southernelectric Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hi all, I recently acquired a Hornby A1-class Hornby Flying Scotsman, bit of an impulse buy off of eBay. The loco is brand new, separated from the current R1152 set. I wanted a bang-up-to-date model, but not the Railroad one! OK, so far so good...but bear with me here! I'm returning to this hobby after 25+ years and I've no idea what I'm talking about So I open the package and take the loco out...and what a beauty she is, super detailed and looking sooooo much better than the Hornby model I had as a kid. One of the first things I noticed were these little thin plastic bits gently touching the large middle wheel...difficult to explain...but it's been driving me absolutely NUTS! Just what are these things? I've noticed on the Hornby website, the NRM model of the (A3) Flying Scotsman appears to have these but what on earth are they? I checked this video out on YouTube and it appears to be the same model I have. At 3:00 you get to see the wheels close-up but I cannot see these little things that are touching the middle wheel! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzhheDJM0hY&feature=related Will someone PLEASE put me out of my misery and explain what they are - and if possible why are they missing from the model in the YouTube video - even though it appears to be the same loco that I own!!! In addition, there's this little packet of extras including some instructions and a DCC encoder protective insulator thingy. Brake rods. What are these? I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with these...or if I even need them? Again, please can someone put me out of my misery and explain!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingscotsmanfan Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hello, I'm honestly going to say that some pictures would help if you are able to take some. taknig a look at the Hornby website it would appear to me to be sandpipes which on a real loco would have helped with traction/wheelslip. and if your loco has these then taht would mean it is one bit of detailling you do not want to get rid of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The pack of parts are detailing pieces that collectors may want to fit, however a child won't be bothered about, they are normally small fiddley bits that would easily break in it's packaging. the DCC encoder cover is for if you fit a DCC encoder to help protect it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hello, I'm honestly going to say that some pictures would help if you are able to take some. taknig a look at the Hornby website it would appear to me to be sandpipes which on a real loco would have helped with traction/wheelslip. and if your loco has these then taht would mean it is one bit of detailling you do not want to get rid of. Thanks...nice name btw! Looking at the loco again this morning, yes it seems they are there on purpose but I couldn't figure out why the loco in the YouTube video doesn't have them yet it appears to be the same model as mine!. I'll see if I can get a couple of pics up on here over the weekend. I want to also figure out how to connect the tender as the instructions are useless on that front! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Search for some photos of the real locomotive. It's probably one of the most photoed locos on the planet. If you remember just the old model locos and not the real thing then you might want to invest in a book identifying the various parts of a steam loco. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 The pack of parts are detailing pieces that collectors may want to fit, however a child won't be bothered about, they are normally small fiddley bits that would easily break in it's packaging. the DCC encoder cover is for if you fit a DCC encoder to help protect it. Right, OK, the two really small fiddly bits make sense but I wasn't sure at all what to with the brake rod thing! The DCC encoder cover thing makes sense. With regards to getting this loco chipped...should I run it in with DC power for a while, before getting it converted to DCC operation? I will very soon have a Hornby Select DCC controller (as part of a VSOE DCC set that I'm getting) and although the controller has an analogue channel, I keep reading that DCC controllers shouldn't be used with analogue trains due to potential motor damage - even though it's possible on many of them - including the Hornby one I'm getting - to run a single analogue train. Any thoughts on that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Search for some photos of the real locomotive. It's probably one of the most photoed locos on the planet. If you remember just the old model locos and not the real thing then you might want to invest in a book identifying the various parts of a steam loco. Best, Pete. Thanks, yes I had been looking at Wikipedia and other places for pics of the real thing. The pic on the NRM site for their Flying Scotsman model (which I do realise is different to mine in a number of ways), does show that this model has them, and are in exactly the same place as mine, touching the middle wheel on the main chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2012 The apperance of brake rodding on todays models is the result of the masive jump in detail that came about when Hornby & Bachmann took the