daftbovine Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hello, Please excuse a silly question from the colonies. I have noticed in recent video footage, diesels, usually class 47s or 67s at the end of mainline steam trains. They are obviously there for back up but don't seem to be present on every steam train. I've searched the web for information but may be looking in the wrong places. I did get some answers from the N gauge forum but I would be most grateful for any further information as to how the whole set up works. Regards Veronica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There may be several reasons for it - provision of ETH (or ETS as they like to call it now), but most likely due to operational reasons - ie working the return leg. With almost everything multiple unit or fixed formation trains here, there are no longer any shunters to attactch locos to trains at stations, and probably no convenient stabling point for the diesel so they have to take it with them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Lots of reasons. Many terminii have now had run-rounds removed, and we are not allowed to use crossovers between platform faces any more (gauging risk - NR haven't a clue about the state of their asset half the time). In areas where locos are not commonly stabled, the loco also acts as the agreed contingency for a traction failure. Sometimes it runs light in a path behind the charter. More often than not, locos stay attached for ECS moves (such as WCR trains between Southall and the charter's origin station), or with ETS rolling stock to provide hotel services and/or heat. Most enthusiasts are not keen to have a diesel interfering with the steam loco's performance, and the dead weight of the diesel could be two or three more coaches of paying punters, so wherever we can avoid the diesel, we usually do. At places like Waterloo, the diesel brings the train into the station with the kettle on the back, uncouples and banks us out of the station before recessing until the evening, when it drops onto the ECS move back to Southall. (Poster is a member of 5305LA support crew!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Class 47s are more powerful than anything less than a Princess Coronation or a King and could do all the work if needed. How do they balance the loco power? When coaches were top and tailed in steam days there was often competition and, for a bit of a lark, the crew on the front would try to run away from a banker if they could. Boys will be boys when nobody in authority is looking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sometimes as well they are used to drag the set backwards. I was told once it cost £1000 to uncouple and couple a loco to a set of coaches on the main line so by having a loco on the back you can drag the set round a turning loop to get the steam engine back on the front and facing the right way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted February 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why can't the steam engine take the rake of coaches round the turning loop? Perhaps the rules are different in Ireland, but there is no diesel back up for RPSI steam railtours. As for charging £1,000 to uncouple and couple a train, that seems extortinate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Class 47s are more powerful than anything less than a Princess Coronation or a King and could do all the work if needed. How do they balance the loco power? When coaches were top and tailed in steam days there was often competition and, for a bit of a lark, the crew on the front would try to run away from a banker if they could. Boys will be boys when nobody in authority is looking. In most cases (as far as I have seen) the Diesel is only providing ETH, its not being driven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why can't the steam engine take the rake of coaches round the turning loop? I think it is to do with the fact that for the steam engine to take the set round, the loco would have to push the stock on 2 legs - I don't think they would allow that. Wheras the diesel can pull it round 2 legs of the triangle leaving the steam engine back on the front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Class 47s are more powerful than anything less than a Princess Coronation or a King and could do all the work if needed. How do they balance the loco power? When coaches were top and tailed in steam days there was often competition and, for a bit of a lark, the crew on the front would try to run away from a banker if they could. Boys will be boys when nobody in authority is looking. The rule is that as soon as contact with the banking loco is lost, the banker must drop back - so an enthusiastic start commits you to going it alone! A colleague of mine tells me that at Edge Hill they had a particular double-headed job where one crew was 'foreign' - and the guys on the shed would all come out to watch it pass, to see if the coupling was taut between the locos, so a winner could be judged! I think it is to do with the fact that for the steam engine to take the set round, the loco would have to push the stock on 2 legs - I don't think they would allow that. Wheras the diesel can pull it round 2 legs of the triangle leaving the steam engine back on the front. Generally speaking, when a tour reverses, there's a fair chance the loco is being serviced for the return run. You have to do what is most efficient; often this means the diesel looks after the stock whilst the loco and support coach turn and do what they need to do. It's been noted in one of the magazines lately that turning the whole train is unpopular, since you can end up at the opposite end to the loco all day - although many dining passengers probably wouldn't care! It all depends on the infrastructure at a given location. There is very little left in some places. £1000 to couple up is complete cobblers I'm afraid. It doesn't cost a penny - the train operator's crew are already being paid! Money changes hands for all sorts of obscure things, but not for your own staff to do their job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 we are not allowed to use crossovers between platform faces any more Is that a blanket restriction, or termini specific? Seems damn silly to me. NR haven't a clue about the state of their asset half the time That would not surprise me, makes you wonder how on earth the world managed before computer simulations and the NMT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The rule about platform faces is a blanket one. The end throw on a steam loco has the potential to catch platform edges, which have inched closer to the trains over time, not least to meet DDA stepping distances! If I recall, 6024 scraped the platform at Shrewsbury. As I recall, it applies not only to crossovers, but pointwork in the reverse position next to a platform (ie you can't take the diverging route). The trouble is that NR have detailed information but it is not kept up to date. It is not unknown for container trains to be barred from a route on an emergency basis when it is discovered that the clearances no longer comply. Ballasting and tamping is often the culprit; the track is inadvertantly raised incrementally over time. The rule is therefore frustrating (as is not having locos gauged for routes they were built for and probably do still fit!) but we have to play it safe - and in fairness, there are few circumstances where you would want to run round a train without turning, fewer places where you still can, and still fewer where you could get away with leaving the platform occupied during a layover! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.