Camden Shed

[92220]

Hi Stanley,

 

Lovely pictures, thanks. I've got almost all of them in some form or other, but always good to see. I'm actually pondering whether to model the ash plant during a failure. I do have a couple of pics of that - very evocative.

 

Yes, that list was just the immediate major jobs.......adding the rest would have crashed the RMWeb server!

 

I agree - so desperately sad about Geoff's untimely passing. He was unwaveringly kind, helpful and knowledgeable, and I always looked forward to catching up with him at a show. As soon as I'd met him once, he then always greeted me warmly, and not just because there was a very good chance I was about to buy some more stuff! The world is definitely a poorer place.

 

I hope I can, like hundreds of others, do his products justice. In future, I will certainly look at 92220, 46256, 44741, 44687, sundry other BR Standards and various LMS locos still to be built, plus many coaches, all of which owe a lot to various Comet components, and I will always remember Geoff looking at his watch and smiling as I arrived at a show late in the day, as usual.

 

A lovely man and a very sad loss.

 

Iain

[Black5]

Hi Iain,

 

           Great to see you back on the blog pages again. I know what you mean when you spoke

          

           about leaving the layout for a while, my break was trying to keep up with the garden through the summer.

          

           Now the evenings are drawing in and a visit to the local model railway exhibition re kindles the

 

           enthusiasm. I`ve attached a couple of pictures of recent progress on my Camden shed roof.

 

            Your pictures of your track ballast were of interest as i have always thought mine a bit on the coarse side,

 

            even using several different grades.

 

            Look forward to seeing more from you as time permits.

 

             Jim  (Black5).

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

both the coaling plant and ash plant were in reality straightforward and simple in operation, however to realistically model either one is a serious undertaking which over the years has always been a stumbling block. To get either the 'skip' or the wagon to move up and down without looking toylike is a real challenge and to date one which remains a unresolved for me.

Solid thoughts realised to date require:

1. that arrangement be operated through the baseboard (in that the whole thing lifts in and out)
2. that the skip, wagon hoist counter weights and wagon lifting cradle be heavily weighted to produce the realistic look
3. that the winding mechanism be located beneath the baseboard, but attached to the arrangement.
4. that the actual movement is achieved through a single driven continuous threaded rod attached to high grade cords which are attached to the skip and cradle (retractable ID card holder type nylon cord) the cords do not wind onto the rod or a drum, the rod moves up and down to create the movement.

Or maybe there were days when both the ash plant and coaling plant were broken !!

[92220]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that picture and well done on the shed and roof! That whole building needs to be planned and thought through for me. It spans the baseboard joint, and needs to be removable therefore. I'm yet not completely clear how I can do this without it looking as it it has simply been placed on top of the ash ballast, which will look poor.....

 

Hi Stanley,

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I was even contemplating having either coaler or ash plant operational! I did for a short moment think that having locos coming on shed with little coal and being fully coaled before idling in the yard would be a nice touch. In reality, a series of removable coal inserts for tenders may be the best way to achieve this for still photos only. It would certainly make sense for all locos on down trains to be very full, while all locos on up trains should be low on coal.

 

Same removable load principle perhaps applies to open wagons for ash removal?

 

What I really meant was to model the surrounds of the ash plant at a time when it had failed, so piles of ash everywhere, plus men shovelling into wagons etc

 

But thanks for the suggestions on how to make it operate, which confirm to me that I'm not capable in the time I have available!

 

Iain

[philbax]

From what I can see in photographs of the Ash tower at Camden the hoist would appear to be boxed in. I presume that this was to reduce dust generated when the skip was emptied, in the atmosphere due to the shed close proximity to housing

Philbax

[92220]

Hi Phil,

 

Yes, that's spot on.

It was originally open, but boxed in well before I am modelling. I've done most of the ash plant and the boxing, but it's not finished yet. I'm just debating whether to bother with the hoist mech inside that boxing. Beginning to err towards not!

 

Iain

[philbax]

Do you know when the ash plant was boxed in, I am aiming for 1947?

[92220]

I'm fairly sure it was after that, but will try to confirm.