decision to signifficantly upgrade the quality of their models including the abandonment of tender drive units, more seperatley fitted detail such as lamp iron, handrails, etc as well as improved decoration. Brake rods front couplings and vacum hoses and front steps however have tended to come seperatly from the loco allowing the purchaser to fit them later if required. This is because front steps might not be compatable with 2nd radius curves, front couplings may not be required or the dummy representation of screw couplings and pipes may get in the way of a tension lock coupling. In the case of brake rodding, on the real thing its purpose is to force the brake shoes onto each driving wheel when the driver applies the brake. However, on models, it is fragile and locos may not fit back into the origional box with it fitted. That said brake rodding is relativley easy to fit but care should be taken when bending the brake shoes / hanger assemblys (by each driving wheel) outwards to fit it as too much preasure can snap them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailsbury Hall Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I tend not to fit the rodding underneath as, if a track pin works even slightly loose it can catch the rodding and cause a massive derailment. Items such as this are fine, in my opinion, for display but not totally practical for a working model. You can't see it anyway from normal viewing distance when the model is on the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks everyone for the replies...the confusion has been cleared up - for the most part anyway. I say this because the wheels in the YouTube video I linked to in my first post are different to my model, yet they both come from the same Hornby R1152 set! I think I will add the detailing parts minus the brake rod thing - point taken about it not being noticed anyway. What is interesting is that the little leaflet that came with the loco states that it is made to super-detailed standard - as also confirmed by the eBay seller i bought if from. It occurred to me that, even if I had purchased the whole set, which I didn't as the loco was sold to me on the 'Bay for £45 separated from the R1152 set - it would have cost less than what Hornby's super-detailed steam locos sell for on their own! I realise I am starting another topic here (!) but it does beg the question, if this loco - and others they include in sets - are made to super-detailed standard how come many Hornby sets are less expensive (or marginally more expensive) than their locos?! I would love to get a Mallard, but I don't want a "Hornby Railroad" green one, I want the blue LNER one. But that retails at over £150! Maybe selling sets is a loss-leader for Hornby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesparx Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If it's from the R1152 set, then it's unlikey the model you have is the Super Detailed example... I have had maybe half a dozen of these sets and the previous set which had three coaches - all the locos were basically Railroad examples, that is DCC ready with motor in the body but slightly cruder valve gear than appears on the Super Detail examples. Also, IIRC the Super Detail locos have painted cab detail.... Nothing wrong with the model, certainly when you can get the whole set for £70 - just sell on what you don't need, and you get a nice running A1/3 for very little. It's likely your Ebay seller has done just this... If it's really a super-detailed example, then frankly for £45 you've had a result my son ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks everyone for the replies...the confusion has been cleared up - for the most part anyway. I say this because the wheels in the YouTube video I linked to in my first post are different to my model, yet they both come from the same Hornby R1152 set! I think I will add the detailing parts minus the brake rod thing - point taken about it not being noticed anyway. What is interesting is that the little leaflet that came with the loco states that it is made to super-detailed standard - as also confirmed by the eBay seller i bought if from. It occurred to me that, even if I had purchased the whole set, which I didn't as the loco was sold to me on the 'Bay for £45 separated from the R1152 set - it would have cost less than what Hornby's super-detailed steam locos sell for on their own! I realise I am starting another topic here (!) but it does beg the question, if this loco - and others they include in sets - are made to super-detailed standard how come many Hornby sets are less expensive (or marginally more expensive) than their locos?! I would love to get a Mallard, but I don't want a "Hornby Railroad" green one, I want the blue LNER one. But that retails at over £150! Maybe selling sets is a loss-leader for Hornby? The Hornby Railroad A4 is not bad at all. If you want an LNER Garter Blue one, I can strongly recommend the Railroad version R2779 4484 Falcon http://www.Hornby.com/shop/locomotives/dcc-ready-locomotives/r2779-railroad-lner-falcon-class-a4-locomotive/. Although it's now out of stock at Hornby, you should still be able to find one in a shop somewhere. You could then renumber/name it to Mallard if you wanted. I got one for my young son and he loves it. Fitting a DCC decoder was easy too. As regards your more general comments about