Andy Y Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Stoppit; I've had too many 7mm temptations of late which I cannot currently afford. I was also thinking about K7haven to replicate the 4mm version; now that would be tasty. As K2yhaven's getting nowhere I wanted to tackle a lower-cost layout of scenic/structural interest in the interim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2011 ooh ohh - we could share ideas for 7mm inset track Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Monmore Green Basin originally belonged to the Chillington Ironworks, hence the alternative name, and were served by their narrow gauge railway. Taking a look at the 1888 map it shows the ironworks and associated track plan alongside the colliery. The narrow gauge line went over the GW and beneath the LNW to arrive at the canal wharf, less than half a mile from end to end, the Black Country in a nutshell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2011 Taking a look at the 1888 map it shows the ironworks and associated track plan alongside the colliery. The narrow gauge line went over the GW and beneath the LNW to arrive at the canal wharf, less than half a mile from end to end, the Black Country in a nutshell. Half a mile of narrow gauge in 7mm - you must have room for that - model of a complete line. Come and see me on stand D62 at the NEC for your free copy of 'Getting Started' in 7mm Narrow Gauge (£5 to anyone else) Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2011 AndyI have a single line pway diagram of the Walsall St depot showing Shrubbery Basin. Will scan and post later. Drawing as promised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Come and see me on stand D62 at the NEC for your free copy of 'Getting Started' in 7mm Narrow Gauge (£5 to anyone else) That's entrapment that is. Grawing as promised. Thank you TSE! Interesting to see it still showed a spur for the sawmill (which was through the bridge under the LNW) and also that an earlier run-around in the basin had gone, although I could do with one for operational purposes). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2011 Obviously the drawing is only a schematic to fit the page and ignorning the LNW line completely, but has some interesting bits such as the turntable to serve the Chillington Tool private siding on the other side of the GW main line. The two below show Stow Heath and Priestfield. The notes on them are because they were used to assess the value of S&T scrap for the imminent closure of the GW line. I think the only evidence on site to show where Shrubbery Basin was is the slight change in the alignment of the towpath and canal bank about 250 yards north of the Chillington canal arm. I think that the brickwork of the arches where the Shrubbery line went under the LNW line is still visible but I think the arches were blocked off around the time when the BOC siding was put in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 The only vestige of Shrubbery Basin where it came off the main canal. I've taken around 100 reference pics from around the perimeter of Chillington Wharf today, if all goes to plan tomorrow I'll be able to take the images I'd like of the structure from within thanks to the courtesy of the site's owners. I've also found a contact at BOC who may have archive plans and photos of Shrubbery Basins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Apologies if this has been posted and I've missed it http://www.localhist...N/Shrubbery.htm Edit add http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/people/local/thorneycroft Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 A visit to Wolverhampton Steel Terminal today enabled me to get images of the arches from the former goods depot through to the location of the Shrubbery Basin. Between those and the canal picture from yesterday there is no other trace of the site. Unfortunately BOC do not have any records on their site in the form of maps or images that relate to the Shrubbery Basin. There are text documents relating to the basin in Wolverhampton archives but apparently no maps or images so the trail goes rather cold from a source material for a modelling project. Again from the steel terminal is a shot of the bridge which led through to a single spur siding at the edge of the electricity sub-station. I'm not sure what traffic would have used it as it wasn't a generating plant. I was able to rack up another 100 reference images of the Chillington Wharf structure and confirm a little more about the track plan at various points in its life. My thanks are due to Steve of DB Schenker for his assistance, it was really useful to talk to someone who had worked the wharf and could confirm dates of last usage for various elements. There was also a longer history for Steve with the site as he has a photo of his grandfather (standing in the open wagon) at work on Chillington Wharf. Close examination of the photo showed that all wagons had pre-nationalisation markings and numbering along with the LMS lorry positively dates the picture to pre-nationalisation. This photo also helps position a pylon that was noted on the maps. So, a decision has been made to forego the more unusual alternative and go ahead with a model of Chillington Wharf in some configuration; hopefully I can now move on to capture its busier days in model form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 The electricity sub-station siding was probably for major components such as transformers. The GWR sub-station at Friars Jcn also had a short siding at one time and it ran close along the substation wall from which there was a projecting 'I' section girder above a set of double doors and it was apparently used up until the 1960s for major component exchanges as it was the only access to the site apart from a footpath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 What a shame that the trail goes cold However, since my involvement with the project aiming at securing listed status* for the neighbouring Chillington Wharf back in 2006, I've been absolutely fascinated with it as a truly multi-modal transhipment basin - water, road and rail. Delighted that you've amended your plans, and looking forward to seeing this develop. Was the family of swans still there? * clarification - the basin was listed in 1995, there has been a campaign to get other aftefacts germane to