ZTC?

[BrushType4]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before but my search couldn't find what I needed.

 

I've seen a secondhand ZTC 505 controller for sale and I like the look and feel of the controller but I have a few questions;

 

It has a 5amp power supply so should be ok to run Heljan 0 gauge locomotives?

It only has 8 functions, is this an issue or can extra functions be added?

Any other known issues?

 

If not the ZTC, what should I go for to get into O gauge DCC, without spending a fortune.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

 

 

 

[Combe Martin]

Personnally, I love the ZTC controller. Yes the 505 and 511 only have 8 functions at the moment which isn't a problem for a no sound modeller like me. If you plug the 622 'handheld' in, this has 12 functions which can be ON/OFF or momentary. There are a few software bugs in the 505/511 software, but nothing too 'earth shattering' which can't be got round once you are familiar with it.

 

The new ZTC owner, Neil Kinison is expanding the ZTC range, and has committed to having the software rewritten to provide many more features (more functions is just one) as well as the odd bugs fixed.

 

Oh, and I'm not a ZTC shareholder !

[Tim Hale]

Personnally, I love the ZTC controller. Yes the 505 and 511 only have 8 functions at the moment which isn't a problem for a no sound modeller like me. If you plug the 622 'handheld' in, this has 12 functions which can be ON/OFF or momentary. There are a few software bugs in the 505/511 software, but nothing too 'earth shattering' which can't be got round once you are familiar with it.

 

The new ZTC owner, Neil Kinison is expanding the ZTC range, and has committed to having the software rewritten to provide many more features (more functions is just one) as well as the odd bugs fixed.

 

Oh, and I'm not a ZTC shareholder !

 

Fully support this comment and may I add that ZTC make truly excellent decoders.

 

Tim (Also a non-shareholder in ZTC but a satisfied user)

[Kris]

Whilst I love the feel of my 511 I would not buy one now unless it was very very cheap. Whilst the way you drive with it is great the flaky software and function limitations are real let downs. There are far better controllers on the market that you can do far more with. Once / if the software is updated I might change my mind about what I'm saying but until I see it I shall keep my advice.

[BrushType4]

Whilst I love the feel of my 511 I would not buy one now unless it was very very cheap. Whilst the way you drive with it is great the flaky software and function limitations are real let downs. There are far better controllers on the market that you can do far more with. Once / if the software is updated I might change my mind about what I'm saying but until I see it I shall keep my advice.

 

What is the nature of the software issues? What would you say is a good price?

[Combe Martin]

Mine is the 511, so my comments are related to that. One problem is associated with having the 622 handheld plugged in. If a loco is assigned to it, and you are 'paging' through the loco roster on the 511 to find the next loco you want to control with the 511 (rather than just keying it in), when you come to the loco thats 'owned' by the handheld, the display is a bit confusing. Once you have gone past this point, it's ok. It might not be a problem if you are using 2 digit addressing.

 

Another is related to having a full roster. If you try to delete a loco from it (it will hold 16) it leaves a rubbish loco number in that slot, so you then have to delete that.

[Trevellan]

I like my 505, but I've had a few problems with it, e.g. suddenly deciding not to read back CVs when asked. Also, the limited functions do make it a bit of a pain for sound-fitted models.

 

I firmly believe that the basic principles of the ZTC system were sound and I hope the new owner can improve both functionality and reliability.

[Combe Martin]

I like my 505, but I've had a few problems with it, e.g. suddenly deciding not to read back CVs when asked.

I've occasionally had this problem, but have always considered it to be a decoder problem rather than a controller problem. Eg, on a loco fitted with a Digitrax decoder I cant always read CV5, though it was ok originally. I can read all the other CVs on it ok, and I can read CV5 on any other make of decoder (apart from Hornby which dosn't have CV5).

 

Also, with ZTC decoders, the loco must be facing the 'right way round' on the programming track for both reading and writing CVs.

[Kris]

What is the nature of the software issues? What would you say is a good price?

 

Won't be able to reply in full until some point during the weekend, but others have already mentioned some of the problems. I also have run aways, loco lights reversing when the loco comes to a stop yet the direction of travel is not changed.

[Combe Martin]

I also have run aways.

I've never seen this with my 511. On odd occasions I've found I can't get control of a loco that's already running, and then found that it's 'finger' trouble (mine).

 

I did sometimes get this when I was using Zero1 (not with the ZTC controller), and it was always a faulty decoder when it got hot !

[two tone green]

The so called software update has been coming for years now. Just like the old ZTC, promises, promises, promises, nothing.

 

Too many bugs, too many problems to be avoided. And yes I have a 511 and it sits gathering dust as a door stop.

