cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Probably a dumb question but I always work on the principle that the only really silly questions are those that aren't asked when a problem could have been avoided if you had. Are there any special techniques or methods required for baseboards when you're using O gauge, due to the extra weight etc involved? Normally I'd work with a 6mm ply top with either 6mm framing and 1" square timber to hold it all together, or 2" x 1" framing all round, obviously with various supports as required across the underneath. I tend to work on the board as lowest level and then build up scenery on raised trackbeds using wood or polystyrene as appropriate, rather than an 'open frame' method. Will this be ok when I finally get round to finalising my track plan, or is something more substantial going to be required? It will be designed as portable and constructed on 4ft x 2ft sized boards for convenience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok with 6mm ply and 2"x1" framing but better with 3"x1" framing, even better with 4"x1". I use 2"x2" legs fitted into a made up box in each corner same size as the frame. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I use 3" x 1" framing and use best quality ply on my 7mm exhibition layouts. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 baseboard #2 for Fourgig will be 16mm ply all round, framing will be 60mm deep to give the 3" total height to match the softwood and ply construction of board #1. Why 16mm ply? - free from work, waste material from a packing case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm still agonising over whether to use composite beams for my first project in 'O' as I have on previous 'OO' and 'N' layouts. 100mm (4") strips of 3mm MDF (or 3mm ply if you prefer) separated by blocks of softwood at 250mm (10") intervals). Light, cheap, unbelievably strong for the actual bulk of material involved however a bit labour intensive. Best if you can get the baseboard-length strips cut for you professionally but still do-able with a Stanley knife and a long steel rule if you'd rather not. For added twist resistance add a pair of opposing diagonals or an 'X' shape mid-board length. Legs can be simply plugged in. Model Rail, Jan 2012 edition (pages 60-64) contains some useful info' and pic's if you haven't come across this technique before (though glue and pin everything properly and most of those screws they suggest are probably superfluous). The reason I like composite beams is that I have this thing about open-top baseboards with the trackbed on risers giving the option of underbridges and embankments. But then I'm now also attempting to build my own track so I'm clearly a sucker for a challenge (or certifiable ;-) David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 The thought of 'open frame' has passed my mind but given my track design the only "below track" that I have in mind is the possibility of a small stream at one end - but I need road overbridges as scenic breaks both ends of the layout so unfortunately an underbridge for the road isn't an option. I am still tweaking the track plan though but given the amount of features I want to add in to make the layout intersting to use, in about half the space I'd really like to use, I think the simpler the boards the better, especially given that it's my first project in O gauge I don't want to open up even more risk of disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hi For framing I would use 3mm ply strips 75mm wide seperated at the top and bottom by a soft wood fillet. Makes for very strong framing that is quite light. I think these days I would use celotex or similar for the middle on the size boards you are making probable about 50mm thick. I know 75mm will support my weight at 400mm centres I no light weight these days. Peter Cross Brazil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My O gauge N American garage layout is constructed of a 2" x 2" roughsawn framework nailed together (18" centres) with a 1/2" chipboard screwed on top. On top of the chip is 1/2" insulation board, 4' x 2' sheets, with gaps at all edges for surface wiring. All this is painted with cheap dark brown fence paint, before any track or scenery. Peco track is easy to lay and fix by 1/2" panel pins (drill the track first). Ballast is loose budgie grit. No glue, no movement (solid baseboards), no problems altering track etc. Doesnt have to look pretty, it's cheap & strong & level. My scenery is heavy (actual lumps of red sandstone) - No problems last 15 years. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2012 I find for flat topped boards 6mm ply with 34x18mm timber framing but use either the 34x18 or 25mm square diagonal braces and find them quite suitable for 0 gauge. up to 750mm wide ( not tried larger). This is the view of an underside. I used 4mm ply with 12mm wood spacers to make a curved beam on an earlier layout I find split hinges work well but if you prefer pattern dowels try this easy way use some thin ply 4mm is ok for C+L dowels and cut to strips clamp a pair and drill two holes big enough for the base of the dowels then fix to the baseboard ends either side carefully aligning the tops ( take care the strips are the same way round.) then fix the dowels. No concerns with aligning the holes Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm still agonising over whether to use composite beams for my first project in 'O' as I have on previous 'OO' and 'N' layouts. 