Iain

[Black5]

Hi Iain,  for what it`s worth, my shed sits across a board joint as well. I drilled holes in each corner wall of the shed

 

and drilled and put four brass tube dowels in the baseboard lining up with said holes. I couldn`t do it any other way

 

as my layout has to be put up and taken down again every time i work on it. So far it`s worked, i just have to be careful when

 

lifting that i don`t damage the bottom edge of the cross beam.

 

Jim.

[Froxfield2012]

Good day, Iain

 

I am still following your progress and remain impressed!

 

I came across a couple of small prints the other day.  The scans aren't brilliant:  especially the one of Duke of Gloucester, which seems to be printed on a textured paper.  But I thought you might find them of interest.  Neither is dated but must be mid-to late 1950s.

 

Richard

 

 

[darren01]

Hi

Cracking photo's!, Do love this layout, Pity you can not get the young boy cleaners as models.

Keep up the good work and photo's coming.

Darren01

[Froxfield2012]

Yes, the cleaners are a feature aren't they?  And on reflection this probably indicates a slightly earlier date.  My father's first visit to Camden was in 1953.  I remember Camden as pretty filthy, even by late 1950s standards.  When my father first went there, a former top link driver called Harry Whitty (who had failed his routine eye test) was employed on light cleaning duties like sweeping up around the shed.  Although he continued to get us into the shed through the fifties and early 60s, he was finally retired and then there was no one.  All the talk of the ash plant reminded me that later Camden practice was to clear the smokebox of clinker out onto the top of the buffer beam and then just leave it there to blow away in the course of normal use!  Camden engines were often seen with a pile of ash/clinker on the  front, particularly around the shed.  Piles of implements for raking out were a common sight around the ash plant.

 

Richard

[1BCamden]

Yes, the cleaners are a feature aren't they?  And on reflection this probably indicates a slightly earlier date.  My father's first visit to Camden was in 1953.  I remember Camden as pretty filthy, even by late 1950s standards.  When my father first went there, a former top link driver called Harry Whitty (who had failed his routine eye test) was employed on light cleaning duties like sweeping up around the shed.  Although he continued to get us into the shed through the fifties and early 60s, he was finally retired and then there was no one.  All the talk of the ash plant reminded me that later Camden practice was to clear the smokebox of clinker out onto the top of the buffer beam and then just leave it there to blow away in the course of normal use!  Camden engines were often seen with a pile of ash/clinker on the  front, particularly around the shed.  Piles of implements for raking out were a common sight around the ash plant.

 

Richard

Hi Richard,

It was another world, and for some - it didn't end fast enough. My father never complained about it, during his time at 8A, it just got done.

During your visits did you ever get to see the outside wall along the running lines, I have worked out that it still had doors and windows, but were they still operational, or bricked up, anything would be of great help

 

best regards

Stanley

[Froxfield2012]

Sorry, Stanley

 

I don't remember that side of the shed at all.  I was once walked across the main lines to the goods shed side!  So that would have to go down as a missed opportunity to make an observation.  However, at the age of ten or so, I was more concerned with stepping over the electrified rails:  not to mention the main lines.  Blame Health and Safety in action for my failure to notice the shed wall!?

 

Frankly, I don't suppose that anyone at Camden in the fifties would have gone to the trouble of bricking anything up.  But I would lay odds that the windows would be opaque with dirt and grime (even if not whited out)?

 

Richard

[1BCamden]

Thanks Richard,

these two photos, one an enlarged crop of the other clearly shows one of the windows, one of a number of windows which are located either side of a number of double doors along this wall, interesting

Edited November 30, 2014 by 1BCamden

[92220]

Thank you to Stanley and Richard, both of whom have provided endless inspiration for me!

 

On p16 of this thread, post 389, I added a pic - a screen grab from a 1938 film "Sentinels of Safety" - which is the only even slightly clear outside view of part of the NE shed wall that I've found. It seems to show that at least the end part of that wall had no windows. Big buttress (?) arrangements too. In the BRILL feature there was a pic of the shed being demolished and the walls are really not very thin. I'm not worried about the SW wall - there are so many shots, almost none of which I can share, that show that wall clearly. Of course, I haven't got room to fit it in anyway, but that is another story: a compressed version of the shed will happen in time.

 

Iain

[1BCamden]

Good point trustytrev. That's how I located a couple of other books come to think of it...

