Bacup - Mills in the hills

[Physicsman]

Jason, thanks for the info on Jam's thread (The Old Road) re. SMP etc. I will bear that in mind and I'll probably use cork or equivalent (3mm) anyway. Interesting about the Copydex. I'd never thought about using it until I entered into some correspondence with Kenton. May consider that, too, though sound deadening doesn't worry me when I'm running in the "bunker".

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

I've been a bit quiet of late, firstly because I was in Malaga for a week and secondly because from a layout perspective, all I have been doing is ballasting, ballasting and more bloody ballasting. And I *still* haven't finished.

 

But, I have got as far as I currently can with Board 2, as I am yet to extend the sidings onto board 3 and I am also not sure what to surface the goods yard with (stone setts or ash ballast, most likely). As for board 3, I have made a start and will have that (at least the main tracks) done tomorrow I reckon. Once all this has been completed, I should finally be able to actually bolt all the boards down and commence on the scenery, including the massive expanse at the back corner of the layout which is just crying out to be stuffed to the gills with grotty old mills and filthy terraced houses, although there may just be a tiny bit of greenery in there as well, to break up the greys, browns and blacks that currently dominate the layout.

 

At some point, I'll need to dirty up the ash ballast as it looks a bit too clean at the moment. I presume (from looking at photos of various locations) that in the late 50's and early 60's, that PWay departments took a lot more pride in their work than afterwards as there doesn't seem to be too many weeds, etc., sprouting through. Anyone remember if Bacup in the early 60's was well kept, especially in the goods yard? Photos from '66 show the whole place (including hte platform) to be a jungle.

 

Anyway, as always, here are a few photos. For the turnouts set in ash ballast, I have had to add about five layers to get the depth looking something like; frustrating when you are doing it by painting in a thinned mix of glue but hopefully worth the effort.

 

Just about all the area ballasted to date:

 

Ash ballast in the sidings, fresh ballast on the running lines, and the cess beyond

 

Honestly, it's driven me potty

[lash]

I have been watching this thread for months and this is lovely stuff, the track looks brilliant with non scale boulder sized ballast.

 

I know Bacup a bit and the terraces are just right.

 

I have mixed feelings about Copydex and have never really used it successfully. I used it to stick cork sheet to the baseboard on Portsea Town (soon to be awarded the prize the layout with the slowest progress on RMWeb ) after unsatisfactory experience of using PVA for this on my previous layout, but it seemed to lack stickiness which is a pretty useful property in an adhesive . For scenic stuff and ground cover the Woodland Scenics products are very good

 

I have been watching this thread for months and this is lovely stuff, the track looks brilliant with non scale boulder sized ballast.

 

I know Bacup a bit and the terraces are just right.

 

I have mixed feelings about Copydex and have never really used it successfully. I used it to stick cork sheet to the baseboard on Portsea Town (soon to be awarded the prize the layout with the slowest progress on RMWeb ) after unsatisfactory experience of using PVA for this on my previous layout, but it seemed to lack stickiness which is a pretty useful property in an adhesive . For scenic stuff and ground cover the Woodland Scenics products are very good

 

Sorry my comments were so profound I repeated myself

[Jason T]

I have to admit that it's not the stickiest of glues and can be a bit annoying when it goes stringy, but it seems to be holding the ballast fine and when you take into consideration that it's not soaked in but ballast glued on top (as it were) and has passed the powerful vacuum cleaner test, it's passed with flying colours and the whole trackbed is still satisfyingly springy to the touch.

 

Back to the awkward shaped mill next; it'll be a relief to be doing something I am more comfortable with.

[Physicsman]

Come on Jason, I bet all you did in Malaga was dream of all the ballasting that awaited you when you got back to Blighty!

 

Seriously, the time you are putting in is reaping dividends. Good stuff!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Mythocentric]

Ballasting. Don't you just love it! I've just finished laying the station throat on my new urban layout (13 turnouts including two 3-ways and a single slip) and, quite frankly, the prospect of ballasting that lot terrifies me! I've tried listening to Hawkwind for the usual brain-deadening effect, but sadly to no avail. Those GWR branch termini are beginning to look very inviting! Or there again, I could just sit here and watch this thread instead!