the site included in the listing as intrinsic to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not today, just a lonely coot. It'll probably take me as long to do the crane as everything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not today, just a lonely coot. Don't put yourself down Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Looks like a great project in the making there Andy. Just a thought - do you have Paul Collins' book "Rail Centres - Wolverhampton" (Ian Allan)?. I don't have mine to hand at present but it might be worth a punt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Interesting to see that the crane didn't span any of the canal basin, but seems to have been intended for road/rail transhipment. I wonder if it was put in either immediately pre-war, or during WW2 itself to handle steel for the local engineering industry. I'd guess that the photo was taken either during the war, or just after; the pylon is of the type which was coming into service immediately prior to WW2 (the design of pylons cropped up on Radio 4 recently..), whilst the Double Bolster wagons were an LMS/LNER joint design which appeared in the latter part of WW2, and which were built into the 1950s (you may recognise them as Plate wagons; many had the bolsters removed, and were used as such). What was the canal wharf used for in latter years, and when did it ceased to be used? I'd heard that the canals had an 'Indian Summer' during the war, carrying less time-sensitive materials, so it was presumably just post-war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Aye, it's a beast, perhaps Pete Harvey does an etch I understand that those who know about such things believe - or believed five years ago - that this was worthy of preservation and capable of restoration to working order. Although if memory serves, everything susceptible to cable theft was long gone even then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Interesting to see that the crane didn't span any of the canal basin, but seems to have been intended for road/rail transhipment. Aha! Don't let first impressions fool ya! There was a second arm to the basin, not immediately clear from these photos, but very evident when you walk the towpath past the spur (?) into the site. This second arm would have been spanned by the crane, assuming the dates for the crane's erection and that arm's infilling come in the right order! In fact, RAB covers this point, here: http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/chillington_wharf.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Aha! Don't let first impressions fool ya! There was a second arm to the basin, not immediately clear from these photos, but very evident when you walk the towpath past the spur (?) into the site. This second arm would have been spanned by the crane, assuming the dates for the crane's erection and that arm's infilling come in the right order! In fact, RAB covers this point, here: http://www.railaroun...ngton_wharf.php So would the other branch be where one of the rail tracks was, or where the road was? I'm curious as well as to why such a massive concrete structure was used to support a (relatively) small crane, when much larger cranes elsewhere ran on steel-built structures? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 the pylon is of the type which was coming into service immediately prior to WW2 (the design of pylons cropped up on Radio 4 recently..), Dammit; I didn't think I'd have knowledgeable sorts on pylons to contend with; I thought I'd get away with an old Triang one. My understanding is that the other arm of the basin was blanked off (as a concrete rather than brick wall can be seen at that point as shown below) at some point after 1938, possibly during the war as suggested above at a time when the crane was installed. The concrete that truncates the basin is of a similar type to the crane supports. The 1956 shows the basin removed. As the concrete gantry supports go down to ground level I'd feel comfortable in saying the crane only appeared after the extra arm of the basin was removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not knowledgeable, Andy, just happened to catch something on Radio 4 on my way to work. There's just been a design competition for a new generation of pylons; it turned out the current (sorry..) design was itself a prize-winner pre WW2. Looks as though the massive concrete supports for the crane might be to do with it being on 'made ground' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'd heard that the canals had an 'Indian Summer' during the war, carrying less time-sensitive materials, so it was presumably just post-war. See http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=12072 and http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=47511 Also noticed because of the title:) http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=11606 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 On the subject of boats the image referenced earlier - http://www.photobydjnorton.com/RailwayPictures/LMSWharfNrWhampton.jpg - shows a motor boat or butty in the basin in 1952. I'm surprised the basin was never filled in or at least protected with railings in later years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 See http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=12072 and http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=47511 Also noticed because of the title:) http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=11606 Thanks for that. 3 weeks to do a round trip from London to Birmingham- I think we can see why the railways took over the canals' traffic. In the Potteries, even into the 1980s, there were some pot-banks which still had easier access by canal than by road. There was one in Middleport which was inaccessible to anything larger than a Leyland Terrier (as we found when someone tried taking a Boxer there by mistake..) Shame the Trent and Mersey out the back was only used by tourists by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 As we've had the Shrubbery and I was looking at Pathe for Wolverhampton, found this as a Monty Python link - lupins. There is a rail link ink in there - honest http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=48197 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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