Watford Finescale Model Railway Exhibition 2012

[Baby Deltic]

I went to the show today with Jim Connor. Jim did a talk on the railways around Stratford. A nice mix of layouts and a thoroughly enjoyable show. My only regret was spending too much money as usual.

[chrisf]

In some past years I have wondered what definition of finescale the organisers were using when selecting the layouts. Not this year! I was impressed both with the choice of layouts and the high standard of trade support. Like Baby Deltic I spent far too much but at least I now have two books that I have been after for ages. This year Jim Connor's lecture was not interrupted by the fire alarm, only by the sound of very heavy rain at the end. The catering was very reasonable, with tea at a sensible 70p and one of my weaknesses, bread pudding!

 

I ws very taken with the horses with working legs on the Dougal Trams layout. The creator of the show, the late Martin Brent, was well known for his animations and would have approved wholeheartedly. I'm a bit miffed at having missed Jon020's fine Deltic on Portchullin though.

 

Chris

[Pacific231G]

Very good show this year. I only really went to see Courcelle Part again but found a lot more to inspire me. With Horsley Bank I thought Stephen Howe used the proscenium approach particularly effectively and really captured the feel of that sort of industrial area. I'd seen Tower Pier once before but had more chance to chat with Geoff Ashdown today and really liked the idea of a layout built from the point of view of the signalman. Though I've seen both of them several times before Larkford and Reedham End really showed what can be done in a small space without looking crowded and I also spent quite a lot of time enjoying Portchullin.

 

What I really liked about the show was that people had time to discuss their layouts at length without the constant pressure of a general exhibition to keep something moving to amuse the public though that did make me late for Jim Connor's talk on railways around Stratford.

It's open again tomorrow so if you get the chance I'd recommend going.

 

David

[Gee Vee]

Thoroughly enjoyed visit yesterday. A varied mix of layouts, good trade support and friendly people. Well done to all involved in the organisation.

 

First time I'd got to the show since its relaunch. Unlike old venue, no diving outside in the cold between halls!!

 

Gee Vee

[dd_uk]

We haven't dived between halls in the pouring rain since 2006! Just shows how bad images linger in the mind. And Reedham End was last exhibited in 2004 which shows how much good things linger even more in the mind. It's about time the layout had some more exposure.

 

Thank you all for your wonderful comments. It takes a lot of miles and a lot of effort to produce an exhibition like that. Can someone please explain how our attendance fell by a little over 22%.

 

David

[edcayton]

It was a cracking show, and many thanks to all involved. I suspect that the drop in attendance is due to people pulling their horns in because of the current economic uncertainty.

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

 

Thank you all for your wonderful comments. It takes a lot of miles and a lot of effort to produce an exhibition like that. Can someone please explain how our attendance fell by a little over 22%.

David

I wonder if it might have had anything to do with the number of shows which were on last Saturday - not all direct competition of course, not all immediately local to Watford either but then some folk are still prepared to travel a fair distance to a show (which might mean they aren't going to another)?

[Grovenor]

Sorry to hear of the drop in attendance, it seemed quite congested when I arrived just before Saturday lunch but I admit it did seem to get noticeably quieter before I left. I enjoyed my visit and would recommend it. As to reasons. could be allsorts, economic situation, promises of adverse weather, too many shows, all of the above, take your pick.

Best regards

Keith

[Horsetan]

.....Can someone please explain how our attendance fell by a little over 22%.

 

Unfortunately, I was commandeered to feed lambs and chop logs this weekend somewhere near Hemel Hempstead.

 

I can't speak for the other missing 21.78%, though.

[edcayton]

B***** grafitti gets everywhere now

 

Ed

[Horsetan]

B***** grafitti gets everywhere now

 

We're working on spraypainting barcodes now.

[chrisf]

We're working on spraypainting barcodes now.

 

Baa codes, surely?

 

I'll get me fleece coat ...

 

Chris

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Can someone please explain how our attendance fell by a little over 22%.

 

David

 

I was not able to make it to the show this year as it was our own clubs Risborough (Risex) exhibition on the Saturday, I planned to go on the Sunday but having felt a bit under the weather all week felt it best to give the show a miss to fully recover, This first time I have not been to Watford Show for around 15-20 years.

With Milton Keynes show on the Saturday too, maybe there was a split on visitors over the three shows that were all in the same catchment area, although Risex was up on numbers and it seems according to the Milton Keynes show thread this show was busy too, so not too sure why your numbers were down.