I've been pondering the stop we've been discussing.

This pic:

image.jpg

which is just blown up from the previous one, seems to show the remnants of an older, normal sized stop?

Or am I mistaken?

Iain

Hi Iain,

I think this photo answers the question...

Edited December 8, 2014 by 1BCamden

[92220]

Thanks again Stanley - wonderful photo. It looks indeed as if it is the remains of a stop of some sort? Almost however I build it, I can cover things up with that messy pile of ballast/ash/clinker.

 

To be honest, I am having a bit of a struggle here at the moment. It seems that a lot of people go through ups and downs of motivation, and while I still enjoy building things in the shed, I haven't found it easy to get down to progressing the layout itself. There have been external factors - work has been unbelievably busy, and what spare time I have had has been used more for golf and fitness. With some positive impact too - I have managed to get back down from scratch to +1 handicap, and I am now close to being better than I was before the shoulder injury in late 2009.

 

We have just broken up for the Christmas break, and I have had half a day to contemplate and clear up in the shed. It was like an episode of Harry Potter in there with a spider population into 7 figures and their associated debris. But it did give me an opportunity to think carefully.

 

Bottom line - I think I now know that this will not be the final iteration of Camden Shed, and so my motivation to complete it is lower.

 

Why?

 

1. We are hoping to build a house in the next year or so. It will have a dedicated loft room of decent proportions, and I know what is going in there......

2. If I have a space that is not exactly 20'x12', I will definitely build a new layout. Even if the space is exactly that, I'm not sure how well this will dismantle and move, so I might build a new one anyway. I am quite set upon Camden Shed as a location for all the reasons stated earlier.

3. If I do build a new layout I would do several things differently to the way I've done them here. I might even build it with future exhibition in mind. For example, the baseboards would be lighter but more rigid.

4. Although I tested each turnout as I built it and when installed, getting them all to work universally well with a variety of stock is proving to be a challenge. They all still work well when tested with a 9F and 12 close-coupled mk1s. But I made the mistake of thinking that this would be the acid test with longest wheelbase loco and close coupling of coaches - in fact that seems to be the most sure-footed loco and rake I have! So I either have a lot of turnouts and track joins to fettle, and on a layout that might not reach adulthood, or I accept the learning from my mistakes and move on.

 

So I've now got a choice - either keep going with this in the knowledge that work done is at least in part going to be discarded but a development of my learning nonetheless, or pick jobs to do that will be transferable. That means locos, rolling stock and buildings that can be removable and reused if necessary. The compressed version of the shed building for example, is a big undertaking and if/when I build another version of Camden Shed, it would probably be less compressed, and therefore the shed itself not reusable. I could complete the ash plant, the coaler and the water tower, plus the rough stores and the Pembroke pub, as these are separate and to scale.

 

Not totally confused now, but always happy to be guided by wiser people than me.

 

Iain

[mark axlecounter]

Hi Iain just caught up with this now. Must say you have done a good job on the layout I to had hit a time where motivation was lossed due to life but one thing what has got me to do more was modifying locos and seeing what they could pull. And a wise bloke on here once said "its your life you have 1 hit at it so enjoy it ". It worked for me I'm building a L&Y class 27 and I want to see what the thing will pull on bucks lane.

Also your locos what you have done have imspired me to do some mods on mine.

Mark

Edited December 17, 2014 by mark axlecounter

[LNER4479]

Aw jeez Iain, that's a shame. Thought things had been a bit quiet...

 

Conventional wisdom on this site tends to work along the lines of 'If it don't feel right, don't plough on. Re-evaluate and - if necessary - rip up and start again'. I wouldn't disagree with that.

 

If it helps(!) the predecessor layout to Grantham I regarded very much as a 'practice' layout and much of what you see on Grantham is a result of having tried things out - with mixed results. Funnily enough, I'm just in the process of ripping parts of it up. A little heart-breaking(!) but it has served its purpose.

 

I think the shame with your project is that there was still 'more to come'. If you had got to the stage of locos coming on and off depot then you could have more fully proven the concept... but there you go. 