[2ManySpams]

Read the whole thread last night and this morning. Some great work Sandside and really good to see a layout which doesn't belong to the flat earth and everything parallel to the board edges school. I think this will be a RMweb classic and I'm sure Mr York will have it bookmarked for a MI in the future. The only thing I would change would be the vibrancy of the doors on the terrace and the green cornershop. To me colour fades with distance and it would look better duller and washed out. A very minor observation. Carry on the great work.

[Jason T]

Cheers for the positive comments folks. I agree about the colour of the doors, etc., they are a bit too bright and glossy and even a coating of matt varnish hasn't dulled it down enough - it's on my list of things to do, to get them looking better.

 

As mentioned yesterday, I've had enough of ballasting for the time being and have instead been working on the low relief mill for the back of Board one. Windows are in and I have made a start on glueing the structure together. As you will see, the construction looks a bit odd with the rear wall not being at the back of the building. This is to allow the roof to be attached, as it needs to be cut to match the eaves of the attic roof; the back wall is pretty much at the limit of where the angles need to be to take the eaves into consideration (if you see what I mean). Also, I have started to add cross-beams in to support the roof structure itself, as well as ensuring that everything is kept solid enough.

 

The pics are taken in a strange order; the ones with the building in place on the layout were taken before the ones where I am adding the cross beams. Confused? Me too

 

 

 

(wall is just leaned up for the moment, hence the wonky angle)

 

 

 

Next task is to work out the angle of the eaves vs the angle of the roof vs the angle of the building. It may all go horribly wrong.....

[Jason T]

An update already. I have got the roof formers on and it wasn't as difficult as I imagined. The aren't perfect but they are good enough. The only slight issue is that on the narrower side (the side that the operator will view from), the building doesn't sit flush against the back wall but I will find a way to disguise that). Now it's time to start cutting the dreaded slates again.

 

 

[Physicsman]

Jason, this may seem a really simple question, but to a "building non-scratchbuider" (soon to be initiated!!), how do you make the windows... is it thin strips of Plasticard onto clear acetate?

 

Your last set of buildings is very effective and the brick colour is spot-on.

 

Jeff

Edited June 29, 2012 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

Hi Jeff,

 

yep, the windows are from microstrip. Clear Plastikard is glued to the inside of the wall and then the microstrip is glued (carefully) onto this, on the exterior of the building, obviously

 

I use Vitalbond superglue (it cures clear; it says to on the bottle), putting a wee bit on an old scrap of card and then with a cocktail stick, wipe a tiny amount onto the underside of the microstrip. I then place one edge of the microstrip in the corner of where I want it to be and gently press it down along the length of it with the scalpel blade and when I am at the point I want to reach, I cut the strip and press the end down. For the central bars, etc., I measure up on the inside and gently score across the clear plastikard so that I have a line to work from.

 

It's not perfect as sometimes the strip will lift, sometimes you end up cutting too short, etc., but it's the best way I have found to do it although I am sure there are far better ways. I do know that some people glue the central bars on different sides of the glass, e.g. horizontal on the outside and vertical on the inside, to avoid having to make as many cuts, etc. My buildings are so close to the front of the layout, however, that I reckon it would stand out like a sore thumb. I sometimes wish I'd had the patience to actually build up the relief of the sash windows - I actually did with a couple (the houses with the bay windows; one of them has an open window which took ages to do).

[Physicsman]

That's excellent, many thanks. I'm buiding up a knowledge-base from yourself and one or two others, which is really helpful. Better than any book you could buy! I'm quite happy with the joinery, boards and electrics, but I've usually used RTP buidings. I've already got an inkling of an idea for a small layout to be built at a parallel time with Kirkby Luneside that'll let me have a play with constructing buildings. So your input is great.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[60091]

Hi Jason

Going back a couple of posts I noticed that you build up your windows using the same method as myself...however, I was very interested to see that you use superglue

.I've never seen..or maybe may have overlooked Vitalbond. Do you have a photo of the bottle/tube? I use liquid poly but would prefere to use superglue. However every superglue that I've used on or even near clear plasticard has left a film similar to condensation on the "glass". I assume you don't have this problem with the Vitalbond?

