'O' gauge ? first tentative steps. Corrugated goods shed part 3: Painting and weathering

[two tone green]

Nice one David. Your improvements do add to the unique character of this good looking loco.

 

I get my mitts on my green version on Monday.

[the penguin of doom]

I like this David.

 

Very nice indeed.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Warspite]

David

 

The Hymek really does look the business. Very nice work indeed. I must get some PHD steps for mine now ......

 

Nice job on the flush glazing as well. I had the same problem with the lights in mine - and don't talk to me about etched numbers .......

 

Stephen

 

[two tone green]

Hi David,

 

Was digging around inside my Easybuild 108 re-fix a seat that had come adrift and took some photos of my DCC sound installation which I thought you may find useful.

 

I have used the ESU Loksound V4 which copes with the motor in the ABC motor bogie quite well. Should be the same with the Easybuild one.

 

 

 

The Speaker is a SWD Bass Reflex Speaker as is the sound profile in the decoder which I find quite good. With the guards whistle and the buzzers between the guard and drive it really adds to the realism.

 

 

The decoder has the power module added and all wheels have pickups on them and there is a jumper between power cars so the Railcom signal is carried over both cars for train detection purposes but the jumper wont be of interest to you.

 

 

 

 

 

I have used mico two, three and four pin connectors so the bogies, including the motor bogie are removable. This I have found to be very useful.

 

Also added internal lighting. I did start off with DCC Concept flicker free but found them really quite poor and the flicker free unit cannot be controlled by ESU Loksound decoders so you cannot turn the lighting on and off. So I upgraded to the ESU coach lighting units and have found them to be very easy to install and easy to set up and fully controllable using the Loksound decoder. Also I substituted the tail light option for a cab light so I have passenger and driver compartment lighting each individually controllable. The lighting is warm white and can be dim via a pot on the circuit board and of course via the dimming option on the decoder. Its at the default level at the moment in the photos and will turn it down a tad when I have finished playing. The lighting strip can be easily cut to match the position of the roof retaining bolts and jumpers added around them to carrying the power over to the next bit of lighting strip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Put a coat of grey on the cab roof as well to act as a light barrier coat to stop bleed through caused by the head code lighting. What a pain the head codes are.

 

 

Anyway, hope you have as much fun building your 121 as I have my 108. Some day I will finish it !

[Allegheny1600]

Hi guys,

Some beautiful 0 gauge modelling going on here, I'm loving it!

Thanks for the inspirations.

John E.

[David Siddall]

Was digging around inside my Easybuild 108 re-fix a seat that had come adrift and took some photos of my DCC sound installation which I thought you may find useful ...hope you have as much fun building your 121 as I have my 108.

Thanks Andy, some useful photos which will certainly help.

 

I've just completed the 'new' motor bogie... and it runs, see below :-)

 

David

[David Siddall]

Here we go, today's task... complete the 'new improved' Easybuild DMU motor bogie which came with my 121. For those who've not seen one yet (or are more familiar with the previous version) I've taken photos throughout the sequence.

Comments are very much based on my inexpert attempts as a beginner and skilled practitioners should probably look away now ;-)



The three-part brass sub-frame – all the folds achieved with a steel rule and a Stanley blade. Comedy soldered bend reinforcement by you know who ;-)



Adding the side-frames and screw assembly of the sub-frame...



Wheelsets in... definitely a good idea to put a drop of oil in the bearings. The whole thing needed a couple of gentle twists before the wheels ran smoothly without binding. This 'improved' version features squared axle ends whereas the previous versions featured pin-points



Now this took a bit of head-scratching. There's a brass collar supplied – you'll see it in the previous pic' – which I guessed (no mention in the 'destructions') is supposed to support the motor. I soldered it into the lower sub-frame and whilst it held the motor clear of the two-part upper plates it also meant that these wouldn't stay flat when the motor retaining screws were tightened – cured by making two packing pads from plasticard through which the retaining screws now pass (see edit below).

 

• EDIT: I had a very prompt response to my email to Shawn at Easybuild telling him about this post. My guess about where what I thought was a brass collar (it's actually a top-hat washer!) should be located was wrong – it's actually one of the parts which connects the bogie to the body. He says "...it holds the bogie to the ally mount with the 4 mm cap screw". I'll remove it from its current incorrect location, re-seat the motor and try again. I've suggested that the instructions are amended to include a note about what it is and where it goes.
   
• EDIT: Removing the incorrectly installed top-hat bush and re-seating the motor down tight onto the brass sub-frame to five minutes (thanks to the new design). This 'fix' brought about an almost miraculous reduction in noise and an equally impressive improvement in smoothness! ​Easybuild are going to look at the supplementary instructions again to ensure no-one else has to guess what the bush is for.
   
