PaulG Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Kenton: "In terms of prototype info - the shed derelict and without a roof from the early 1940's and locos were serviced in the shed yard, it was closed in 1956" I published a series of articles in the GERS Journal by David Butcher. In the 1950s he has a fireman at Southend and worked the Southminster branch where part of his duty was to stay overnight at Southminster with the branch loco (N-7) for the first up working of the day and he states the roof was intact with gas lighting at that time. I couldn't find at the time of my article on Southminster Station (and haven't subsequently found) a precise date when the shed roof was destroyed. Can you provide the source of your information that the roof was destroyed in the early 1940's? Regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have a grotty OS map dated 1890' (or about) it doesn't show the headshunt - but then it doesn't show the catch either - but it surely must have been there. Why? The GER didn't usually site catch/trap points from sidings onto loops, and there is a trap point protecting the main line from the loop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Can you provide the source of your information that the roof was destroyed in the early 1940's? Not immediately at hand - just notes made on the many cards I have for sheds. The photo I believe has been published (I don't wish to break copyright rules) It was submitted to our website for publication but without authority - I believe it is a scan. It came with the information - John Edgington collection dated Feb 1955. It is very clear on the photo that the gables and entire roof were missing. It certainly does not appear to be habitable by that date. I have also just pulled out another usually reliable source on shed details (Griffiths an Smith Directory of British Engine Sheds) which states (p127) that "The building was roofless by BR days". So that also suggests a date prior to 1949. But obviously if you have local record of it being destroyed by fire in the early 1950's I need to correct my notes. Though it would be better to get a more specific date for the event. As to a loco staying overnight I can see nothing to contradict that as it would probably have just used the roads/pits as mentioned by Buckjumper. Perhaps there were "accommodation" in outbuildings or even at the station/goods shed. The shed itself appears to be very plain in plan with no such building attached. But they do not always appear on such OS maps and so may have existed. Again photographs of the back of sheds tend to be even rarer than of the sheds themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Why? The GER didn't usually site catch/trap points from sidings onto loops, and there is a trap point protecting the main line from the loop. Perhaps I am misunderstanding what is a loop for what appears to be a main line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Perhaps I am misunderstanding what is a loop for what appears to be a main line Ah, yes, easily done. The plan doesn't show it, but the Southminster branch was a single line. About 12 chains west of the turnouts into the coal and goods shed road was a kickback siding into a gravel ballast pit on the down side, with another private siding beyond that. The 'loop' road extended beyond these sidings, but I don't know it's full extent. [conjecture]Is it possible the western end was used as an exchange siding for the gravel pit? [/conjecture] I know so very little about operations at Southminster, so can't really add much more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 the engine shed.......was gabled as far as i can see.. a coiple of Q's the roads into the shed..is it 1 opening for both roads or did each road have it's own opening? do you have a rough size? did it have vents/windows in the roof? how many windows in the side did it have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 the engine shed.......was gabled as far as i can see Pitched, I believe, with what looks like a central ventilated clerestory the roads into the shed..is it 1 opening for both roads or did each road have it's own opening? One each. do you have a rough size? Seventy eight feet approx. did it have vents/windows in the roof? See above. how many windows in the side did it have? Dunno. Looks like there were about seven bays in the brickwork, but the photos are too oblique an angle to be sure. Suggestion: Join the GER Society and order Journal back issue 102 - you'll find maps, photographs and pots of info which you can use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Buckjumper, thanks for clarifying the trackwork in the area regarding the loop. Pitched, I believe, with what looks like a central ventilated clerestory Dunno. Looks like there were about seven bays in the brickwork, but the photos are too oblique an angle to be sure. Suggestion: Join the GER Society and order Journal back issue 102 - you'll find maps, photographs and pots of info which you can use. I have it as being of gable style slate roof ? I am in agreement from the photo described above it is 7 bays - at least on the west side. The windows are arched. As indicated above there may have been an attached building/office/bothy on the east side - but as far as I can see from the OS map there was none. Of course to the rear there were the short through roads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have it as being of gable style slate roof ? You're correct. Mea culpa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Just to add to a couple of previous comments. The shed was roofless by early 1945 according to the Wild Swan book on GER sheds. Another quirk of the GER carried on into BR days was to treat the turntable as just another piece of track and use it for parking locos and wagons. