Sweeps Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 There seems to be two seperate groups now trying to rebuild part of the Glyn Valley Tramway and from someone on the sideline it looks like a sad state when efforts are divided and arguments have resulted in a falling out. I understand one group wishes to only rebuild it to the original 2ft 4inch gauge whilst the other group feels 2ft would be a better opyion in terms of availability of locos and stock etc. One of the groups website has not been updated for sometime but this group seem to have secured the occupation of the loco shed and depot at Glyn Ceiriog whilst the other lot are working on the Chirk Station site. Anyone have any further information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Rival preservationists falling out over a stretch of narrow-gauge railway in North Wales? Never! Cheers, Will PS. Sorry to sound pedantic but you might want to correct the typing error in the topic's title; it might just be my computer but it looks like 'GYT' instead of 'GVT'. With a bit of luck this will attract some more sensible replies than my effort above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeps Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Rival preservationists falling out over a stretch of narrow-gauge railway in North Wales? Never! Cheers, Will PS. Sorry to sound pedantic but you might want to correct the typing error in the topic's title; it might just be my computer but it looks like 'GYT' instead of 'GVT'. With a bit of luck this will attract some more sensible replies than my effort above. Cheers! well spotted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 According to a bit in Narrow Gauge World a few months ago the line is going to be rebuilt to 2' 6" gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yep, that's what the discussion on NGRM was saying, one end on original gauge, the other wants 2' 6"! Will be interesting when they meet in the middle... Perhaps have a word with the Spanish about moveable wheels on axles! Rather sad though looking at it as an outsider... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeps Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yep, that's what the discussion on NGRM was saying, one end on original gauge, the other wants 2' 6"! Will be interesting when they meet in the middle... Perhaps have a word with the Spanish about moveable wheels on axles! Rather sad though looking at it as an outsider... Quite agree, lots of effort wasted by falling out and presenting a divided approach to the general public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Dienstleiter Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have a friend who is a member of both groups, he tells me that there are signs of a truce breaking out but the basic problem is as above - rebuild in 2'6" for which there is usable rolling stock available or stick to 2'4 and a bit with all the implications about extra cost. The wagon displayed by the fish market in the valley is 2'6" and has generated a lot of interest. The bottom end group are close to making a planning application for a rebuild, the top end group own some relics and a couple of buildings. One is the old shed which has a length of 2'4"+ track laid in front of it. The clash is between preservation and conservation - do you get a line running or nurture the exisiting relics. And as usual there are strong willed individuals on both sides who believe that they are acting in the best interest of the project and the other lot are just ... blind ... blind ... Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 TBH there is little noticeable difference between the two gauges, I doubt most people would see the 1 1/2" difference, especially under the loco's skirts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeps Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 TBH there is little noticeable difference between the two gauges, I doubt most people would see the 1 1/2" difference, especially under the loco's skirts! Exactly - all this wasted effort used up in falling out. I'd like to get involved but am turned off by these arguments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward66 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Surely there would be enough leeway to allow a nominal 2'5" which would acommodate both gauges, I find it hard to believe that a 1" tolerance either way would cause mass derailments, what is the usual tyre width? Seems like an argument over nothing to me or am I missing something or totally wrong about the tolerance argument? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Surely there would be enough leeway to allow a nominal 2'5" which would acommodate both gauges, I find it hard to believe that a 1" tolerance either way would cause mass derailments, what is the usual tyre width? Seems like an argument over nothing to me or am I missing something or totally wrong about the tolerance argument? I`m sure nothing as simple as a question of track-gauge, could possibly cause an argument! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted February 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2012 One of the problems they are in danger of coming up against is preservation saturation. I have been saying for some years now that the UK railway preservation is approaching saturation point. You already have the Cambrian Railway Society, The Llangollen Railway and the WHHR in reasonably close proximity. Unless you have a multi millionaire benefactor to give you funds, you are out with the begging bowl competing with all the other extant railway projects. I expect if you looked hard enough you'd probably find quite a few that didn't make it pass the initial 'let's preserve this railway line' enthusiasm. Good luck to them, and I hope they come to an amicable decision quickly and accept either gauge. A 2' 6" gauge railway in need of locos and stock could be a very useful escape for the Sittingborne if their SOS campaign fails Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Dienstleiter Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 We did talk, within the SKLR, about the possibility of a 'Bowater Railway in Exile' when the Viaduct Crisis blew up twenty years ago. In the result of course by careful planning we were able to repair the viaduct and it is no longer a threat to the line's future. The full SKLR will be reopening this year: SOS has been a success. Well done the organisers of it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think they have to be realistic that whatever they create isn't restoring the original as only a couple of items of stock still exist so it's going to be a recreation instead. If you accept that then commercially, which is the only way to survive long term as other preserved railways have realised, 2ft 6in makes more sense as they can acquire stock ready to run without re-gauging and attract enthusiasts with visiting locos from somewhere like the Welshpool & Llanfair. Rebuilding the GVT exactly as it was isn't likely to be allowed due to the tramway sections and modern roads so capturing