100mm (4") strips of 3mm MDF (or 3mm ply if you prefer) separated by blocks of softwood at 250mm (10") intervals). Light, cheap, unbelievably strong for the actual bulk of material involved however a bit labour intensive. Best if you can get the baseboard-length strips cut for you professionally but still do-able with a Stanley knife and a long steel rule if you'd rather not. For added twist resistance add a pair of opposing diagonals or an 'X' shape mid-board length. Legs can be simply plugged in. Model Rail, Jan 2012 edition (pages 60-64) contains some useful info' and pic's if you haven't come across this technique before (though glue and pin everything properly and most of those screws they suggest are probably superfluous). The reason I like composite beams is that I have this thing about open-top baseboards with the trackbed on risers giving the option of underbridges and embankments. But then I'm now also attempting to build my own track so I'm clearly a sucker for a challenge (or certifiable ;-) David Composite beams (150mm) thats what I have used for my first venture into "O" gauge,but topped with 12mm Exterior quality plywood.I am very pleased with them.They were inspired by Barry Norman on the Right Track video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hello CN, I use the geodetic caper to make my baseboards here's a pic under the baseboard of my new 7mm micro layout. I've accepted Carl Arendt's challenge of a layout in 4 sq ft, this is 4 ft long and 18" wide I will use the spare 6" as an operating area and build in a home made controller, it also includes a 15" x 8" traverser and there will be a little add-on to create a run round. It's all made from 6 mm ply and the ribs are 75 mm deep, it will not warp and I cannot twist it at all. I can say this with complete confidence because I gave a similarly made but larger layout to a model club in Birmingham in the late eighties, it is still in use. If anyone is going to use heavy scenery then a thicker top may be necessary. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I use 12mm plywood for the top with 4" x 1" framing all round. There are no intermediate supports. Why? Because you can guarantee that they will clash with a point motor or similar. And, if you are using Tortoise point motors at least 4" depth of timber framing is required to protect the motor on a portable layout as they are quite deep. Other than that there's not much else to it. If you want to indulge your taste for woodwork origami then please do so but I find it unnecessary. After all, the quicker I can get on with tracklaying the better. Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hallo Chris. There is not always room for deep baseboards. With a sloping roof attic and cupboards to store under the layout space is valuable. Similarly if you need to transport a layout in a small car. I found that I could mount Tortoises on their side to drive the turnouts. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hello Chris, If your baseboard can twist, give it a try, it will warp. And if you need to cut through to add something underneath 6mm ply is easily cut. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have used 12mm plywood for various layouts, both 7mm and 4mm, and warping has never been a problem. What has been a problem is with the use of thinner plywood as experienced by my local club with their last layout (nothing to do with me, I'm pleased to say). I don't know if you are familiar with the layout "Thurston" - it's been in several magazines. That uses 4' x 2' and 4' x 3' baseboards constructed in the manner previously described (I know because I built them) and the only problem experienced was where we painted the top only of the fiddle yard baseboards with matt black emulsion paint. Over the 20 years since construction the baseboards have warped upwards. This didn't happen on the front scenic section so we put it down to the paint. The club's new layout follows similar practice but we have painted the underside of the fiddle yard baseboards as well. Hopefully this will solve the problem. As for cutting 12mm plywood - well, I've never had any trouble. For example, where the track runs on an embankment or you need cut-outs for signals and the like a jigsaw will solve all your problem. Well it does for me, anyway. Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hallo Chris. There is not always room for deep baseboards. With a sloping roof attic and cupboards to store under the layout space is valuable. Similarly if you need to transport a layout in a small car. I found that I could mount Tortoises on their side to drive the turnouts. I'm glad you have successfully managed to mount Tortoise point motors horizontally. I know it can be done but you are the first person I know who has managed it successfully. Well done. Of course, if space is at a premium then 4" framing will be a problem. It isn't necessary for strength, just for protection for the motors. My first 7mm layout, Little (Goods), used 3" framing which I found perfectly satisfactory. I only went to 4" on my layout, Cromer, due to the use of Tortoise motors. Ii's your choice - whatever works for you is fine. Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello Chris, The addition of some 6mm 'Origami' diagonals takes only a few more minutes and you would not have to wait and see what happens you would know :-) Your 4" x 1" would I am sure be OK and with the 12mm ply on top would make it really solid. Being on old fogie and an independent modeller I have to have something that is both lightweight and extremely strong. The Lancaster and the Mosquito aircraft were built on the same principle and many crews owed their lives to its sturdiness. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Turnbull Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Jim I find that dinosaur (preferred) baseboard construction is fairly lightweight. What makes the difference is when scenery and the like is added - so make that lightweight or go on a body-building course ;-). In my younger days I used to slavishly follow advice from others only to find it wasn't that good advice. One such was to brace the underside of baseboards for rigidity - so this is not new. This worked well until I came to fit point motors, etc. It was a nightmare! It seemed to me that every brace impinged on something somewhere. And that was years ago before the advent of intra red detectors and suchlike electrical gubbins. To put bracing on the underside of Cromer would have been a non-starter with all the electrical bits and pieces that go to allow the interlocking, working SPAD indicators and colour light theatres. No, once bitten, twice shy as they say. I would never recommend bracing but that doesn't stop others doing it. As I have already said, if it works for you... Chris Turnbull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Dear Chris, I got the wrong aircraft, shame on me, it was the Wellington; The Mosquito was similar but interestingly enough made from Balsa. I worked in a joinery shop and the boss's favourite words were, "If you can twist it, it will warp". Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2012 Shouldn't be a problem with the second board for Fourgig - I'll print a reversed plan from Templot and stick it to the underside of the ply top before fitting it. That way the bracing can be placed well away from the three turnout motors. Signaling will have to fit round it though ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Dear Chris, I got the wrong aircraft, shame on me, it was the Wellington; The Mosquito was similar but interestingly enough made from Balsa. I worked in a joinery shop and the boss's favourite words were, "If you can twist it, it will warp". Jim The Mosquito was plywood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello Peter, I believe that a record run from UK to South America [brazil?] has not been beaten by a propeller driven aircraft since the Mosquito flight. On the subject of the timber, my Mother used to work on the aircraft and told me that balsa wood was used in the construction. Here is the part of the de Havilland specification, "The oval-section fuselage was a frameless monocoque shell built in two halves being formed to shape by band clamps over a mahogany or concrete mould, each holding one half of the fuselage, split vertically. The shell halves were made of sheets of Ecuadorean balsawood sandwiched between sheets of Canadian birch, but in areas needing extra strength such as along cut-outs stronger woods replaced the balsa filler. The join was along the vertical centre line" Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Ah Light weight ply, you can still get that lamination. I thought (wrongly it seems) that it was normal ply not lightweight. My father worked at Vickers and DH in the 50-60s at the time of the TSR2 and VC10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello Peter, One day when talking about the aircraft my Mother said that they were made [incorrectly] from Balsa wood, when I asked her how she knew she clammed up and would say no more. She also told me that she worked at the Singer Car factory on the Coventry Road in Birmingham during the war, but would not tell me what she did. Earlier this year I came across a book about the Singer factory at a car boot sale and in there it stated that the company had made parts for the Mosquito during the war. Ahhhh I said to the booter man now I know what my Mother did. I did ask her and my Father why they wouldn't tell me what they did and they both said that they'd been told to tell no one and that they'd never been told that it would be OK and therefore it would have to remain a secret. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2012 As they say Jim if they told you they would have to kill you! It was finding that typical baseboards could twist even using ply beams and normal cross braces, which set me off using diagonal braces. I have a small 3ftx18in basboard made up but not used that has been left lening against a wall in a shed then moved into store now back n another shed still as flat as when made. However Chris's layout cromer has been around for some time. Perhaps luck in the particular piece of ply, good space for storage etc could be the key factors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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