shortliner Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 http://www.the-gauge...php?f=54&t=5241 This is a simple FREE traffic generation program that is easy to set up - it needs you to tell it where your industry spots are, the type of car needed, and which spots are occupied, but it doesn't need a huge list of car numbers to be inserted. It will generate switch-lists for cars to be set out and to be picked up, leaving you to decide which car of that type to use for the job, rather than demanding specific number cars be used. This is perfect for small layouts ,that set up inbound cars on an interchange track or lead, before an operating session. I suggest you read through the thread, and then download the program Have fun Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I misread that as wishlists ! But having actually read the OP I'm intrigued. Now to have a play.... EDIT: the link is taking me to a forum where there are a few generators. Which one specifically did you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Great - look forward to hearing your results 'chard - although I think we have enough "Wishlist generators" on here without automating the process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Another thread on the same program: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/6795 I have modified this spreadsheet to take car of multiple shifts/jobs. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av-G9-8pxpQ5dEJQTWZKRjJ4OUU0NTZzVjV1dUhXb3c#gid=0 Lots of different ways to skin a cat with a spreadsheet. On my version I added a new job worksheet (All) for that references the base page, then duplicated that worksheet for each job, removing those industries that the job did not work by deleting the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Looks good! I'm currently playing round with JMRI ops, there's a lot of work involved there, it's a lot more complex and it's a steep learning curve, but i'm after something that will both handle specific car numbers and a complex layout with industry to industry flows - jury is out so far but it's also free... Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I like this concept. Not just because it delivers a shunting duty (not puzzle, I don't do them), but because it also dictates the consist of my daily Class 8, which stops me from needing to do so, and therefore keeps it somehow fresh. Good spot that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I particularly like the fact that, on a pack-away model, I don't have to set up my inbound with specific numbered cars. I can just take out the first car of that type that I come to and it becomes a part of the consist, without my having to type the entire car fleet into the program,and then set the system up with particular cars. The car in use for the industry simply gets its reporting mark added to the switchlist in pencil, and if I have multiple spots that the customer to be switched into a certain order, I can roll a dice (die) and, again, note it on the switchlist - I think it is great - and my thanks to you Dave H, for your input/upgrading of the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Been having a bit of a play with this, with details filled in as appropriate, but I'm getting slightly confused.. (not hard, I know...) The thing seems to generate far more Inbound loads than it does cars to pick up...? Also, how do you make it follow on from the first list generated... i.e. you carry out all the moves it says; how do you "refresh" it to produce the next working, since if I try and update it manually with which spots are now Occupied, it alters the whole thing before you can go down the list.... I usually find my mind goes blank and I go "blibbleblibbleblibble" when I read articles about Waybills, Timetables, and suchlike... some of them are sooooooo complicated!!!! I know this one isn't but I'm ................... blibbleblibbleblibble................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Been having a bit of a play with this, with details filled in as appropriate, but I'm getting slightly confused.. (not hard, I know...) The thing seems to generate far more Inbound loads than it does cars to pick up...? Also, how do you make it follow on from the first list generated... i.e. you carry out all the moves it says; how do you "refresh" it to produce the next working, since if I try and update it manually with which spots are now Occupied, it alters the whole thing before you can go down the list.... I usually find my mind goes blank and I go "blibbleblibbleblibble" when I read articles about Waybills, Timetables, and suchlike... some of them are sooooooo complicated!!!! I know this one isn't but I'm ................... blibbleblibbleblibble................................... Exactly what he dribbled above ........... does anyone know of a simple download for old fashioned waybills .. Regards Trevor ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The simple switchlist doesn't "remember" the previous list. It wakes up with a new list every time. The only memory is whether you indicate there is a car on the spot. You can adjust how many cars by adjusting the length of the week, how many cars its supposed to get per week, and the probabilities. If you list every spot as its own line it should pull more cars. When you ask for " simple download for old fashioned waybills" are you talking about car cards and waybills or prototype waybills? You can make your own CC&WB waybill blanks very easily with a spreadsheet program or a word processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 does anyone know of a simple download for old fashioned waybills .. Hopefully attached (provided RMWeb allows XLS files?) is the one we use, which is a redux version of Wolfgang Dudlers one which you can get here: http://www.westportterminal.de/operation_sense.html You'll need Excel or Open Office to use it. 4 Tabs: * First one is the car cards, print out (5), cut round, fold the bottom forwards and tape around to build them. * Second is the waybills for printing - If there's a Hazmat one I normally mark it by turning the middle stripe red * Third is a list of the type, origin, destination used for making the waybills, put your info into the list then use the number on the left and put it in the matrix at the top, that puts the info onto the second tab to be printed out, as i've uploaded the second sheet is set to print two #14, two #54 and one #55 card. * Notes, not connected to anything but I just added a page to give a sheet to work out how many of each car/waybill I need to source for a setup Our one uses 2-part (out and back) waybills which stay with a card during the session, that replicates cars arriving from staging and leaving to staging fairly well if you don't have a yard locally for storing empty/spare cars. Wolfgangs version allows for more traditional 4 part waybills which allow for more variety, and also them being removed to simulate empty cars being released back to a yard ready for another flow. Carcards&waybills.xls I think one of the reasons we're playing with something else is that a version based on switch lists should be easier to follow for a newbie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks Chaps.......Martyn,I think the one you have is what I am looking for ....Dudlers link seems to ring a bell in the past ...must have seen it and then lost it ....such is the way of interwebbythingy against a real book !!! Regards Trevor .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 This is another one that was posted on the Internet a while back - It doesn't seem to say who came up with it but it was posted for people to use as a "How to make your own" Random Switch Lists.