Railways copyright by copying them off the wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted October 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2011 I can see that the typesetting and any photos in a book or list would/could be copyright, but surely the actual numbers being purely factual information wont be. Otherwise the list compiler would have broken the Railways copyright by copying them off the wagons. David Larkin's data sheets were compiled through long hours of hand transcribing and retyping the BR records, (with permission). Had he not done so, the information would have been destroyed. He makes this information available for a modest charge via his data sheets. I, for one, am not prepared to compromise any financial return that he obtains by offering his sheets for sale by publishing their contents without permission. If you neen the info', contact David and buy the relevant data sheet. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 A better and more worthy reason than copyright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 It has taken me a while to get round to it, but here she is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted September 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2012 A better and more worthy reason than copyright. But surely that is the INTENT of copyright laws, to protect those that go to the trouble of making an item, or in this instance, copying some existing information to a usable format? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Probably worth remembering that the Hornby style trout was more or less straight out of the Leeds Forge/Met-Cam 'catalog', rather than being a big four design. Jon Indeed. The SECR in fact had something very similar to the Trout, bought from Leeds Forge, albeit with a pressed steel door (or pair of doors, the relevant book is at home and i can't quite remember) in the upper panels. These certainly lasted into BR days though how long I am not sure. If the answer - which I reckon will be in the SECR volume of the multi-part SR Wagons series and, unfortunately, isn't a book I own - is much post 1960 then I might even have a go some day. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 But surely that is the INTENT of copyright laws, to protect those that go to the trouble of making an item, or in this instance, copying some existing information to a usable format? Copyright is intended to reward those who invent or do something original, hence the numbers themselves being merely copied would not I think be protected by copyright. The list they are contained in as a whole may however be subject to copyright protection, as the formatting and setting out of the text is original work. Hence I think in this case photo-copying the original list would be against copyright, but transcribing the numbers to a new list of your own by hand would not be. As it happens the author of the list has also published the numbers in a book, which is a good and useful source of information to those interested in this class of wagon. Hopefully his publisher will soon be sending him his share of the purchase price of my copy, as is deserved for his efforts on our behalf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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