Bachmann value sound

[Chrisr40]

Good Morning - has anyone else seen the story on the Bachmann home page about reduced spec sound decoders in US locos ?

 

It appears to be a decoder with less functions than the usual sound chips but still with the chuff, growl, whistle etc for steam or diesel that would keep a decent percentage of buyers quite happy.

 

From a personal point of view I think its a good idea and hope it gets considered for over here.

 

regards

 

 

Chris

[M Graff]

Yes, I'm very keen on seeing how it works and sounds. As it is a basic version of a Tsunami, I guess that it will work quite good but with less sound features.

Look at the pricing of the new Bachmann (USA) 2-6-0, if that is to be the future, I'm definitely on it!

[Oldddudders]

I hadn't/haven't seen the story, but generic sound is "good enough" for a fair % of the market, I am quite sure. You may know exactly how a 25, 37 or A4 really sounds, but a lot of people don't or don't care, and any sound is still seen as a novelty. As I have posted elsewhere, I have no real way of knowing what most US steam locos sounded like, because there are very few left in operational order, and many key classes have not been preserved even in the rust, let alone operating. Therefore an appropriate chuffing noise - according to size - plus a bell and any other distinctive sounds such as the style of whistle, will keep me happy.

 

In the UK, the preservation movement has done a sterling job of keeping many more locos in steam, so the real sound is more often available - but even so generic sounds will serve a great many modellers (or, at least, train-set owners) very well. And I'm quite sure that just as there is still an "all diesels look the same" brigade, so the differences in prime mover sounds will be lost on many. A cheap sound-equipped loco under the Xmas tree sounds like a wonderful gift, frankly.

[SRman]

This idea may also benefit those who want to use sound on DC so don't have access to anything but the basic engine sounds anyway.

[Chrisr40]

Morning gents

 

I think the key is to offer the locos to the target market with the two options - all singing and dancing sound chips and then as above the chip that covers the basic sounds and at the risk of offending anyone - makes it good fun to play with. I am quite surprised that with its railroad range Hornby havent had the idea already for their UK locos.

 

Chris

[Chrisr40]

This idea may also benefit those who want to use sound on DC so don't have access to anything but the basic engine sounds anyway.

 

Yes good point - or those of us who have very basic dcc controllers.

[SRman]

This was brought home to me recently as I have set several fellow BRMA members' Bachmann sound models up to produce sound on DC in recent times (set CV13 to a value of 1). Hornby already do this.

 

At least two of those members are seriously considering going to DCC when their finances allow, but in the meantime they can enjoy the "benefits" (??) of sound on DC. They also get the "benefit" of a start up (on diesels) each time they accidentally cut the power too much!!

 

For those who want to stick with DC, current sound locos are really rather expensive for the limited range of sounds they will get on plain DC (and, as Chris said, for those with very basic DCC systems too). So, as I said earlier, this idea of basic sounds only may well spread the joys of sound much further.

 

[Chrisr40]

Im glad this has got a good reception - I do worry that the leap to 100% prototypical ( or as close as is possible ) sound is a very big leap and a half way house is in order. Lets hope that the Bachmann folks have put it on the web page as a teaser and as a sign of things to come for those of us that like to play / model in British outline.

 

Chris

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

This will work well enough for steam. There are quite a few 'budget' sound decoders that feature quite good steam projects if one is not too fussy.

 

As always though and as one poster has pointed out, this is of benefit to the trainset market so it will be good for the manufacturers but will do very little for this forum and this sub forum in particular since I doubt that any of it is adjustable or capable of a re-blow.

 

The standard Tsunami chip is quite adjustable but has pre - loaded sounds that are distinctly American. Thus this is the market that it will be aimed at. I suspect that the UK market will be ignored as our sounds are very different to both the US and most of Europe. One of the biggest complaints about pre - loaded sounds is the bell and I can recall endless posts about how to switch it off on early sound decoders. The growth of ESU Loksound was mainly predicated by the abiility to do just that and followed by the ability to load the unique UK diesel sounds and make them sound quite realistic.

 

It is this ability and the ( eventual and long forecast addition of Zimo that didn't mirror that ability at first ) that enabled the sound market and encouraged Bachmann and Hornby to fit sound to the UK diesel fleet. If we had all stuck to steam, the ESU Loksound decoder would never have cornered the market in quite such numbers IMHO

[LIRR]

I do worry that the leap to 100% prototypical ( or as close as is possible ) sound is a very big leap and a half way house is in order. Lets hope that the Bachmann folks have put it on the web page as a teaser and as a sign of things to come for those of us that like to play / model in British outline.