• EDIT (30th Jan 2013): Easybuild are amending their instruction sheets and I've seen a first draft of the revised version. This clearly shows (courtesy of a new line drawing) that the 'top hat' bush goes into the bogie pivot hole from underneath. The revised instruction will be available to download from the EB website as soon as they're finalised :-)

And if you're trying this and you haven't got an appropriately tiny Allen key you might temporarily be at a bit of a loss – fortunately I was able to file an ancient watchmakers screwdriver of a similar size to a shape that would tighten the grub screws on the worm and the primary-drive gear :-/

• EDIT (30th Jan 2013): Shawn has emailed to say that he's sourcing a stock of appropriately sized Allen keys so they can be included in future motor-bogie packs.

I've put reverse bends in the ends of the pick-up wires where they meet the wheel backs to increase the contact area – I seem to recall that's how Hornby used to do it :-)



The pick-up wires taken to the motor by what seemed to be the 'simples' route.

 

• Edit: Having experimented with an example he's building for a customer Shawn from Easybuild has suggested removing the chemical blacking from the wheel treads to counter the occasional occasional 'starting' issues I experienced. This might also be an idea where the pick-up wires meet the wheel backs although it's likely that friction will do the job on it's own :-).

Use the chain Delhrin chain the length it's supplied and it flails around a bit ...but it works. If you try taking a link out it's just a fraction too short!



OK conclusions... yes it certainly is within the abilities of a beginner!

It does however sound a bit agricultural – a lot more of what I'm taking to be gear chatter than a fair few 7mm scale kit-built locos I've heard. Even after an hour running-in in both direction (and tweaking the position of the worm and gear several times) it's also noisier going backwards than it is going forwards. Up until I finally secured the worm (the last thing I did) it rolled silently and smoothly so I don't think it's an issue with the chassis :-/

The motor runs smoothly once its going and can maintain a walking pace – but unfortunately it 'sounds' like its surging and it annoyingly stalls from time to time on a slow start. I wondering whether there might be a very slight eccentricity somewhere in the geared wheelset?

 

• Edit: Now running infinitely quieter and more smoothly as a consequence of correcting the motor mount. See my latest progress report post for a suggested solution to the 'starting' issue.

David

 

PS: I'll be dropping Shawn an email in the morning so he can have a look at the above and hopefully he'll be able to advise about the 'noise and smoothness' issues.

 

• Edit: Shawn got back to me within a matter of hours with the solution to my first problem and has emailed back twice since with suggestions about improving pick-up and starting.
   
• Edit: See my latest progress report post for a description of Easybuild's superb customer service and my observations about the dramatically improved performance now the motor's mounted correctly :-)

[brian daniels]

That look really nice and I must admit I did not know ESU did those lighting strips, must look them up as I need something for my Thumper build.

[two tone green]

Hi David,

 

By way of a tip, run a M2 die down the spigots that hold the side frame onto the brass chassis and put some M2 nuts on them. It helps holds the side frames on when it all moves around and breaks the bond.

 

Looking good David. Will we be treated to a video of it running pre-installation into the 121.

 

Hi Brian, the lighting strips are thus.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/interior-lighting-sets/

 

I have used the 255mm version. Watch out, the longer one has a different set up with a combination of LED's white and yellow to set the hue. I have not played with one but I have read some negative feedback on them. Perhaps its because you cannot get the right colour tone for the period being modeled.

 

SWD sell them if you are interested in either version. So easy to install and have an optional stay alive capacitor to counter flicker but so far running in my 108 I have not seen any without the add on stay alive. There is already a built in capacitor and is evident when you lift the unit off the track and it takes a second for the lights to go out. So possibly the stay alive is not needed.

[David Siddall]

...a tip, run a M2 die down the spigots that hold the side frame onto the brass chassis and put some M2 nuts on them. It helps holds the side frames on when it all moves around and breaks the bond. Will we be treated to a video of it running pre-installation into the 121.

Thanks for that but an M2 die isn't something I could honestly say could be found lurking at the bottom of my tool box I'm afraid Andy. I also bonded the side-frames to the brass chassis so parting the two might be prejudicial to their general health and well-being.

 

And I think I'll wait and see what Shawn suggests re. muting it a bit before I think about video ;-)

 

D

[two tone green]

Is it a tad noisy by any chance?

[David Siddall]

Is it a tad noisy by any chance?

Well it's far from r-t-r quiet shall we put it like that? Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to afford the solution you went for for quite a while :-/

 

D

[two tone green]

I was a bit more than noise with my motor bogie that made me go for the ABC solution.