David

[Kenton]

<p>

It takes a lot of miles and a lot of effort to produce an exhibition like that. Can someone please explain how our attendance fell by a little over 22%.

 

David

It takes a lot of miles and effort for the punter too.

 

Just like several others, I was overwhelmed by the number of shows available to me this weekend - no less than 8 shows competing for my attendance. It would have been a show that I would have attended but have to admit the last minute and unfortunate drop out of Judith Edge kits (get well soon Mike) finally swung my decision in favour of Shepton Mallet at the opposite side of my distance circle.

 

I know for some this may no have been an equal distance option but I also saw many RMWebbers at Shepton that otherwise would have expected at Watford. Then there was Milton Keynes not very distant. Tonbridge also a a popular show.

 

It always bugs me when such shows clash as it just goes to illustrate there is no thought going into the date planning. OK venue is a problem but I still believe no thought whatsoever is given to other shows that may pull in the punter. No country wide co-ordination in this electronic communication era. The club's are inward thinking.

 

Now I don't care if there is a show in York or Glasgow on the same day as say Watford but to go weeks with no show available to attend then to have 8 "nearby" on the same day! This isn't just a Southern problem it would be just as bad as having Leeds, York, Bradford, Sheffield and others on the same day and lived in Harrogate.

 

Other factors that may play a part are advertising (making punters aware of show content ad venue, doing it early and keeping it visible); cost (the distance to drive to some of these shows is getting more expensive, add parking or lack of, the trade or lack of); weather (obviously no within the clubs' control, but planning for it might help. Simple things like being able to get the car out of the muddy field, having a cloakroom to safely deposit wet clothing, rucksacks ...); the choice of layouts or lack of (can't lay this one at Watford's door, though they didn't appeal as much to me as last year's, they were still an excellent selection).

 

In truth I wish I had picked Watford, not that Shepton was remarkably disappointing, just that Watford would have been more of expected, a comfort zone. But far more important, I wish I had never been forced to make the decision of which of 8 shows to go to.

[ColinW]

<p>It takes a lot of miles and effort for the punter too.

 

Just like several others, I was overwhelmed by the number of shows available to me this weekend - no less than 8 shows competing for my attendance. It would have been a show that I would have attended but have to admit the last minute and unfortunate drop out of Judith Edge kits (get well soon Mike) finally swung my decision in favour of Shepton Mallet at the opposite side of my distance circle.

 

I know for some this may no have been an equal distance option but I also saw many RMWebbers at Shepton that otherwise would have expected at Watford. Then there was Milton Keynes not very distant. Tonbridge also a a popular show.

 

It always bugs me when such shows clash as it just goes to illustrate there is no thought going into the date planning. OK venue is a problem but I still believe no thought whatsoever is given to other shows that may pull in the punter. No country wide co-ordination in this electronic communication era. The club's are inward thinking.

 

Now I don't care if there is a show in York or Glasgow on the same day as say Watford but to go weeks with no show available to attend then to have 8 "nearby" on the same day! This isn't just a Southern problem it would be just as bad as having Leeds, York, Bradford, Sheffield and others on the same day.

 

Other factors that may play a part are advertising (making punters aware of show content ad venue, doing it early and keeping it visible); cost (the distance to drive to some of these shows is getting more expensive, add parking or lack of, the trade or lack of); weather (obviously no within the clubs' control, but planning for it might help. Simple things like being able to get the car out of the muddy field, having a cloakroom to safely deposit wet clothing, rucksacks ...); the choice of layouts or lack of (can't lay this one at Watford's door, though they didn't appeal as much to me as last year's, they were still an excellent selection).

 

In truth I wish I had picked Watford, not that Shepton was remarkably disappointing, just that Watford would have been more of expected, a comfort zone. But far more important, I wish I had never been forced to make the decision of which of 8 shows to go to.

 

As a member of the Tonbridge MRC and club secretary, can I just say that when I last went to Watford, when it was in November and heard that they were moving their show date to February I was concerned that it may have affected our show attendance as well. We have used the same weekend for all of our 31 shows, originally we didn't want to clash with the Carshalton & Sutton MRC show at Leatherhead on the last weekend of February, but found we could cope with being up against the Brighton Modelworld show that would also normally have been this weekend as well.