 

Limited use and very very over priced system. As it is a second hand set then anything over £50 I would stay away from it and put the money towards a system that is future proofed and grows as your needs grow. I cannot see the so called new owner, 2009 was it he took over, will update the firmware, software for a low price. There is just too many things to upgrade and very possibly require a new mother board which will really crank the upgrade price up. Its not like Lenz, Digitrax or ESU etc who have quite a large world wide user base and volume keeps cost down. ZTC is very limited in its user base and getting smaller as people get rid of it and buy a much better featured system that is of use to them. I would hazard a guess and say that the upgrade, bug fix will possibly cost more than a new feature rich system.

 

If you intend going O gauge with sound equipped locos then you will outgrow the 505 or 511 very quickly. In fact I would say the moment you open the box and get very annoyed with the bugs.

 

If you want to go DCC for any gauge, don't go ZTC. Even at the gauge O shows that I have been at, the ZTC stand is not very well supported.

 

Do a little more research on ZTC and then look at other systems. I think common sense may well prevail and you will make the right choice.

[MiDAS]

I was and still am very happy with the 511. moved on to ESU purely because of the lack of functions on sound use. The decoders, never had any problem and still have loco's fitted with 255's and separate sound decoders. I have kept one 511 as despite its all singing all dancing systems the ESU screws up a decoder on the odd occasion. The only way I have found to get into the decoder back into use then is via the 511. The only must is to isolate the layout when controller is switching on then all the so called run aways etc go away.

Terry

[pauliebanger]

I was and still am very happy with the 511. moved on to ESU purely because of the lack of functions on sound use. The decoders, never had any problem and still have loco's fitted with 255's and separate sound decoders. I have kept one 511 as despite its all singing all dancing systems the ESU screws up a decoder on the odd occasion. The only way I have found to get into the decoder back into use then is via the 511. The only must is to isolate the layout when controller is switching on then all the so called run aways etc go away.

Terry

 

Terry,

 

Can you use your 511 on the ECoS sniffer port? (As an additional cab)

 

Paul

[MiDAS]

In theory yes but I have never tried it the damn thing is to complicated now for an oldy like me

Terry

[Ron Ron Ron]

What would you say is a good price?

Once you take away the console driving controls, the DCC system itself is left for dead by any other system costing over £60.

It depends what value you put on the ZTC console and style of driving, but at the end of the day what lies underneath is very poor value for money.

 

.

[Combe Martin]

Once you take away the console driving controls, the DCC system itself is left for dead by any other system costing over £60.

It depends what value you put on the ZTC console and style of driving, but at the end of the day what lies underneath is very poor value for money..

Apart from only having 8 functions and them being ON/OFF on the 505/511, what other features are you referring to ?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Apart from only having 8 functions and them being ON/OFF on the 505/511, what other features are you referring to ?

The limited function range F0-8 shouldn't be underestimated.

Almost all systems, apart from a couple of very basic trainset systems, support a minimum of 21 (F0-20), with many supporting the full 29 (F0-28).

 

In fairness, the lack of non-latching function buttons, or the sometimes cumbersome multi-button actions needed are not unique to the ZTC system. This is often a weak area in throttle/cab design; however there are a number of systems that have a much better implementation of function operation.

It's almost ironic that the much maligned, entry level Dynamis system (costing around £85 or so), has one of the best implementations for function control on a modern handset. It beats several much better DCC systems in this regard, although some of the advanced systems now available have moved the game on even more.

 

What programming modes are supported?

What consisting methods are supported?

The well recorded "feature" and bugs?

 

Apart from the unique driving desk (which some may put a high value on), there are no features of this system that aren't available on systems costing far less.

In many cases, those other systems have a better or expanded implementation of those features. So unless the driving desk is of prime importance, the ZTC system can be equalled or bettered for less than one third of the cost.

 

There are niceties as well. Loco naming, although frowned upon by some (usually because they haven't used it) is becoming increasingly popular; although this really only comes into its own with modern screen based applications.

 

Don't get me wrong; I hope the new owner is able to bring about the changes needed to make his system competitive.

.

[Kris]

I would agree with what has been said about price. I would not pay more than £100 for a second hand system.

 

I think that most of the other issues have now been covered so I won't add more.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Apart from only having 8 functions and them being ON/OFF on the 505/511, what other features are you referring to ?

The whole concept of the ZTC control desk is really suited to operation of a single loco only. Try having any number more than one running and as it doesn't remember the speed settings of those already running , it applies whatever is set on the desk when a different running loco is called up. I can see why the driving desk control interface has an appeal to some folk, but unless operating a 'one engine in steam' line exclusively it is very limited.

 

Really the physical interface needs to be replaced by touch screen simulation. But I suspect the development cost to do that is prohibitive.

[Nigelcliffe]

The whole concept of the ZTC control desk is really suited to operation of a single loco only.....