 

Eventually I've got to make a start again in 4mm. There'll be a lot of structures to scratchbuild and I am looking forward to experimenting with your method of colouring and weathering stone and brickwork...It's a method I've never thought of using before and the work you've produced using this technique looks very impressive.

 

Having seen your trackwork ballasted I also wish I had the courage to move on from Peco!

[Jason T]

Hi, no problems whatsoever.

 

I buy it from Howes in Kidlington (although they say they're in Oxford in their adverts, they're not - would be easier for me if they were). I did use liquid poly on a few of the earlier buildings (including the station and the canopy) but was never that impressed as it didn't really seem to stick microstrip to clear plastikard too well and if you made a mistake, it left a milky residue that was a swine to clean up.

 

The Vitalbond glue does occasionally leave a white, dusty residue but this is very easily removed - I give any affected windows a quick polish with the end of a blunt cocktail stick and that does the job fine. Also, although it says 10 seconds to cure (which doesn't sound long at all really), it does seem to take slightly longer and therefore gives a bit of room for manouvre, plus there are other formulas that take longer if required.

 

 

As for track, I find myself looking at the fantastic turnouts that many on here have built using chairs, etc., and wish I had gone down that route, although I'm happy enough for now. I did nearly buy a box full of hand-made EM turnouts from Chris (?) at C&L for 25 quid the other week but then came to my senses and realised that it would just end up cluttering my attic rather than his.....

[Physicsman]

Hi, no problems whatsoever.

 

I buy it from Howes in Kidlington (although they say they're in Oxford in their adverts, they're not - would be easier for me if they were). I did use liquid poly on a few of the earlier buildings (including the station and the canopy) but was never that impressed as it didn't really seem to stick microstrip to clear plastikard too well and if you made a mistake, it left a milky residue that was a swine to clean up.

 

The Vitalbond glue does occasionally leave a white, dusty residue but this is very easily removed - I give any affected windows a quick polish with the end of a blunt cocktail stick and that does the job fine. Also, although it says 10 seconds to cure (which doesn't sound long at all really), it does seem to take slightly longer and therefore gives a bit of room for manouvre, plus there are other formulas that take longer if required.

 

 

As for track, I find myself looking at the fantastic turnouts that many on here have built using chairs, etc., and wish I had gone down that route, although I'm happy enough for now. I did nearly buy a box full of hand-made EM turnouts from Chris (?) at C&L for 25 quid the other week but then came to my senses and realised that it would just end up cluttering my attic rather than his.....

 

More useful information...good stuff. I note the copious quantities of cocktail sticks (tooth-picks!!) in the background. Indicative of the amount of scratchbuilding you do (you said they were useful glue-applicators) or the number of parties you have?

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

 

ps Thanks for convincing me to change the second of my viaducts to a curved format. You were right!

Edited June 30, 2012 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

Do us Cumbrians ever do cocktail parties? I don't even drink wine as I think it is a bit girly

Edited June 30, 2012 by Sandside

[Physicsman]

Do us Cumbrians ever do cocktail parties? I don't even drink wine as I think it is a bit girly

 

Speak for yourself!! Must say, I'm quite partial to a bottle of Sauvignon...

 

If I might ask, have you built many layouts prior to this, and did any previous ones involve so much scratchbuilding? Or was Bacup an idea that came to mind, accepting that you were going to have to make a lot of buildings? My S&C is quite the opposite, with virtually no buildings, but the warehouses and rows of habitable dwellings have an equivalent effect - they make me want to have a go.

 

Anyway, back to the Chardonnay. It's a tough life! Now, where's me Guinness?

