cromptonnut Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok I'm struggling with a particular design aspect of my layout and there is a possible solution, however I wondered if such a prototype configuration exists or existed in real life. It's late 1970's UK if that helps. Basically a single line AHB crossing on a rural road. However I am also planning on a factory complex with rail served sidings. Would an "internal line" (part of the sidings), cross the main road some 50 or so ft further along the road from the actual main line crossing, hand-controlled for the occasional trip between the factory and the sidings (which are dissected by the road? If not, what would the solution normally be? I hope that makes sense - if not I'll draw a diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I can find plenty of examples of rarely used "industrial" lines where the crossing is 'unsignalled' - it's just whether it would exist so closely to an actual level crossing. The only option I can think of would be a 'wide' crossing that incorporates both lines between the barriers a distance apart (which admittedly may not be 50 scale feet) but surely they wouldn't want the rail barriers going down when there isn't a "main line" train coming? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 If it's a main road I think they'd have at least insisted on warning lights for the factory and it would be unlikely that close to the main line as a separate crossing or you could get traffic backing up across the main line. I may be proved wrong as it's the 70's Could you change it to an occupation road to serve just a few houses and the factory? That would certainly allow user operated gates for the main line and nothing for the factory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 but surely they wouldn't want the rail barriers going down when there isn't a "main line" train coming? It's still a train as far as the car driver is concerned and most would just think it was a freight rather than knowing it was an internal industrial move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is worth a read. It might give a little insight into the operation of two adjacent level crossings... http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/090728_R202009_Llanbadarn.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium coronach Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2012 There are two types of automatic half barrier crossings. A conventional AHB where the train strikes in and operates the LC is not protected by signals and would probably not be appropriate where there is a risk of road traffic blocking back. The LC at Llandabarn looks the same as an AHB but is known as an ABCL (Automatic Barrier Level Crossing - Locally Monitored). In this case, a flashing white indicator is provided to inform the train driver that the LC has correctly operated (it flashes red at all other times) and the train speed is restricted to 55 mph or less. The driver is responsible for checking that the LC is clear and for stopping the train on the approach to the LC if it is not. The crossing speed is dependant on the sighting distance and the distance the train needs to stop clear of an obstruction. 55mph equates to about 600 yards. Llandabarn is a special case also because there are two parallel railways on the same road with ABCL type LCs closely separated. Here there is obviously a risk of blocking back every time a train runs on one of the lines. I understand that there are special controls that make sure that only one train can operate at a time - i.e. if a VoR train is approaching the crossing, a Cambrian line train does not get the route and vice versa. This means that only one LC operates at a time. In your situation, if you are modelling a branch line, I suggest that an ABCL would be appropriate for the main LC. The factory would employ whatever method of safe operation is appropriate. An open LC might suffice - no flashing lights - just road signs and stop boards requiring the shunter to check that the crossing is clear before the train proceeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have a sign from a crossing in my collection where the BR line was gated with a crossing keeper and the siding into the factory had flashing lights.. I'll upload a picture next time i'm home in daylight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Spondon has industrial tracks both inside and outside the barriers, but it isn't an AHB. It had a gate box until sometime around 1990 and is now CCTV. I don't think the line outside the barriers has been used for some decades. Crofton had a separate crossing outside the gates of a crossing worked by a keeper - in view of the situation described in that link it may have changed since. I also think this is unlikely to happen at an AHB, for the reasons suggested by others and also because if there is an industrial crossing there is probably a junction nearby on the main line, and AHBs are usually (always?) only found where there is plain line out as far as both strike-ins and no possibility of shunting across the crossing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't think it would get anywhere near the HMRI approving such a layout with AHB, due to the danger of blocking back over the crossing if the works line was in use. The nearest analogy I can think of is on the Robin Hood Line at Old Basford, where the B6004 crosses 2 heavy rail tracks on a CCTV crossing (Lincoln St Crossing as was), whilst the light rail tracks are outside the barriers. It has the added complication that it is in the middle of a traffic light controlled road junction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 Brickyard Crossing, on the same line near Hucknall, has two single lines, one NR and one NET, with a fence between either side of the crossing. It is an ABCL, and both lines are inside the same set of barriers. Bulwell Forest crossing has a similar layout but is CCTV, with both lines within the barriers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Don't think it would get anywhere near the HMRI approving such a layout with AHB, due to the danger of blocking back over the crossing if the works line was in use. Even if the works shunter was required to telephone the signalman to check that there wasn't a train coming on the branch before making any movement across the road that might potentially block things? I'm talking about less than half a dozen 12t box vans and the occasional shunt, not a full-on industrial complex with movements 24 hours a day. But if there is no real prototypical basis for this move then, in all probability, I need to find an alternative solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'd agree with the others, an AHB is unlikely in the circumstances, I'd make it full barriers with cameras as suggested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Unfortunately I've not yet found anyone who makes a full barrier crossing in O gauge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2012 There's quite a lot of level crossing information and links on John Tilly's website http://www.tillyweb.biz/crossings/odyframe.htm (Also a lot of signalbox pictures in the photo gallery) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2012 Unfortunately I've not yet found anyone who makes a full barrier crossing in O gauge... Well you can use the pedestals and lights from an AHB kit but the barriers are usually slightly different booms and they have the folding skirt with would be more difficult to model although I have seen one done with fine wire left unpainted. Basically you'd need two strips of metal with small holes all the way along big enoug for your wire to rotate freely, then make a jig so all the drop wires are identical like wide staples. Pass all the staples through the two strips to make it look like a ladder and using fine nosed pliers bend over the ends of the staples. It cam be done but it has to be very accurate or it won't fold as it lifts. For extra realism you can have a cyclists bike go up trapped in the skirt! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I know it can be done - I've seen someone on here with a video of a 4mm crossing that has a working "skirt" but that's a long way beyond my skills at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2012 I know it can be done - I've seen someone on here with a video of a 4mm crossing that has a working "skirt" but that's a long way beyond my skills at present. The guilty party is called Dagworth - a fine piece of modelling by any standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 That's the one, thanks. This is the video I've found now you reminded me who it was. Here's the discussion thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This was in Long Eaton, industrial tracks immediately outside gated level crossing. Only photo a very quick search brought up was this, no view of the industrial tracks http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/6007578245/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Found a photo, don't know why I didn't look here sooner! Looking across the level crossing, the industrial track can just be seen beyond the gates Picture The Past Also on that site is another photo, looking along Main Street towards the crossing, must be standing on the other level crossing at the corner in the road, but no view of it. I know these aren't rural, as you were interested in, but the closest I've found. So it does happen, and on busy mainlines and busy urban streets. Edit: Just for completeness, the same view today, from Google Streetview http://g.co/maps/dcj94 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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