the essence with replica locos and a established gauge in modern times does make more sense when you'd need a ruler to tell the difference. The GVT certainly offers something truly different to the other lines so I wish them well having been a member of the WHR at the height of that dispute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Surely there would be enough leeway to allow a nominal 2'5" which would acommodate both gauges, I find it hard to believe that a 1" tolerance either way would cause mass derailments, what is the usual tyre width? Seems like an argument over nothing to me or am I missing something or totally wrong about the tolerance argument? Its not really a matter of tyre width on plain track. The problems arise through point work where the different back to back measurements of the wheels of the two gauges will mean either 2ft 4in gauge will be too tight to go through the check rails and common crossing or the 2ft 6in gauge wheels will not be guided at all. Both scenarios mean one or the other will derail at point work or checkrailed curves. On the Festiniog they cannot safely run full 2ft gauge wheelsets through 1ft 11 1/2 in gauge pointwork, three times that difference has absolutely no chance. On models in 4mm scale 0.2mm is the difference between go and no go Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Glyn Valley Tramway on BBC news online today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-16886448 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted February 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2012 Glyn Valley Tramway on BBC news online today: http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-16886448 Thanks Debs - and what is interesting is that there is a link to the very detailed Planning Permission report by the local authority who are supporting the 2ft 6in line being built at Chirk - it runs to about 15 pages and so I have only had a very quick glance. Summary copied below One mile reinstatement of tramway between Chirk Station at the western end of Station Avenue, travelling south east running parallel with Station Road before turning south west to run parallel with the B4500 (Chirk to Glyn Ceiriog Road) until Pontfaen and then travelling east and ending at the proposed Pontfaen Station, directly north of Chirk Fisheries. PROPOSAL Involves the re-opening of a section of the original Glyn Valley Tramway which closed in 1935. A one mile section of tramway would be reinstated between Chirk and Pontfaen. The proposal would include the laying of a narrow gauge (2’ 6†gauge) railway, construction of a new building to provide covered storage of railway rolling stock and to allow minor running repairs, reconstruction of the original station building on the original site, a small building at Pontfaen, construction of platforms, construction of parking facilities and construction of a new level access to the GVT station, which will have the dual purpose of providing disabled access to the mainline station. The full details are here http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/MinutesData/Planning/Reports/HCWD0412.DOC Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 We did talk, within the SKLR, about the possibility of a 'Bowater Railway in Exile' when the Viaduct Crisis blew up twenty years ago. In the result of course by careful planning we were able to repair the viaduct and it is no longer a threat to the line's future. The full SKLR will be reopening this year: SOS has been a success. Well done the organisers of it! Good job too, the SKLR wouldn't be right for North Wales ... and it is nice to have some narrow gauge in other parts of the country too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Dienstleiter Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Indeed - the Bowater line is very Kentish indeed: one possibility canvassed was a well known events site near Sittingbourne ... the other was outside the county at a railway that wanted to extend to connect to the national network but could not see a way of doing it at their standard gauge. I was a trustee at the time and politely declined both suggestions ... there is only one place for the S&K!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 BBC Wales News last night (Wednesday) had some info on the rebuild; apparently the council have now given the go-ahead for the first mile from Chirk to be rebuilt, and action to clear the trackbed is now imminent. Will this be yet another line that relies on a millionaire backer, I ask myself; perhaps some of these enormous bonuses are justified if they're spent on cute trains.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickinwestwales Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The sense I got from the T.V segment was that the new line is planned as a community resource & suitably `green` people mover for the various tourist enterprises locally-The chap being interviewed barely touched on the `Old line comes back to life ` aspect but was very persuasive on the implied tourist spending theme- All good to me-sell the concept,get some rails laid and worry about bespoke tram engine replicas later....once the first yard of track is down it`s a railway-until then it`s just a plan Wish them well ATB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stainzmeister Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Let's hope the differences are overcome and progress is made. Its only 15 miles away from me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81E Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It's good news that some progress is being made. However it is ironic to think that whichever gauge is chosen, 2'6" or 2'4.5", that the only surviving examples of GVT rollingstock will not be able to run on it! These are the two coaches on the Talylyn Railway which is of course 2'3". My only concern is that those opening the new railway are careful with the remains of the old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeps Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 I note that the GVT Groups website seems to be very much out of date now 2008 in some places. Anyone got an update on progress? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewGVT Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Hi I thought this might help, http://www.thegvt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84&Itemid=77. There is a monthly work party report on there. Also I read in narrow gauge world that the heritage trust is going to lay the track in the coal yard at Glyn Ceiriog to 2' gauge and the area around the engine shed to the ordinal gauge of 2' 4 1/2" and the trust is still building it to 2' 6" so now there is going to be 3 gauges in the valley!! I wish it was the other way round, the trust have Glyn Ceiriog and the heritage trust had Chirk because I think laying it to the original gauge is never going to work out and the Glyn Ceiriog people have a good length in run in the most scenic part of the valley. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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