 

Really the physical interface needs to be replaced by touch screen simulation. But I suspect the development cost to do that is prohibitive.

 

Roco announced such a system a few weeks ago. Due out in summer 2012. Price in the same ball park as a ZTC system.

 

 

- Nigel

[GoingUnderground]

I had a 505 and replaced it with an ECoS for all the reasons given above plus one - my 505 would never read any CV, not even on the ZTC decoders that I was using at the time. The driving desk, which was its main attraction proved to be its biggest weakness when you start trying to use it with more than one loco at once. Yes you can swap locos, but the throttle position after you swap bears no relationship the the speed of the new loco. That I could not live with.

 

There is one other limitation that hasn't been mentioned. It is unable to be used with Railcom as it doesn't generate the necessary "Cut-Out". So forget any ideas that you might have about using Railcom in the future with it.

 

If you can live with all these issues and can get it for less than £100 then it might, just, be worth buying. But I think you may live to regret it even at under £100 - I certainly did. Unless you are prepared to write off whatever the 505 costs you to "experience", I would urge you think again.

[craigwelsh]

Really the physical interface needs to be replaced by touch screen simulation. But I suspect the development cost to do that is prohibitive.

I don't think those who wanted the knobs and levers in the first place would like a touch screen.

 

Personally I love WiThrottle on the iPhone but some have complained at the lack of the physical buttons there.

 

Another option with the advanced systems coming along now is probably some form of PC Sim control desk via the pc being used to drive the model railway if people like those sorts of desk.

 

 

I had a 505 and replaced it with an ECoS for all the reasons given above plus one - my 505 would never read any CV, not even on the ZTC decoders that I was using at the time. The driving desk, which was its main attraction proved to be its biggest weakness when you start trying to use it with more than one loco at once. Yes you can swap locos, but the throttle position after you swap bears no relationship the the speed of the new loco. That I could not live with.

I thought the system gave you a period of time during loco change to move the handle to reflect the speed of the new loco?

 

When I used ZTC kit on an exhibition layout all the preset routes reset on me and out came the manual to put them back in again!

[OFFTHE RAILS]

The whole concept of the ZTC control desk is really suited to operation of a single loco only. Try having any number more than one running and as it doesn't remember the speed settings of those already running , it applies whatever is set on the desk when a different running loco is called up. I can see why the driving desk control interface has an appeal to some folk, but unless operating a 'one engine in steam' line exclusively it is very limited.

 

Really the physical interface needs to be replaced by touch screen simulation. But I suspect the development cost to do that is prohibitive.

The statement in the your first paragraph is not correct...... Have you owned or used a ZTC controller?

 

I use a ZTC 505 and, to double check before I posted a reply I have just run 4 locos on my test track and each could be controlled independently of the others (which do continue to run at the speed previously set). Four locos on a (largish) oval track was like juggling spinning plates but the ZTC505 responded perfectly.

Ian

[OFFTHE RAILS]

I had a 505 and replaced it with an ECoS for all the reasons given above plus one - my 505 would never read any CV, not even on the ZTC decoders that I was using at the time. The driving desk, which was its main attraction proved to be its biggest weakness when you start trying to use it with more than one loco at once. Yes you can swap locos, but the throttle position after you swap bears no relationship the the speed of the new loco. That I could not live with.

 

There is one other limitation that hasn't been mentioned. It is unable to be used with Railcom as it doesn't generate the necessary "Cut-Out". So forget any ideas that you might have about using Railcom in the future with it.

 

If you can live with all these issues and can get it for less than £100 then it might, just, be worth buying. But I think you may live to regret it even at under £100 - I certainly did. Unless you are prepared to write off whatever the 505 costs you to "experience", I would urge you think again.

 

 

My ZTC505 will read (and write) data from/to CVs on Hornby, Bachmann and TCS decoders and will control more than one loc OK - if yours didn't and I had paid £200+ I can't understand why you didn't get it fixed by the manufacturer?

Ian

[Combe Martin]

The whole concept of the ZTC control desk is really suited to operation of a single loco only. Try having any number more than one running and as it doesn't remember the speed settings of those already running , it applies whatever is set on the desk when a different running loco is called up. I can see why the driving desk control interface has an appeal to some folk, but unless operating a 'one engine in steam' line exclusively it is very limited.

This just isn't a problem. and what you are saying is only partially true and only when you switch the controller back to a loco that is already running. Any loco set running will carry on doing the same thing. Set another going and it will carry on doing it's own thing. etc, etc. If you switch the controller back to a loco that is already running, yes only then it starts to use the speed setting of what the regulator is set to, but only very very gradualy. When you do this it's normal to move the regulator to pick up control of the loco you switched back to which it does very smoothly, afterall, if you've switched back to a loco that's already running, it's because you want to take control of it.