 

The performance of the Easybuid motor bogie was really not good. Stuttered, bumped, ground its way around the layout. Slow speed performance was unreliable as well so it was not run it or pay for a better solution.

 

Tim C made his own version of the ABC which runs well. Perhaps a few tips from him may help.

[daifly]

Thanks for the heads up re. Markits. Neither the their STD 4 buffers nor the Northants Model Railway Supplies buffers mentioned above feature the triangular reinforcements on the shank which I think should be on a 121. I'm wondering whether the buffers that I'm going to take off the Hymek (which are, apart from the slightly over-thick heads, actually rather nice) might form a basis? They are after all plastic and I might be able to add the reinforcements...?

 

In 7mm scale these details are really rather noticeable... back in 4-mil days I'd have probably accepted the relatively minor inaccuracy on the grounds that I could barely see it :-/

David

 

I'm slightly puzzled about these reinforcements. None of the photos that I have seen of the oval buffers seems to show them. They are certainly present on the later round buffers. Before I start construction of my 121, what makes you think that the buffer shanks should have them please?

 

Thanks, Dave

[TimC]

I've a couple of suspicions with regard to the performance with these EB bogies drives and they could both be wrong. I think that the axles rattle (ever so slightly) in the pin point bearings taking the gear in/out of mesh and that the motor mounting plate acts as sound board amplifying this and any other gear noise. I much prefer an arrangement with parallel bearings and a motor gearbox mounted directly onto the axle. The quality of the gearsets supplied maybe another source of the problem. I couldn't get it to work on my EB Cravens DMU so after seeing TTG's ABC unit I built my own.

 

See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/26839-timcs-7mm-br-blue-workbench-jltrt-br-cct/page-5

 

Obviously, you'll need an ABC or a Slaters 2 stage bogie gearbox drive but the other materials are just brass and some axle bearings. It'll take some time and patience to construct but no more than is required to build any kit - it took me less time to build a new motor bogie than it took me to get the roof/cab join blended/sorted on my Cravens! Personally, I've never had much joy with single stage gearboxes so I always go the extra and buy a 2 stage gearbox from ABC/Slaters or try and find an Escap RG7.

 

The unit I built fitted into the Cravens kit without any need for modifications, I'd be surprised if the Bubble car kit was any different. I suggest you continue with the build of the DMU and come back to the motor bogie at the end.

 

David it maybe not be what you want to hear but I'm just relaying my experience. If you want a blow by blow account of the bogie then PM me with your number and we'll go through it on the telephone.

[David Siddall]

I'm slightly puzzled about these reinforcements. None of the photos that I have seen of the oval buffers seems to show them. They are certainly present on the later round buffers. Before I start construction of my 121, what makes you think that the buffer shanks should have them please?

It's just a guess Dave, I'm finding prototype photos which show sufficient detail of the oval buffers fitted to the early 121s hard to find either on-line or in print. You could indeed be right so whichever of us finds the definitive answer will certainly be able to help the other :-)

 

David

[David Siddall]

I've a couple of suspicions with regard to the performance with these EB bogies drives and they could both be wrong. I think that the axles rattle (ever so slightly) in the pin point bearings taking the gear in/out of mesh and that the motor mounting plate acts as sound board amplifying this and any other gear noise..

Hi Tim, EB have eliminated pin-points from the 'improved' version of their motor bogie which is what came with my 121 and is shown in my photos. The axle ends are squared off and match the bearings pretty well. As I mentioned it ran smoothly and quietly until I secured the worm. My guess is that the mounting of the motor allows movement and that this effects the mesh of the gears, effectively allowing them to chatter.

 

I certainly admire your solution though scratch-building a new bogie isn't something I'm keen to try just yet. I'm going to run the noise issue past Shawn at EB first. If we can't work out a suitable solution maybe then I'll have a look at gearboxes that attach direct to the motor. My budget is pretty restricted and the overall kit price is (IMO) very reasonable, perhaps hoping for Rolls-Royce performance is a bit ambitious.  

 

David

[The Nth Degree]

Hello David, hope the build is going well.

 

I was at our club on Sunday - we were doing some clearing of the basement while our room is being redecorated and found a stack of Model Rail mags. One of them, dated April 2001 has a few pages dedicated to the 121; their history, liveries and various scale models available (at that time). I wondered if you wanted it? If you PM me your address I can post it to you, if you don't already have it.