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

Other than a couple of layouts I had when I was a kid (neither of which had any scratchbuilt buildings at all), the only previous layout I have built as an adult was the one previous to this, started almost five years ago and scrapped last summer: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/22666-moor-road-1960s-in-the-nw/

 

On that, I did have a few scratchbuilt buildings but the quality of them ranged from poor to okay, mainly dictated by when I built them. I don't think I can use any on this layout as they are either not really fit for Bacup and/or because they were built to fit awkward locations (e.g. against walls at angles, etc). Maybe they will see use again in the future, if not by me then by someone else who is interested in taking them.

 

Here (on the left) is the first thing I built; an odd shaped shed / cafe thing that I used to get my head around plastikard, etc.

 

This was followed by a large goods shed. I would have gone RTP but they all looked a tad small. Bizarrely, I cut each slate out individually and glued them on, because I didn't know you could get pre-formed slates. A few of the windows don't have windows / sills, the roof is warped and it doesn't follow any prototype building; it was completely freeform (and it shows)

 

A couple of factories, one using pre-printed windows salvaged from another factory building that I was given when I was about 14, linked to a 'boiler room' that has completely different window styles. The other was a backscene filler and is just weird looking:

 

I was quite chuffed with this warehouse, which sat on a platform. I took a fair bit of time and learned quite a bit whilst constructing and painting it, with help from people on here

 

My pride and joy (at the time) was the station building which was very loosely based on one on the Skipton - Carnforth line (although built in brick rather than stone, and with a make-believe canopy added)

 

All great for learning, but I'd like to think I have progressed

[Physicsman]

Yes, I think plenty of practise has refined your technique, Jason.

 

I'm starting to research the buiding of the curved viaducts. Not quite terraces, but I can see it may take a few attempts to get the details correct!

 

Jeff

Edited June 30, 2012 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

Not much of an update but I have got the roof on the mill and the first coat of paint. Needs a second coat and then weathering, the stonework (especially at the edges) needs touching up and then I can add downpipes, etc.

 

Oh, and I did a bit more ballasting.

 

 

 

[Jason T]

And here is the next project, once again for the backscene behind the carriage siding.I have been scouring Bacup using Google Maps (Streetview) to find a suitable low industrial building that will fit under the eaves, look old enough and not look out of place. I did think about a tin shed but then changed my mind when I couldn't find anything that looked suitable or old enough.

 

And then I stumbled on this 'beauty', the end on view of a set of Northlight units where the wall onto the alleyway had been levelled off. Small enough but still imposing.

 

What I like about it and what I hope to capture is the way that you can make out the outline of the northlight units on the other side of the wall, the knackered rendering, the moss at the bottom, the rusting downpipes seemingly appearing from the middle of a wall (at first glance), etc. If I achieve anything that looks like this, I'm going to need to get very handy with Milliput and painting / weathering. Another beauty of it is that I don't even have to spend a great deal of effort in adding the glazing, as most of it will be hidden from view.

 

The real thing - just look at it

 

Cutting out some card to test it (although this may become the finished article)

 

Cutting out the plastikard. The top sections haven't been trimmed down yet.

[Jason T]

Gaps in the wall between plastikard and microstrip? Doesn't matter

 

I like this one already

[Jason T]

I have no idea whether this is going to work or not but I have plastered Milliput all over the lower section of the wall, rather unevenly. When it dries, I'll then sand it back and scribe out some of the stonework to give the impression of blown and knackered rendering, before starting to paint it up. If it doesn't work then hey ho, all I've lost is a sheet of plastikard, some cardboard and a bit of milliput.

 

 

[Physicsman]

The last photos sum up what is good about the way you work: have a go, experiment and sod it if it doesn't work out right. Great approach, Jason. I think it will work and look very realistic once painted.

In the past I'm sure I've been far too cautious about trying certain things - hence my reluctance to scratchbuild. Soon I'll have a lot more time on my hands, so it's worth having a go. Think I'll invent a small, second layout just to try out a few ideas.

Keep the pics coming!

Cheers,

Jeff

[tetsudofan]

Jason, this is one of my favourite threads - just love seeing everything developing in front of us.

 

Look forward to seeing the Britannia Coconutters being modelled in due course - with background music playing from time to time. Great.

 

Keith