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Cheers Jack .....now it is all slowly starting to make sense in my poor old pickled brain ... Regards Trevor ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I used to quite enjoy writing Excel spreadsheets - although the last was a good few years ago now, written to ensure that up to 100 trainees actually got the correct wages that they were due, and not what THEY thought they should get, depending on a load of variables like sickness, fare repayment, holidays etc, etc - punch the data into the sheet, and the wage due came out the other end! Simplez! (tchik!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think we're looking at several basic philosophies of modeling and operation here. It seems to me that on this and similar forums, the prevailing layout style is what Jack calls "pack-away", one that's often stored on end in a closet or shed between exhibitions, which are the main social and operating focus. I've heard several well-known UK modelers explain that in such cases, operations are often played for the audience of attendees who are dropping by to watch for a few minutes -- one very well-known UK guy said on another forum that in such cases, he doesn't even bother with staging as such, he just shunts cars around the layout more or less at random, since he's likely to have to stop for questions and so forth anyhow. That's one philosophy, and the switchlist generator here might even be a little heavy-duty for that application. US style operation tends to start from the assumption that the layout is there to stay. Even freemo layouts are relatively rare, the normal situation is the basement or spare room permanent layout, or the layout at the club. It's more or less taken for granted that the corn syrup car that got left at the corn flake factory last Tuesday night will still be there this week. In those cases, car cards or computer generated consists, not just of locals or yard switchers, but haulers and through freights, are more understandable. Bruce Chubb makes a good point that the best systems are those that can't be subverted, i.e., operators doing the equivalent of the letter carrier dumping his junk mail down the sewer and heading back to the post office. This is a philosophical issue worthy of much discussion, but it may just not be very applicable in the typical UK environment, where any sort of list may be more than what's actually used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 JWB.... good points raised there ...as you say ..a lot of UK layouts are small and only used to display shunting .. but I am lucky enough to have a reasonable 34' x 10' area to play with and the traditional permanent layout operation is what I am looking for....but I do not want too complex a system as it will be primarily just to keep myself amused... Regards Trevor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 So you get to questions like what you're looking to do in operation: how often, how many others participate, how seriously you take these things, how much you don't want your friends to dump the stack of car cards in the trash. . . there are many, many options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Definately there are many, many ways to skin this particular cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm aflayed you are probably right - where's me coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 There is also a middle path that uses the car cards and waybills but rebills the cars between sessions. For example if I know on my layout that the only way a train will make schedule is to only have about 4-5 cars to spot or pull at a station and it just so happens there are 8 cars for one station and 6 to pull, I will "unbill" or rebill cars to get the number down to goal. I have no problem rearranging waybills to balance train loads or make a train more consistent or in block out of staging. I have "block cards" that are waybills with nothing on them but 4 train blocks (staging yards and interchanges) that I can use to send a car to staging. Similarly I have "hold for local loading" waybills that just send a car to the local agent to be used for loading at local industries. When it comes time to spot empties to those industries the hold cars are billed first. Sometimes I use a block card in front of a normal waybill just to delay a car from entering the flow. Of course all this only matters if you have a flow to worry about. If you are just doing a Lance M. style ISL or plank where there is no flow and the trains don't physically go any place else, managing the flow of the trains isn't a particularly big problem and not a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...US style operation tends to start from the assumption that the layout is there to stay. .... It's more or less taken for granted that the corn syrup car that got left at the corn flake factory last Tuesday night will still be there this week. ... That's kind of what I was hoping this program (the one in Jack's OP) might do. It seems though that it just generates random lists. To do a 'follow-on' list I need to note down manually somewhere the 'results' (i.e. what went where) from the previous list and then fill in the "Occupied" column yet again... blibbleblibbleblibble......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 One place to start -- if you're looking for a computer-generated switchlist -- is the Minirail free demo at http://minirail.com/ (assuming you're on Windows). If you poke around, you can find free switchlist generator programs here and there. Minirail keeps a memory of what cars are where in each subsequent session. But again, there are different ways to do this, and there have been recent articles in MR and RMC on how to make paper waybills for operation that are a little more realistic than the old 4-up car cards. It's very much a matter of individual preference, the attention span and patience level of anyone you operate with, how much time and effort you want to devote to setup, and so forth. Setup for anything like this is non-trivial, but it's an interesting exercise -- for instance, it's generally understood that everything on a railroad has a specific name (the "ice dock" track, even though the ice dock has been gone these many decades, for instance). You suddenly realize that you need to name everything on your layout. And that's just the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 .... it's generally understood that everything on a railroad has a specific name (the "ice dock" track, even though the ice dock has been gone these many decades, for instance). You suddenly realize that you need to name everything on your layout. ... The bonus of that is that it can make your layout seem a lot bigger !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 That's kind of what I was hoping this program (the one in Jack's OP) might do. It seems though that it just generates random lists. To do a 'follow-on' list I need to note down manually somewhere the 'results' (i.e. what went where) from the previous list and then fill in the "Occupied" column yet again... blibbleblibbleblibble......................... Jordan - you could have a look on here to see if you can find what you want. I think you'll find that a lot of the programs in the files are the work of Dave1905 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarCards/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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