Steve

[David Siddall]

Hey ho... Shawn (the proprietor of Easybuild) is very quick to respond to emails and immediately spotted an error in my motor bogie build. Perhaps the instructions might have been a bit more helpful bearing in mind the incorrectly installed part wasn't mentioned anywhere I could see but perhaps I should have asked rather than guessing. Shawn has pointed out that what I though was a motor mounting collar is actually a bogie mounting top-hat washer!

 

I've edited my step-by step post, quoting Shawn's comments, will sort the erroneous assembly ASAP and we'll see whether running and noise levels improve as a result. Good thing this new motor-bogie was designed to allow dismantling ;-)

 

David

[two tone green]

Hi David.

 

Interesting. Looking forward to hearing the outcome. No pun intended.

 

Does the kit have two aluminium round bushes, one for each end of the body floor to mount the bogies onto?

[two tone green]

Hello again David,

 

Got my hands on the green Hymek and it looks good. Will get a V4 XL decoder for it may be this week and see how it goes together. Not looked inside yet but don't expect too many problems.

 

Also was digging back in my posts and came up with this that may be of help. Yes its for a 108 but the principles are the same. Also you can see the old motor bogie arrangement.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/26941-andy-siddalls-easy-build-workbench/

[David Siddall]

Does the kit have two aluminium round bushes, one for each end of the body floor to mount the bogies onto?

 

Indeed it does Andy... everything apart from the motor bogie appears unchanged.

 

Also was digging back in my posts and came up with this that may be of help. Yes its for a 108 but the principles are the same. Also you can see the old motor bogie arrangement. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/26941-andy-siddalls-easy-build-workbench/

 

Thanks for the link to my namesake's thread, no relation and a far more accomplished modeler – I've noted his very handy tip for securing the windows involving the use of wooden clothes pegs!)

 

The difference between the 'old' motor bogie and the 'new' is very apparent from his pic's and mine. I suspect it was challenging (nigh on impossible) to get the old one apart once assembled. To correct my cock-up all I need to do is release 4 nuts and two screws :-)

 

D

 

PS: Great news about your Hymek. Just a tip though... go gently when you take the body off, replace it or try anything within. The marker light stems are very fragile and can snap if you unwittingly catch them (or for that matter their wiring). How do I know? Yup, that's how :-(

[two tone green]

Hi David,

 

With regards the bushes, does your 121 still have the clash issue with the new motor bogie and the bushes. You have to file one back so the motor does not rub up against it.

 

The other thing is, my 108 can wobble or list to one side and its due to the small surface area of the bogie bearing surface against the bigger bush surface area. The alan key screws need to be tight, not tight tight but tight enough to allow easy rotational movement with a small gap to allow some tilt to compensate for uneven track. Not that you will have any with your expertly hand built track.

 

Most of the weight is below floor level due to the tons of weight metal that you will attach down there but it is not always evenly distributed so it can list or even get a wobble on if it runs at  reasonable speed. I wont be as noticeable on a single car as in the 121 but with two or more car set it is as your eye is drawn to the difference in buffer heights, roof alignment between cars and it simply does not look right.

 

Also watch out for bogie clearance when they swing due to the position of the fuel tanks. If you have tight curves or think you may run it on a layout with tight curves, move the tanks back a bit from the bogies and check clearance.

 

As for dismantling the old motor bogie, if you had used the M2 die and nuts it comes apart as easily as your new one.

 

Not in the mood for taking the top off the Hymek but is on the to do list for tomorrow. I will certainly take note of your comments and gently ease its top off to gaze at its tantalizing exposed innards. Its been one of those days. Sorry.

 

Have fun, keep us posted with photos etc as to your progress.

[David Siddall]

Result...! Whilst my Easybuild 121 motor bogie isn't quite running like a sewing machine yet it's not far off at slow-to-medium speeds. Re-seating the motor took five minutes and not only is it several hundred percent quieter but it's actually exhibiting a degree of over-run on DC even without a flywheel fitted! I'm mightily impressed and hugely grateful to Shawn from EB for his prompt responses. To give it the best possible chance to perform well on 'Little shuffling on the Plank' I'm going to give it at least another hour running-in in both directions with some white grease on the worm and gear wheel (the split gear I took off the Hymek and kept for posterity is liberally daubed in the stuff ;-)

 

After a bit of experimenting Shawn has also recommended removing some of the chemical 'blacking' from the wheels to improve starting – I'm going to polish the treads/flanges back to bare metal. The man is an absolute star – 11 out of 10 for customer service and at least 9.5 out of 10 for the new motor-bogie design :-)

 

David

[two tone green]

Yes, 100% sound advise about the blackening. If you put pickups on the other bogies running on the back face of the wheel this needs similar treatment. Its a no go if you dont.