tractor_37260 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 A Good New Year to all" Now for the bad/sad part - A second Loksound V4 decoder has failed - this time fitted to Model Rail's DRS 37 409. This loco has only been used for 30mins tops. It was running yesterday normally, along with another V3.5 fitted 37 698. Went to fire them up this morning, 37 698 no problem - 37 409 DEAD no sound or movement, removed the body and found a burnt decoder, along with "that" distinctive smell . Along with 37 417, that's 2 x Lok4's that have failed within 6 weeks, both fitted to Bach 37's ? unless I've been extremely unlucky, it leads me to conclude that: 1. Is there a QC issue with the Lok V4 or perhaps some of them ? 2. Is there a fault in the latest style 37 circuit board, or again with some of them ? 3. As the attached phot shows, due to the rearrangement of the V4 decoder components, the fitment to the 37 loco circuit board leaves the decoder at an acute angle, hard against a component on the main circuit board - more importantly at the "apparent point of failure" Having used sound from the early days 2006/7 I've never had a deocder fail, until now with 2 Lok 4's failing within 6 weeks . The system used from the start being a Lenz100, presently V3.6. Plan to phone SWD (being the main importer) and ask about any reliability issues thay may have had, or know about, with the Lok V4. Anyone else had problems with Lok V4 sound decoders ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If that's a professional install then I would ask for a replacement from the installer, Bachmann going by the seal on it. if you did it yourself, then next time put an insulating layer between the two boards. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I noticed the same problem when I fitted a 21-pin v4 to my Bachmann 37 (37406). There are at least 3 design issues here; 1. The components of the chip being in contact with the PCB in the loco could lead to short-circuits. 2. The direct contact between chip and PCB reduces the ability of the sound chip to dissipate heat which could lead to overheating and premature failure. 3. From a mechanical point of view the 21-pin connector is under stress as the chip won't sit flat, this could also lead to premature failure. As the seal is still in place I would say you have a very good case for replacement with the retailer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caber Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hello, I stumbled across this forum today when searching for someone with a similar issue. I just received my new Bachmann 37417 'Highland Region' loco with the DCC sound factory fitted (lok4 I believe?) today so I set it running around a little loop to 'run it in', 5 minutes later and it just stops dead and becomes completely unresponsive to anything I do. All my other loco's work on the track so there seems to be no doubt that it's the loco. I've emailed the retailer and I'm waiting for a response on the matter, not too impressed after saving up so much money and it breaking within 5 minutes.. oh well. Update: Decided to try the loco once more before I packaged it up for sending it back tomorrow and it works (confused).. sort of. Seems to behave very randomly though, it will continue to rev all the way up to max and stay there for a good 10-15 seconds (when the loco is stopped) even if I just touch the throttle ever so slightly then quickly bring it back down to idle. Every sound is practically drowned out by the horrible like.. staticy/white noise in the background. Not impressed at all if this is the standard of sound that's being shipped with these new models, but then again I could have just ended up with a really bad one. How was the sound quality on yours before it blew up, tractor_37260? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 One of our club members had a Bachmann 37, the latest blue one with buffer beam skirts. Ran fine on DC but as soon as he fitted his sound chip it fried. Turned out to be wired up wrong with one bogies brown wire wired to the wrong tag. So its worth checking..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hello, I stumbled across this forum today when searching for someone with a similar issue. I just received my new Bachmann 37417 'Highland Region' loco with the DCC sound factory fitted (lok4 I believe?) today so I set it running around a little loop to 'run it in', 5 minutes later and it just stops dead and becomes completely unresponsive to anything I do. All my other loco's work on the track so there seems to be no doubt that it's the loco. I've emailed the retailer and I'm waiting for a response on the matter, not too impressed after saving up so much money and it breaking within 5 minutes.. oh well. Update: Decided to try the loco once more before I packaged it up for sending it back tomorrow and it works (confused).. sort of. Seems to behave very randomly though, it will continue to rev all the way up to max and stay there for a good 10-15 seconds (when the loco is stopped) even if I just touch the throttle ever so slightly then quickly bring it back down to idle. Every sound is practically drowned out by the horrible like.. staticy/white noise in the background. Not impressed at all if this is the standard of sound that's being shipped with these new models, but then again I could have just ended up with a really bad one. How was the sound quality on yours before it blew up, tractor_37260? If the decoder had blown, it's unlikely it would work again - ever - it's possibly a faulty speaker and or decoder. As for the sound quality "out of the box" - It was OK but not as good as I was expecting, being the first Lok V4 37 I'd heard, an earlier Bach 37 I have with V3.5 decoder and twin speakers easily blew it away. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I noticed the same problem when I fitted a 21-pin v4 to my Bachmann 37 (37406). There are at least 3 design issues here; 1. The components of the chip being in contact with the PCB in the loco could lead to short-circuits. 2. The direct contact between chip and PCB reduces the ability of the sound chip to dissipate heat which could lead to overheating and premature failure. 