 

Colin

[Kenton]

I'll add it is not all about making a particular weekend the sole ownership of any particular club. Also in some circumstances it may well be a benefit for a small club to be on the same day as a big speciality show (and example may be a small club show in Bracknell on the same day as ExpoEM in Bracknell) So I do not see Brighton - predominantly an engineering show clashing with Tonbridge. Where as Watford definitely does, even though it might be the other side of the M25.

 

It will probably never be possible to avoid some conflict but in this day and age I expect a little more coordination. So start thinking about 2013 or even 2014 what other show within 150-200 miles is going to coincide and do they / can they complement or do they compete?

[Nickey Line]

I spent a very pleasurable Sunday afternoon here, but was surprised at the notable lack of people. I thought overall the expo was a much better standard than last year, which I found somewhat disappointing. I particularly enjoyed Ackthorpe, Horsley Bank, Tower Pier and Portchullin, though there were many other excellent layouts. Managed a quick chat with Mark Tatlow (Portchullin Tatty of this parish) while he was taking in some of the other exhibits, though I neglected to introduce myself; sorry Mark!

I can't see how adverse weather conditions could be blamed for a lack of attendance as has been suggested, as it was clear, sunny and for mid Feb relatively warm...

[bbishop]

A number of shows are tied to a specific weekend. I was an exhibition manager using school premises and was tied to one of the six end of term / half-term weekends. I didn't want to use the Christmas or summer weekends, Tonbridge had the Lent half-term and Epsom the Easter break so that just left me with the Michaelmas half-term. Maybe it was infuriating that Tonbridge, in council premises, were "blocking" a potential weekend but - heck - they have kept to that weekend for 31 years and counting, so they are entitled to keep it.

 

It is just infuriating that I normally have a prior engagement on the third Saturday of February and do wish that Tonbridge would make it a two day show.

 

Bill

[David Bigcheeseplant]

As has been pointed out before getting a date that works in for the available venues and does not clash is a difficult task, our Risex show has been on the same week for thirty years although is a small family show rather than a finescale show so is aimed at a different market, but being part of the organising club I don’t think it would go down well if I went to Watford on the Saturday, which just leaves me with the Sunday. Normally a show like Watford there would be a few members of our club who would go along but if you have spent a day playing train on the Saturday with your own exhibition then getting a pass out on the Sunday to go to another show can be a bit hard if you have other commitments within the household! I did have permission to go last weekend but as I felt unwell decided to relax in the house, although at least four members of our club may have attended if there was not a clash.

 

Watford in November was better for me but I guess was close to Warley, for some reason that I can’t put my finger on I also preferred the Tolpits Lane venue.

 

I do like Watford, but found a few layouts last year did not fit in with what I consider my finescale window, this was also a view shared by a few others I have spoken to, I understand the layouts this year were all of a high standard, although it only takes a one year for a visitor to decide if the show does not tick all their boxes that they may well question going back the following year. I must admit there are a few shows I have regularly attended that have disappointed me over the last couple of years and I will possibly question going to in future, but Watford is not one of them.

 

David

[ColinW]

A number of shows are tied to a specific weekend. I was an exhibition manager using school premises and was tied to one of the six end of term / half-term weekends. I didn't want to use the Christmas or summer weekends, Tonbridge had the Lent half-term and Epsom the Easter break so that just left me with the Michaelmas half-term. Maybe it was infuriating that Tonbridge, in council premises, were "blocking" a potential weekend but - heck - they have kept to that weekend for 31 years and counting, so they are entitled to keep it.

 

It is just infuriating that I normally have a prior engagement on the third Saturday of February and do wish that Tonbridge would make it a two day show.

 

Bill

 

Bill, you know exactly the reason as to why we do a one-day show, as everytime you see me you suggest the same thing and get the same answer. To answer Kenton's remark earlier, the Tonbridge show for next year is February 16th and in 2014 it will probably be the 15th February, and like most shows nowadays we have to start planning up to 18 months in advance, so that we can book layouts that we would like to have at our show.

 

Colin

[Kenton]

I can't see how adverse weather conditions could be blamed for a lack of attendance as has been suggested, as it was clear, sunny and for mid Feb relatively warm...

 

That depends on where you were and which year you attend. It was a general comment about any show's dropping attendance. Watford has a bit of a history of wet weather and although it may have been dry this year .. last year was not good. That car park in the field is death to cars when the grass is wet. Oh and in Shepton Mallet I got drenched! But again no thought to soggy visitors. I wouldn't have minded a simple 20p cloakroom ticket to get out of a wet coat rather than dripping all over the show.