 

Based on what you say, the thing that jumps out at me is the issues you're having with your turnouts. My suggestion, therefore, is that you soldier on with trying to get that aspect to 'work' (as you don't want to repeat that with a new project) - if you're going to rip things up anyway then it won't matter too much if you wreck one or two of them in the process. If you're really brave, then you could even pop a video or two on here and I'm sure you'll get lots of helpful advice (honest!)

 

Hope that helps.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Iain,

 

keeping yourself motivated isn't always easy, especially when you are doing things that aren't your favourite pastime. I am trying to get one of the baseboards on London Road detailed (I can only work on  one at a time). It isn't easy to keep at it some days in a not very warm workshop, cleaning and painting white metal station bric a brac, making up barrows and trolleys, building a barrow crossing one plank at a time, etc. However it's got to be done and having exhibition deadlines gives an extra incentive, even though I would much rather be working on a loco or carriage kit. 

 

Take satisfaction from the superb work you have already done. You'll get the rest sorted too.

 

Jol

[gordon s]

Hi Iain, you have my sympathies as you know only too well. Great to read your golf has improved and it's totally natural to experience frustration as time goes on. I would just shut the door and forget all about it. One day you will wake up and the motivation will return one way or another. It might mean scrap the whole thing and start again or you may find your enthusiasm for the existing layout will return.

 

Either way, don't lose sleep on it and enjoy whatever you are doing.

 

If you do decide to continue and want some help with the turnouts, drop me a PM and we'll see what we can do. The golden rule is to get the wing rail/check rail and crossing right to the gauges and don't move it other than a last resort. Changes should be made to the outer rails and never the working bit in the middle or you will find that you get it working for one loco and then find none of the others work. Also check the B2B's before tweaking rails.....

 

Enjoy your Christmas holiday!

Edited December 17, 2014 by gordon s

[92220]

Thank you Gordon, Jol and Graham. Three people who have given me no end of help, wisdom and inspiration throughout, and for which I shall always be grateful.

 

I have done some re-evaluation and decided as follows........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to carry on with this version, even if it does get either altered or part-replaced when we move. I was never at the point of giving in completely, but I might have diverted my attention to building stock for a while - in fact I have done barely anything else for a few months now.

 

There really aren't too many problems with the turnouts.

Some of these issues were caused by my 'Tony Wright' coupling mechanisms being too close and causing buffer lock. The mechanism is good but my hamfisted measurements were not.

Some were caused by using a loco without checking the b2b.

Some were caused by the new Gibson-wheeled suburbans. The wheels are great, but the old Airfix/Dapol bogies are very flimsy and light. I think they will ride a lot better with a bit more weight.

Other issues are due to there being some imperfections in levels of the railhead at joins, either of boards or rails.

 

I think - perhaps with help(!) - that I can sort these out.

 

I spent 2 hours under the boards this afternoon finishing the wiring of the final 4 tortoises. Which doesn't look like the behaviour of someone ready to give up!

 

I also bought some storage drawers similar to Mike's on Dent, which will improve things too.

 

Thanks again everyone,

 

Iain

[Jol Wilkinson]

Iain,

 

I've just noticed Graham's reference to playing golf. Having seen what it's done to three long standing friends, I strongly recommend you should give it up immediately. I have never played and regard myself as normal as the next man. 

 

On second thoughts, having read some of the other topics on RMweb, I am not sure I want to be. 

 

Jol

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

Best wishes for Christmas, and the New Year,

 

Golf, is a priority, this gift you cannot set aside.

 

Modelling Railway is a journey, and for each modeller it is different, it is that persons journey to capture something for themselves alone, we share to understand and learn. Motivation can be inspired by others, knowledge, technology or importantly available time.

Each of us has differing priorities, golf, family, career, disposable income, which affect the scale of the model railway project. As for myself, time, available space and knowledge are the current challenges, so I work round these and fill in the other gaps (rolling stock, equipment, and track) waiting for the others to resolve themselves.

All the time however I am doing model railway for myself as an enjoyable escape, which I can choose to share or not. Currently I am (1) trying to work out "how does the shed coal train get onto and off of the shed, across the main running lines" and (2) "drawing back the curtain on the shed outside wall"

 

You have inspired many since at least February 2012, that you are a model railway enthusiast is enough, that you actually model them is great but only as you can enjoy it, and for nobody else.

 

ps golf to me is a black hole.

Edited December 20, 2014 by 1BCamden