3. From a mechanical point of view the 21-pin connector is under stress as the chip won't sit flat, this could also lead to premature failure. As the seal is still in place I would say you have a very good case for replacement with the retailer. Once I finally have some Lok4's that don't "fry up" they will be heading your way for reblows - that new 27 is awesome ! Already had one of the locos replaced,the above loco has gone back to Kernow for replacement. I did discover that, "apparently" a small batch of rogue components - the orange/yellow boxes - capacitors ? had been used on some decoders, causing the failures, hence not all being affected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 It makes me worry about getting mine reblown too, Don't want to ruin my warranty for it to go on to break! I also considered this issue. If a sound decoder was removed from the likes of a "factory fitted" Bachmann loco, and then reblown eleswhere and thereafter failed, Bachmann's warranty would be void AFAIN. However, provided you have proof of the original purchase, ESU would/should replace under manu warranty, unsure if it's within 12 or 24 months of purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi, Is there any pattern to the time these decoders take to fail? I've been running three of these v4s quite intensely for a few months so hoping they would've failed by now. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi, Is there any pattern to the time these decoders take to fail? I've been running three of these v4s quite intensely for a few months so hoping they would've failed by now. Jim I didn't mean that I was hoping for them to fail! but if they were going to fail they would've by now...... Oh, you know what I mean! Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I didn't mean that I was hoping for them to fail! but if they were going to fail they would've by now...... Oh, you know what I mean! Jim Jim If they have lasted a "few months" they should be OK. Both my failures happened with very little use, on one, when shutting it down after running it for the first time for 15-20mins it went "pop" during shut-down. Both failures were fitted to 37's. One replacement has been used extensively, running/idling etc - so far so good ! Still waiting to get the other replacement loco back. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Anecdotally, ESU and their retailers are good at replacing faulty chips where still under warranty. I also understand that ESU will replace any of their soundchips, in any condition, with a brand new one for 35 Euros. I've been running around 10 v4's of my own for ages now with no problems. Worthy of note though is that a batch of 10 brand new Loksound Micros I received had 3 faulty ones when tested prior to reblowing. The retailer replaced them without question. That was a good while ago now though, so perhaps early quality control issues? Bif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anecdotally, ESU and their retailers are good at replacing faulty chips where still under warranty. I also understand that ESU will replace any of their soundchips, in any condition, with a brand new one for 35 Euros. I've been running around 10 v4's of my own for ages now with no problems. Worthy of note though is that a batch of 10 brand new Loksound Micros I received had 3 faulty ones when tested prior to reblowing. The retailer replaced them without question. That was a good while ago now though, so perhaps early quality control issues? Bif Found this on the ESU website, re factory fit decoders: food for thought perhaps ? Many ESU decoders have already been pre-installed into locomotives that come ex factory. These decoders are exclusively provided with special settings for the respective customer and his locomotive to some extent. The so-called OEM decoders may considerably differ from our ESU standart decoders. If these decoders shouldn´t work probably anymore, please refer it DIRECTLY to the manufacturer of the locomotive or to the shop where you purchased the locomotive. Please never return an OEM decoder or even the whole locomotive to ESU, since we can´t accept any direct warranty claims for such decoders! All OEM decoders and locos will be sent back unrepaired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Graff Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If these decoders shouldn´t work probably anymore, please refer it DIRECTLY to the manufacturer of the locomotive or to the shop where you purchased the locomotive. Please never return an OEM decoder or even the whole locomotive to ESU, since we can´t accept any direct warranty claims for such decoders! All OEM decoders and locos will be sent back unrepaired. This isn't surprising. Compare it with if you own a vehicle with a Cummins diesel in it, and the engine fails. Do you call the vehicle mfg or Cummins direct? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Quick Update Kernow models have replaced the faulty sound fitted DRS 37 409 very promptly indeed - excellent service. The replacement has been running intensively, and so far so good - no problems at all. Only a few sound fitted versions of DRS 37 409 left (non sound sold out) so if you want one you better be quick ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The V4 decoder in my Sound On Board Class 20 quit working the other day. The sound still works but the motor output doesn't. The loco works OK on DC. I did find the decoder in hard contact with a solder joint on the circuit board and a small piece of a component chipped off. No sign of a short though (ie no burnt spots). Since I've had the loco apart and been fooling around with it I opted to send the dud decoder off to a UK retailer who offered to do an exchange. