witherbrow Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 morning all in the very early stages of planning a possible mini shunting layout in a set of storage draws - after a bit of anyrail planning im thinking that a three way point is going to be the best option. however im a bit confused on all this electrofrog and insulfrog malarkey, - as my limited knowledge goes an electrofrog will be better for good running and shunting and wont short out as im only using one feed and one loco? the plan is on my blog if you wanted to look at it - basically it looks like a fork lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem is basically that at the frog the left rail crosses the right hand rail. Without some insulation, there would be a short circuit. The simple way is a short deaed section at the frog (insulfrog) - usually plastic in commercial track. This can cause a loco to stall, if the wheel picking up current is the one on the frog (there are always only three wheels in contact with the rails with a rigid chassis). To avoid this the frog can be made live (electrofrog). The polarity has to change according to the setting of the point, obviously. This can can be arranged simply (and unreliably) by using the blades for contact or by means of a separate switch. With your layout there is no danger of shorts caused by feeds from the heel (frog end)of the point. These are easily solved by a simple break in the rail, in any case. The case of a three way point (which can be considered as two points one on top of the other) is rather more complex due to the presence of the the third frog, which makes the switching more complex. A simple logic 'truth table' makes everything clear. If we label the 3 routes A,B,C and the frogs 1,2,3 from left to right as seen from the toe of the point (X = don't care). Route Frog 1 Frog 2 Frog 3 A RH RH X B LH X RH C X LH LH EDIT: My spacing has disappeared with posting and has made a mess of the table. It just needs expanding out, however, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hello Witherbrow, No snow here up in South West Scotland either. I should perhaps start off by saying that I am firmly rooted in the past and use analogue control, not Digital. I have used Peco Streamline 3-way points for perhaps twenty years or more. In the first set up I used an Insulfrog point and as noted above the proximity of three closely spaced plastic frogs means that engines frequently stall. My current layout has two threeway points, both are Electrofrog and provide smooth running. I do have what I think is one important observation regarding their operation. I use Peco Point Motors. For the Insulfrog point this is straight forward and the Peco Point motors work very well and the points can be set to the desired route very easily. The Electrofrog point comes with additional track connections - and ample wiring instructions. The Electrofrog is designed for operation by Peco point motors fitted with add on Peco Switches. My opinion, based on the operation of my two Electrofrog points, is that their can be difficulties in providing enough electrical switching power to move two point motors moving two blades and two on / off switches all at the same time. In practice this means that the points do not reliably switch from one extreme to another, say from 'Road' No'; 1 right across to Road No.3. This is not however a problem and it simply means that the point has to be moved incrementally, from Road No. 1 to Road No.2 and then to Road No.3. It may be that this could be easily overcome with a bigger and better AC point motor supply. Hope this is of some use Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witherbrow Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 thanks guys think ill go for the electro if i deide to go ahead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witherbrow Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 evening all - ive gone with the electrofrog point and i received it yesterday the only problem i have now is that it's come with wires over the top - now im assuming this is normal but what do i do with them? do i cut them off or tuck them underneath lol ive no idea :( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If this what you mean, then don't cut them off. The wires are the feeds to the frogs, you need to feed them through the baseboard and provide (via a switch) power from one of the track feeds depending on which route is selected. It's all explained in the instruction sheet that comes with the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witherbrow Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 hiya sorry no its not like that one its an SL-E99 there are wires running underneath but two pop up and over pretty much slap bang in the middle of the point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2012 I suspect those are the frog wires tucked through - handle with care. I have always found the technical bureau at PECO (sorry railway modeller mode!) Peco extremely prompt and helpful with product queries. If in doubt email them with a photo if necessary. Bet you get an answer the same working day. info@pecobeer.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2012 I suspect those are the frog wires tucked through - handle with care. I have always found the technical bureau at PECO (sorry railway modeller mode!) Peco extremely prompt and helpful with product queries. If in doubt email them with a photo if necessary. Bet you get an answer the same working day. info@pecobeer.co.uk Hey, its donkeys years since they used PECO, throughout the magazine i.e. every layout description. It must be the best part of 15 years since they woke up to the fact that every one was taking the p**s. About the same time they realised that they couldn't stop the internet. I always laughed when I saw some ads slip through the filter by having their email address/website in a different format (i.e. spaces between the letters) so the spell checker or whatever didn't delete them. There was usually 1 or 2 each edition - some went months without being detected. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witherbrow Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 i thought that too - im hoping it aswel i really dont want to fiddle with wires and such i thought id post a picture too as you can see the wires are slap bang in the middle and trailing aling the side - they do end unconnected at the bottom so i think just tucking them underneath will be fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted May 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hi The photo below shows what I did with one of our club members Tandem when the wiring as installed failed. We cut out a section of cork underlay to allow for the wiring. HTH SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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