sets, Hornby is rather fickle in my view. Many include a mix of superdetailed and older (e.g. Railroad standard) models and it is not always clear from the advertising/packaging what you are going to get. So take care to check before buying. Personally I wish they wouldn't do it but stick to all super-detailed or all older tooling. But going down the all super-detailed route puts the price up and as a result I suppose they don't sell well enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just to add further confusion, I bought an Argos set a while ago and it was quite cheap at from memory around 150 quid, and has the super-detail 'Kingfisher' in LNER blue and three super-detail teak Gresleys. I hate to think what the RRP for these are separately! It certainly would be wise to check if anyone is trying to sell the Railroad versions at the price of super-detailed, and if someone does it the other way around, a lucky? buyer. On reading this thread there is certainly some confusion about the differences between super-detailed and 'Railroad' . For me, the valve gear is a giveaway on the Railroad Flying Scotsman, it's coarser, and Railroad version also lacks cab glazing and much cab detail. The Railroad A4 'Falcon' has good valve gear, but I think lacks some small detail around the front like lamp irons, and has a different tender to the super-detailed versions. I always like to fit the brake rods and other details on Hornby models, unless I intend to re-sell them after photographing them (my main pleasure)... and on my old layout which became deceased after the February 22 2011 earthquake in Christchurch NZ, I never had problems with track pins. For a long time Hornby were factory-fitting brake rods on A3s and A4s, but again this is patchy now. To sum up I think both Railroad and Standard models are good value, and am absolutely amazed at the quality of the super-detail versions, which photograph very very well. Very fragile though! Can't have it both ways. Taking 'Kingfisher' and the three Gresleys out of the Argos packaging without damage is an art form I am still practising! To Southernelectric, welcome back to the hobby! Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesparx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just to add further confusion, I bought an Argos set a while ago and it was quite cheap at from memory around 150 quid, and has the super-detail 'Kingfisher' in LNER blue and three super-detail teak Gresleys. I hate to think what the RRP for these are separately! Rob Blimey Rob, £150 quite cheap ? It's a nice set, but even when Argos had these on offer at £125 I resisted - I did actually see them on a '3 for 2' offer, that being £100 each, but didn't fancy the aggro of getting rid of the spare two... All these train packs do seem to come up on special offer quite often - my personal 'buy' point is £100 for super detailed examples, £80 for others ( £50 for the loco, £30 for coaches which I usually sell on ). As has been mentioned, what is sometimes advertised or pictured isn't always what is supplied 'in pack' - Argos pictured 'The Cunarder' with lighted Pullmans, but I believe the pack shipped with 'Railroad' examples...Buyer Beware ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Blimey Rob, £150 quite cheap ? It's a nice set, but even when Argos had these on offer at £125 I resisted - I did actually see them on a '3 for 2' offer, that being £100 each, but didn't fancy the aggro of getting rid of the spare two... All these train packs do seem to come up on special offer quite often - my personal 'buy' point is £100 for super detailed examples, £80 for others ( £50 for the loco, £30 for coaches which I usually sell on ). As has been mentioned, what is sometimes advertised or pictured isn't always what is supplied 'in pack' - Argos pictured 'The Cunarder' with lighted Pullmans, but I believe the pack shipped with 'Railroad' examples...Buyer Beware ! Fair enough. I guess I meant quite cheap compared to RRP for the engine alone which is over $315.00NZ or about UK155Pounds. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 If it's from the R1152 set, then it's unlikey the model you have is the Super Detailed example... I have had maybe half a dozen of these sets and the previous set which had three coaches - all the locos were basically Railroad examples, that is DCC ready with motor in the body but slightly cruder valve gear than appears on the Super Detail examples. Also, IIRC the Super Detail locos have painted cab detail.... Nothing wrong with the model, certainly when you can get the whole set for £70 - just sell on what you don't need, and you get a nice running A1/3 for very little. It's likely your Ebay seller has done just this... If it's really a super-detailed example, then frankly for £45 you've had a result my son ! The little instruction leaflet that came with the loco clearly states it's a super-detailed model And yes, it's most definitely from the R1152 set. It has those sandpipe things on the wheels that flyingscotsmanfan mentioned - which the Railroad model definitely does not have! I'll try and get some pics up on here at some point...but yes, £45 for the loco and £3.75 for a loco storage box from Transport Models of Preston and I think I got a result for sure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 The Hornby Railroad A4 is not bad at all. If you want an LNER Garter Blue one, I can strongly recommend the Railroad version R2779 4484 Falcon http://www.Hornby.co...