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ive had this problem with a brand new Bachmann peak with factory fitted sound. i bought the loco brand new from hattons, then after trying it on a length of straight track i decided i wasnt happy with the sound so sent it off to Howes to be reblown. came back, new sound was excellent, but loco wouldnt run more than an inch or so without stalling. the loco wheels where very black with a paint like substance not dirt, cleaned them, it worked better but would still stall. my dad reckoned it was shorting, i took the body off to see if i could see what was causing the problem, in doing this i did snap a few wires on the main board but soldered them back on. i also soldered the pickup wires to the main board as i didnt like the black cover holding them on as i thought that could be causing problems. running it even with crocodile clips direct to the pickups, sometimes it would run then it would get a motor chatter like when you run a motor direct on ac, and also a high pitched noise from the speaker. i couldnt see anything else so stupidly removed the warranty tape over the chip as i wanted to see if something was touching underneath, i also removed the main circuit board as i thought that could be shorting on the cast block in the end i noticed that one of the resistors on the motor had a long leg that was touching the cast chassis, when pulled away from the cast chassis the loco worked again. i reassembled the loco but then once the body was on nothing, ive since taken it apart again to see but cant find anything, the loco has no lights, sound or motor movement, the motor will not move under dc from the pickups. i did notice when the loco was running the chip was very hot. at a loss to know what to do with this now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ive bought two Bachmann 37417"s over xmas,one ive kept and the other ive fitted the Drs body shell of 37688,both run awsome!! realy pleased with them,"but" frend of mine has had upto now,six of the same loco"s go pop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ive now placed little bit of plastic between my v4 chip and the mother board on all my sound 37"s........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Looks like I also have a bad apple. 37417 arrived this morning, and managed 3 mins on the rolling road before it died. Dynamis handset showed a short, so I reset it and tried again, this time it lasted 2 mins and stopped dead, then nothing. I have just tried it on DC and again on DCC and now it is doing nothing at all. Normally I would have had it in pieces by now but I think a phone call to Sheffield is a better bet in this instance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi The Warranty tape is a bit of kidology. If there is a manufacturing or assembly fault on the part of the supplier, you are covered by standard consumer rights, removal of the warranty tape does not affect those rights. They are required to repair, replace or refund. In the case of such faults there is also no time limit on your rights, however this applies to faults at manufacture/assembly not those that develop through unreasonable use or wear and tear unless such wear can be shown to be abnormal from what could be expected by a reasonable person. Regards Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishmick Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 A Good New Year to all" Now for the bad/sad part - A second Loksound V4 decoder has failed - this time fitted to Model Rail's DRS 37 409. This loco has only been used for 30mins tops. It was running yesterday normally, along with another V3.5 fitted 37 698. Went to fire them up this morning, 37 698 no problem - 37 409 DEAD no sound or movement, removed the body and found a burnt decoder, along with "that" distinctive smell . Along with 37 417, that's 2 x Lok4's that have failed within 6 weeks, both fitted to Bach 37's ? unless I've been extremely unlucky, it leads me to conclude that: 1. Is there a QC issue with the Lok V4 or perhaps some of them ? 2. Is there a fault in the latest style 37 circuit board, or again with some of them ? 3. As the attached phot shows, due to the rearrangement of the V4 decoder components, the fitment to the 37 loco circuit board leaves the decoder at an acute angle, hard against a component on the main circuit board - more importantly at the "apparent point of failure" Having used sound from the early days 2006/7 I've never had a deocder fail, until now with 2 Lok 4's failing within 6 weeks . The system used from the start being a Lenz100, presently V3.6. Plan to phone SWD (being the main importer) and ask about any reliability issues thay may have had, or know about, with the Lok V4. Anyone else had problems with Lok V4 sound decoders ? Hi I am new to DCC Sound and I have just put a loksound decoder in a rebuilt battle of britain ran for about half hour fine now all the controler say is overload so I put the train on a seperate bit of track and it still said it tryed a seperate train and that worked fine do you think my decoder is nackard as it has took me along time to save up for that many thanks for youe helpMike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi I am new to DCC Sound and I have just put a loksound decoder in a rebuilt battle of britain ran for about half hour fine now all the controler say is overload so I put the train on a seperate bit of track and it still said it tryed a seperate train and that worked fine do you think my decoder is nackard as it has took me along time to save up for that many thanks for youe helpMike It sounds as though the decoder has overheated and reset itself. If you put the decoder in yourself as the post seems to suggest then make sure that it is not touching anything metallic through the wrapping and is in clear air even if in the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishmick Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It sounds as though the decoder has overheated and reset itself. If you put the decoder in yourself as the post seems to suggest then make sure that it is not touching anything metallic through the wrapping and is in clear air even if in the body. Hi thanks for the reply i have tryed the decoder in another train and it still is coming up with over load even without the body on and the decoder no where near anything there is no sign of overheating and the decoder looks just as good as when i put it in im really not sure what is going on. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Might be your mother board,which is faulty,seen this happen on few Bachmann 66"s and the new class 70.Causes the chip to blow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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