[Nickey Line]

That depends on where you were and which year you attend. It was a general comment about any show's dropping attendance. Watford has a bit of a history of wet weather and although it may have been dry this year .. last year was not good. That car park in the field is death to cars when the grass is wet. Oh and in Shepton Mallet I got drenched! But again no thought to soggy visitors. I wouldn't have minded a simple 20p cloakroom ticket to get out of a wet coat rather than dripping all over the show.

 

Seems to me Grovenor's original remark was specific to Watford, and this year in particular, though I concede that the weather on Saturday afternoon was not the greatest.

[Kenton]

To answer Kenton's remark earlier, the Tonbridge show for next year is February 16th and in 2014 it will probably be the 15th February, and like most shows nowadays we have to start planning up to 18 months in advance, so that we can book layouts that we would like to have at our show.

 

I know that and so does every other show manager - but sometimesmost of the time I don't think show managers talk to each other before they say "we are having that weekend in the calendar". It also has the side effect of reducing the number of layouts and trade available. Most traders can only attend one show at a time and have to balance where with how much profit is in it for them. The more shows the less variety of trade and possible lower standard of layouts.

 

Also we need to be clear is the decline in numbers a decline from the highs of last year or a real decline in general? Although raised in this thread specific to Watford, it is/could be a concern to others. There is perhaps only a finite number of punters out there and ignoring for a moment their desires from a show is likely to quickly lead to disappointment. As David says above, it takes only one bad show experience to turn a punter away and if there is a wide choice of shows on the same day then they are more likely to stray. I wanted to attend Tunbridge, Watford and Risex and have attend each of them in the past. None of them have been particularly bad (though I have had minor issues with each over the years), but equally none of them have made them unmissable over the competition. Given that I spend £250-£500 (average) per show I attend, and attend typically 20 shows a year, I would have thought that I would know at the start of the year which shows are in my calendar. Other than ExpoEM, Railex and Reading Trade shows there isn't the full calendar there should be.

[Nickey Line]

... I spend £250-£500 (average) per show I attend, and attend typically 20 shows a year...

 

Blimey! £5,000 - £10,000 per year! You must have a MONSTER layout! Or several monster layouts...

[ColinW]

I know that and so does every other show manager - but sometimesmost of the time I don't think show managers talk to each other before they say "we are having that weekend in the calendar". It also has the side effect of reducing the number of layouts and trade available. Most traders can only attend one show at a time and have to balance where with how much profit is in it for them. The more shows the less variety of trade and possible lower standard of layouts.

 

Also we need to be clear is the decline in numbers a decline from the highs of last year or a real decline in general? Although raised in this thread specific to Watford, it is/could be a concern to others. There is perhaps only a finite number of punters out there and ignoring for a moment their desires from a show is likely to quickly lead to disappointment. As David says above, it takes only one bad show experience to turn a punter away and if there is a wide choice of shows on the same day then they are more likely to stray. I wanted to attend Tunbridge, Watford and Risex and have attend each of them in the past. None of them have been particularly bad (though I have had minor issues with each over the years), but equally none of them have made them unmissable over the competition. Given that I spend £250-£500 (average) per show I attend, and attend typically 20 shows a year, I would have thought that I would know at the start of the year which shows are in my calendar. Other than ExpoEM, Railex and Reading Trade shows there isn't the full calendar there should be.

 

I too attend about 20+ shows a year, and when we look at our date for our show, we have to consider what shows our more local to us than Watford, January (St.Albans, Canterbury, Erith), February (Brighton Modelworld and what used to be Leatherhead), March (Basingstoke, Alexandra Palace), April (Crawley, Epsom, East Grinstead), June (Chatham), August (Bexhill), September (Fort Pitt, Scaleforum), October (Folkestone, Croydon, Farnham, Uckfield, Beckenham, Swanley ExpoNG), November (Tolworth, Warley). May, July, & December are months that can be affected by holidays. Now we do our best to try and co-ordinate with a lot of these clubs, either by checking websites, show flyers or even general contact at shows. Perhaps if the Watford organizers had checked what shows were on when they decided to change to February (ironically because they said November was a very congested time) then they may not have picked this specific weekend.

 

Colin