-a4-locomotive/. Although it's now out of stock at Hornby, you should still be able to find one in a shop somewhere. You could then renumber/name it to Mallard if you wanted. I got one for my young son and he loves it. Fitting a DCC decoder was easy too. As regards your more general comments about sets, Hornby is rather fickle in my view. Many include a mix of superdetailed and older (e.g. Railroad standard) models and it is not always clear from the advertising/packaging what you are going to get. So take care to check before buying. Personally I wish they wouldn't do it but stick to all super-detailed or all older tooling. But going down the all super-detailed route puts the price up and as a result I suppose they don't sell well enough. I have my eye on a 2007 set on the 'Bay that has a blue Mallard in it. Appreciate the tip re the Falcon but I'm really not into attempting fiddly things like renaming and renumbering. I'm not very practical, and believe me that's an understatement and a half! I would probably...nay, most likely, ruin the thing trying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just to add further confusion, I bought an Argos set a while ago and it was quite cheap at from memory around 150 quid, and has the super-detail 'Kingfisher' in LNER blue and three super-detail teak Gresleys. I hate to think what the RRP for these are separately! It certainly would be wise to check if anyone is trying to sell the Railroad versions at the price of super-detailed, and if someone does it the other way around, a lucky? buyer. On reading this thread there is certainly some confusion about the differences between super-detailed and 'Railroad' . For me, the valve gear is a giveaway on the Railroad Flying Scotsman, it's coarser, and Railroad version also lacks cab glazing and much cab detail. The Railroad A4 'Falcon' has good valve gear, but I think lacks some small detail around the front like lamp irons, and has a different tender to the super-detailed versions. I always like to fit the brake rods and other details on Hornby models, unless I intend to re-sell them after photographing them (my main pleasure)... and on my old layout which became deceased after the February 22 2011 earthquake in Christchurch NZ, I never had problems with track pins. For a long time Hornby were factory-fitting brake rods on A3s and A4s, but again this is patchy now. To sum up I think both Railroad and Standard models are good value, and am absolutely amazed at the quality of the super-detail versions, which photograph very very well. Very fragile though! Can't have it both ways. Taking 'Kingfisher' and the three Gresleys out of the Argos packaging without damage is an art form I am still practising! To Southernelectric, welcome back to the hobby! Rob Sorry to hear about your layout getting demolished in the earthquake Thanks for the post and for welcoming me back to the wonderful world of model railways... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 So, as promised, a few photos of the loco. Taken with iPhone, so not the best...but you can see the sandpipe thingys between the first and second wheel of the 6-wheel section. This detailing is clearly missing from the YouTube video in my first post of this thread - even though it's from the same R1152 set. As I don't have a layout at the moment, I put it on a piece of track I have on a display shelf - hence you can see a (very dusty!) EFE London Underground train model and, behind that, a dusty Bachmann 4-CEP! Does this look like a super-detailed model to those who know these things far better than I do? Or is it a super-detailed 'set version', i.e. higher level of detail vs. Railroad but not as detailed as the individual loco would be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Please note - I haven't added the small detailing parts or the brake rods. Some more pics below: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains4U Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 What you have there is the Railroad version. It has DCC ready loco drive, but a plain cab, printed nameplates "flat" printing (No highlighting) to the numbers, simplified lining and the old tender drive tender moulding. The super detail model has much more in terms of separate detail parts and printing, and the tender mouldings are different with a hollow coal bunker with removable coal. Also, the thin plastic bits are definitely sand pipes. A super detail version can be seen HERE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 What you have there is the Railroad version. It has DCC ready loco drive, but a plain cab, printed nameplates "flat" printing (No highlighting) to the numbers, simplified lining and the old tender drive tender moulding. The super detail model has much more in terms of separate detail parts and printing, and the tender mouldings are different with a hollow coal bunker with removable coal. Also, the thin plastic bits are definitely sand pipes. A super detail version can be seen HERE Thanks for your post and for helping clear this up! BUT... it still doesn't explain why the instruction leaflet clearly states that the loco is made to super-detailed standard!!! Also...the sandpipe detail is clearly absent from the current 'Railroad' model and