 

Chris

 

If I may further add that for some classes of Locomotives and multiple units, there may not be an adequate recording available. The generic approach would enable something approximating the sounds. For those in the hobby who want a higher level of prototype fidelity, then the specialist chip would still be their choice and I doubt there would be much cannibalisation of the existing UK specific market.

 

To be honest the thought of paying GBP 120 for a class 117 or 115 sound chip, which is as close as I can find for a class 124*, is not as attractive to me as GBP 60 for a generic , but then I am probably not representative of forum members here.

 

Andy

 

*I haven't looked too hard to be honest

[SRman]

Nothing wrong with that view, Andy. It's 'horses for courses'. I can't see any reason to spend GBP 115 or 120 when the GBP 60 one will fit your requirements - you may even choose to get two for the price of one higher end decoder!

 

Also, while the Bachmann cheapie sound is currently of US subjects, there is no reason why they could not eventually load some British sounds onto the decoder. They may or may not be reprogrammable but they could almost certainly load the sounds on at the factory.

[brossard]

I always assumed that we pay as much as we do for sound decoders because the retailers have to put such a lot of effort into recording the sounds. Such a thing can't be cheap and I was thinking that part of the price was recoupment (is that a word?) of the Non Recurring Expenditure. I can well understand that a chip with generic sounds would be cheaper because, at most, there is the cost to license the sound files.

 

I don't know what a "blank" Loksound decoder costs.

 

John

[SRman]

The "blank" LokSounds usually come with pre-loaded sounds from ESU's lists which are freely downloadable for loading with their LokProgrammer. This list does not include any British sounds that I am aware of. The price is a bit less than the ones with British sounds (Howes, SWD, Olivia's, etc.) but not usually cheap anyway, although i did manage to get some from the USA at bargain prices then had Howes' sounds blown onto them.

 

Having said all that, John is quite right. The people responsible for recording and editing the British sounds do put quite a lot of time and effort into the job. They are entitled to charge enough to recoup their costs and make a little profit in the longer term. I don't think anyone can begrudge them this.

[pauliebanger]

 

If I may further add that for some classes of Locomotives and multiple units, there may not be an adequate recording available. The generic approach would enable something approximating the sounds. For those in the hobby who want a higher level of prototype fidelity, then the specialist chip would still be their choice and I doubt there would be much cannibalisation of the existing UK specific market.

 

To be honest the thought of paying GBP 120 for a class 117 or 115 sound chip, which is as close as I can find for a class 124*, is not as attractive to me as GBP 60 for a generic , but then I am probably not representative of forum members here.

 

Andy

 

*I haven't looked too hard to be honest

 

Andy,

 

You could also consider Zimo MX644/MX645. At £79 from Digitrains, not only is it close in price to the budget model you are discussing, it is also fully featured and fully programmable so can be updated when 115 or 117 sounds become available.

 

And of course, theses decoders are available now.

 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

Having said all that, John is quite right. The people responsible for recording and editing the British sounds do put quite a lot of time and effort into the job. They are entitled to charge enough to recoup their costs and make a little profit in the longer term. I don't think anyone can begrudge them this.

My observation of the prices of Loksound decoders from ESU itself, as widely sold on ebay and elsewhere, is that they are really very little different from those of the specialist UK sound recordists. I believe SWD, Howes, Olivia's etc are making very little money from their efforts, and should be applauded as such.

[M Graff]

I think that the UK sound makers have created a twin edged sword.....

The effort they make to produce UK specific sound files for Loksound decoders, makes it totally uninteresting for ESU to produce any UK sounds....

So you will have to accept that UK sound is more expensive for now....

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

The profit in sound decoders has a lot to do with how cheaply you can buy the decoders from ESU and what the market will stand in terms of how much the customers are prepared to pay for the project as offered.

 

The sound project compiler usually gets a modest fee for every decoder he loads. There is nothing to prevent a retailer from compiling and loading his own sounds but not all of them do.

[Chrisr40]

Evening all

 

after posting this topic I wrote to Bachmann via their web page and received a polite reply stating that there are no plans to introduce it to the UK range at present. In my opinion a shame but hey what can you do. Thanks to all who took the time to read and post on this thread.

 

Chris

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

No disagreement with Doddy on this but it has to be said that Digitrax users have managed to write a programme for the Digitrax sound decoders that does actually play the appropriate files for UK and US notching.

 

Still not enough memory though and still poor speakers and a lot of bugs to iron out if you play with the chips programming files.

 

Digitrax is still the only sound decoder that will let you play that deep.

 

With the current crop of new and sophisticated decoders, life is a tad too short hobby-wise, methinks and there is another conundrum in that if you are intelligent enough to play successfully with the programming of a chip you could probably afford to buy the RTR product anyway.