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted December 6, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'm afraid I've only scanned one neg from my photo survey in 1977 and have attached a quick and dirty edit below. This is clearly the view from the buffer stops towards the station throat. I was told that at that time loco-hauled trains were still using the branch, hence retention of the run-round facilities. If I can find some time over the next few weeks I'll try to scan some more negs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Trevellan, that image in itself is quite interesting confirming the orientation of he goods shed as per Buckjumper's trackplan rather than gobbler's drawing/plan. It probably explains why there was all the concern over the road access. It also shows that the ground to the left was not flat (same level as track at buffers) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Just to add to a couple of previous comments. The shed was roofless by early 1945 according to the Wild Swan book on GER sheds. Another quirk of the GER carried on into BR days was to treat the turntable as just another piece of track and use it for parking locos and wagons. Bernard As I mentioned in my earlier comment, David Butcher, who was a fireman on the line from 1951 clearly stated the roof was intact at that time. David talks about "the shed lights were lit." etc. David moved to the Cambridge line in 1953. In his book,"From Steam to Stone" p52 there is a photo of Southminster shed by RM Casserley clearly showing the roof substantially in place dated April 1954. Many loco shed roofs were destroyed by fire and subsequently replaced, Colchester being another, so although I note the item in Chris Hawkins book, the photo evidence shows otherwise. My guess is there was a small fire in the roof section in the area of the doors during the winter 1953/4 and the roof dismantled during the later part of 1954. There is a photo dated February 1955, which shows the roof missing. One of these days I'll have some time to check the local newspaper archives and see if there are any reports. Regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The shed was roofless by early 1945 according to the Wild Swan book on GER sheds. It makes you wonder if that was a simple transposition 1945 instead of 1954 - because if it was it is a simple error to make and would explain a great deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 That end shot of the goods shed, clearly shows a 3 arch end, the one closet the main line being the open road to the shed. A most helpful view scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted December 7, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2009 I was most fortunate that on the day I carried out my photo survey the only railman on duty was the signalman. Having explained the reason for my visit he allowed me a free run of the whole station area, although naturally being alert to the DMU service arrivals and departures and keeping well away from the running line at those times. As I said, I'll try to find some time to scan more negs from that series, although this is a precious commodity at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 i can also see the 1st floor of the station building has 2 windows, i previously thought it was just 1. I notice a few shelters at the end of the platform and the way the platform slopes at the end. what happened to the buffer stop to the line to the left? how does one model the turnout cables/rods & supports? Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Went to Witham MRC last night, met the signalman, everyone there was very helpful. discovered that the station was originally a lot longer than it is now. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Scott "discovered that the station was originally a lot longer than it is now." All the GER station buildings were demolished by BR in the 1960s, with the exception of station masters house at Southminster, Burnham and South Woodham. At Battlesbridge, Althorne and Fambridge everything was demolished and "bus" shelters erected. At Woodham, the remaining building has recently been further reduced to single storey. Drawings of the stations buildings as built by the GER (and in existance in early BR days) are available through the Great Eastern Railway Society - the design was "standard" for the Southminster branch and Rayleigh to Prittlewell stations on the Southend line. Southminster Station was built as a through station, giving the option to extend further into the Dengie, if/when traffic developed. As you probably know, Wickford to Southend Victoria and Wickford to Southminster were both constructed as single lines, with only the Southend line being subsequently doubled, as traffic developed. Regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 thanks for the station info.... the cd that's mentioned for a fiver does that contain the drawings? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
making tracks Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hello - I worked at Southminster station for some years, and have some interesting photos which if I can find, will, post. Took some of the goods shed just before it was demplished too. We took the first ( and only ) class 86 86205 "city of lancaster" up there, and of course the flask traffic,normally with a 37 or sometimes a 31 once a week. I would love to see a model of this station. In the summer, you can see where the turnable was exactly, as different plants grow in the well. I also have somewhere the GER track plan, so will also post a scan if this if I can find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Mr making tracks..... that would be brill.... i have started on the station building, this has all been guesstimated. i've used will embossed plastic sheets, the window frames are 0.5 x 0.5mm details in the 50 ft TT would be welcome, infact any info or pix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbler Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 thanks to trevellan, if you look at the b/w photo, this shows the post 1960 form of the station, with the station masters house and waiting room, the station was almost twice as long. connected to the remaining waiting room was a booking office under a gable roof, attached to this (similar to the existing waiting) was the male waiting, porters room and a parcels/lock up under a flat roof. i will be modelling pre-1960 station with all the extra rooms as described. in the full form the rear canopy was deeper & supported by seven pillars. the canopy was reduced in depth when the line was electrified and shortened, to a length of four support pillars when the station was reduced in size. will post more updates soon scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted December 20, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2009 As promised, I have managed to scan some more negatives from my March 1977 photographic survey of Southminster station. Two edits are reproduced below, both featuring the attractive goods shed. As you can see, the images were shot from two opposite corners of the building, showing both the road and rail access. More to come when time permits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin@gorleston Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 It's good to see another GER layout in the making.This is one I will follow with interest. Keep up the good work. Regards Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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