from the model shown in the YouTube video I posted - when it comes from same R1152 set as mine! As for the current super-detailed "NRM" model - as per the link you provided - I did look at that but I really don't like those smoke deflector things on the thing! The model I have now does remind me a little of the Tri-ang/Hornby model I had in the 1970s as a kid...but this is no doubt a far superior model. Now makes me wonder if the Clan Line loco in my VSOE DCC set is a 'Railroad' spec model? I'm really keen on the Hornby Evening Star 40th anniversary model when it comes - will this loco be 'Railroad' spec or super-detailed spec? The price point suggests the former, with a premium for the retro packaging...but I could be wrong of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The modern NRM black version has optional deflectors. I opted to leave mine off. Does the NRM Apple Green version come with them already attached, or as an extra in the box as per the black version? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 The modern NRM black version has optional deflectors. I opted to leave mine off. Does the NRM Apple Green version come with them already attached, or as an extra in the box as per the black version? I have no idea! Can someone confirm?...if it does have the option to remove them, I might well be tempted to lay down some hard-earned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks for your post and for helping clear this up! BUT... it still doesn't explain why the instruction leaflet clearly states that the loco is made to super-detailed standard!!! Also...the sandpipe detail is clearly absent from the current 'Railroad' model and from the model shown in the YouTube video I posted - when it comes from same R1152 set as mine! As for the current super-detailed "NRM" model - as per the link you provided - I did look at that but I really don't like those smoke deflector things on the thing! The model I have now does remind me a little of the Tri-ang/Hornby model I had in the 1970s as a kid...but this is no doubt a far superior model. Now makes me wonder if the Clan Line loco in my VSOE DCC set is a 'Railroad' spec model? I'm really keen on the Hornby Evening Star 40th anniversary model when it comes - will this loco be 'Railroad' spec or super-detailed spec? The price point suggests the former, with a premium for the retro packaging...but I could be wrong of course The 'Clan Line' loco in the VSOE set is a super-detailed version first produced around 2000, a very good model but not quite as brilliant as later super-detail models of other locos... it's still a fantastic model.. The 'Evening Star' model you mention will be a Railroad version. Hornby don't make a super-detail 9F, Bachmann do. The Hornby model is pretty good. The Hornby 'Flying Scotsman' Gresley A1/3s which cause so much confusion are in two main types; Railroad versions which were tender drive from 1998 to 2007, and loco drive after that, and a super-detail version started in 2005, which is the more expensive and highly detailed version, there are about 20 versions of the latter, and about 20 versions of the older tender drive versions (which were until 2007 the standard Hornby model), and three (edit; 5 or 6) loco drive Railroad-spec 'Flying Scotsman' versions: R2675 (sold on its own 2007-11) R1072 (round dome, corridor tender, ex set 2007-10) and R1152 (banjo dome, standard tender, ex set ? 2011) (source, Ramsays Guide 7th Ed.) and (edit) R2974M 'Legend Series' limited edition round dome corridor tender, and has sand pipes in front of middle driving wheel ... with special box 64 quid at one well known big retailer. also R3086 round dome, corridor tender, no sand pipes, same price as above. soon to come R1167 Flying Scotsman engine and three carriages, trainpack, Railroad Range. There may have been production mixes in the last couple of years, but I doubt the super-detailed version was in a Flying Scotsman set. If the leaflet says 'super-detailed', it is the wrong leaflet (not unknown!) In fact they might have put a super-detailed leaflet in because the old tender-drive mechanism leaflet was unsuitable, and the loco-drive Railroad version is similar to the super-detail version in its mechanism if not every detail. Production of the models often involves slight changes, additions, parts like sand pipes and brake rods are factory fitted sometimes, sometimes in accessory packs. Presumably production is in quite limited numbers and changes do occur at the factory from time to time. Looks like some of the detail like sand pipes has been applied to some recent Railroad versions But the clear thing is that the Railroad versions of A1 or A3 do not have glazed windows or lamp irons on the front, fine valve gear and instruments in the cab, and the more open coal bunker in the tender. They are all great models, and in my opinion and that of many others, the super-detailed A3 by Hornby is one of the finest British 00 RTR models ever made. The Railroad version with loco drive and the extra details you have is also an excellent model. The smoke deflector version in the link from a previous contributor is a super-detail model. Confusing, but lot's of fun. And I apologise if I got any details wrong... it's a hornet's nest, this detail! Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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